Dog Lovers: Fiona Apple cancels tour to be with her dying dog

[bbb]

Yes on the homeowners numbers. Some policies ban certain breeds

 

. I know dade county/Miami had a pitbull ban and buhrle had a problem when he got traded to Miami. Stories like the poojer just told apply to most pitbulls I know.

 

It's the pitbulls you don't know that are the trouble...

 

And saying MOST pitbulls you know. I'm sure it's only a few that are the problem, but they are so powerful that when there is a problem, it's really bad!

 

Isn't that the issue? There's probably the same percent of bad dogs as other breeds, but these are just so powerful and unrelenting.

[NoSaint]

 

 

It's the pitbulls you don't know that are the trouble...

 

And saying MOST pitbulls you know. I'm sure it's only a few that are the problem, but they are so powerful that when there is a problem, it's really bad!

 

Isn't that the issue? There's probably the same percent of bad dogs as other breeds, but these are just so powerful and unrelenting.

 

even as a fan of the breed, id guess that the ownership composition at this point lends itself to probably increased volume of trouble, while as you mentioned the breed itself being such a specimen makes it worse when that trouble arises.

 

i definitely treat all strange dogs with a healthy respect, but am especially cautious with pits. in the end, i dont expect anything to happen as the numbers say im probably more likely to get struck by lightning and die but even as a huge fan of the breed i know to be a bit more judicious around them

 

that said, i still think theres got to be a better answer than BSL.

[Frez]

I own 2 awesome dogs. One is a rescue dog from the shelter, his name is Odie. Odie is an amazing,smart,loyal dog that I love dearly. Odie is part beagle/jack russel and something else! We also own a 14 year old mixed lab and her name is Brooke. Brooke is a good girl and I'm sad to see her fading a little over time. I love my dogs more than anything. I'm a huge dog lover. That being said I'd like to be really honest about the dog breed Pit-Bulls. I don't think I would ever own one. To me the breed is just to strong and powerful for a human to control if something ever happened. I'll be very honest about, I'm a little intimidated about the breed. I have read all the stories so far on how great of a dog they really are and how they make a wonderful pet. The breed is just not for me. My wife is a Dog Control Officer and I have heard many unfortunate stories re guarding a pit-bull attack or bite. I love dogs but the pit thing is just not for me, way to risky if you ask me.

[apuszczalowski]

It's the pitbulls you don't know that are the trouble...

 

And saying MOST pitbulls you know. I'm sure it's only a few that are the problem, but they are so powerful that when there is a problem, it's really bad!

 

Isn't that the issue? There's probably the same percent of bad dogs as other breeds, but these are just so powerful and unrelenting.

That is typically the issue most places have with them. They are an animal, and one that has the potential to be very dangerous because of its strength and build. If they get protective, or bite/attack, they will do much more damage then say a Shitzu or even a Lab.

 

I knew someone a few years ago with a Pit bull and (IIRC) a Bull dog, both had incredible strength, and he would talk about what the dogs could do while playing out in the yard with toys or even trees. The strength they had was incredible, and both were like many have said, the sweetest, most gentle dogs around the house

 

I would be that a large group Pit Bull Owners can handle the bigger responsibilities of handling a dog with the potential of a Pit Bull, but the problem is that theres also a large group that think they can, or don't care if they can because they just want one for the "street cred"/status of looking tougher by having a dog like that. And its like they always say, It only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'm sure most pit bulls are great, but it's these stats that concern people:

 

31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 650 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3

 

I'm actually very familiar with this "stat" you just posted, and I would bet you got it directly from DogsBite.org or from a site that links to it.

 

Besides the fact that DogsBite.org is extremely prejudice towards Pit Bulls, it is skewed and inaccurate for a lot of different reasons.

 

This article from StubbyDog.org dives a bit more into the original statistic and report which you posted: http://stubbydog.org...by-the-numbers/

 

I'm not arguing that no Pit Bulls are dangerous. All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, and no breed is entirely perfect. Couple that fact with Pit Bulls having the physical traits that allow them to do a lot of damage AND that they are the dog of choice for most douchebag tough guys, and it's bad news for the Pits.

 

However, unbiased studies performed in a clinical method show time and again that Pit Bulls are not inherently aggressive or dangerous to humans.

 

Now, if you want to take an objective, scientific look at all breeds and their temperaments, you go to the ATTS (American Temperament Test Society)

 

The ATTS has been conducting tests and gathering information on all breeds since 1977. They put each dog/breed through the same exact test (more details on the test found here).

 

The general dog population average on the ATTS test is 82.8% passing. With 839 Pits tested, the American Pit Bull scores an 86.8%. Not only much better than the average, but better than such popular family dogs such as Golden Retrievers (85.2%), Pembroke Welsh Corgis (78.3%), Weimaraners (80.6%), Chihuahuas (68.3%), and Collies (80.1%).

 

Additionally the American Staffordshire Terrier, which is often mixed in with most Pits, scores an 84.2%. Still above the average and right in range with most "family" dogs.

 

You can find the complete listing of results for all breeds on the ATTS page I linked above.

 

This article from the Examiner on Pit Bull temperament puts it best: http://www.examiner....-dog-population

Pit bulls are actually bred to be affectionate towards people. They have been bred for hundreds of years for strength, agility, high pain tolerance and absence of aggression toward humans. Pit bulls are extremely intelligent dogs and take their cues from the humans who raise them.

 

 

EDIT: I just clicked on the links in bbb's post and see that they do in fact go to DogBites.org! Called it!

Edited November 23, 2012 by DrDareustein

[DrDawkinstein]

I own 2 awesome dogs. One is a rescue dog from the shelter, his name is Odie. Odie is an amazing,smart,loyal dog that I love dearly. Odie is part beagle/jack russel and something else! We also own a 14 year old mixed lab and her name is Brooke. Brooke is a good girl and I'm sad to see her fading a little over time. I love my dogs more than anything. I'm a huge dog lover. That being said I'd like to be really honest about the dog breed Pit-Bulls. I don't think I would ever own one. To me the breed is just to strong and powerful for a human to control if something ever happened. I'll be very honest about, I'm a little intimidated about the breed. I have read all the stories so far on how great of a dog they really are and how they make a wonderful pet. The breed is just not for me. My wife is a Dog Control Officer and I have heard many unfortunate stories re guarding a pit-bull attack or bite. I love dogs but the pit thing is just not for me, way to risky if you ask me.

 

This is a completely acceptable and honorable stance. If more people were as honest with themselves as far as limits and wants, we wouldn't have such a huge problem facing the breed. You are correct that they are very strong and can pose a problem if the owner can not handle them. Unfortunately, they have become the Fashion Accessory of choice for morons who are trying to overcompensate. They think having a tough, mean dog makes them tough and respected.

 

Most of these idiots are the same type of people that shouldn't own guns, but do. They don't really know how to handle them, or store them safely, or keep others out of harms way. But boy do they feel tough waving them around.

 

By not properly caring for the dog, all they are doing is loading the gun with bullets and waving it around at the general public.

 

But this is a problem that has jumped from breed to breed, depending on which breed is "trendy". There is a great Cesar Millan quote on this:

 

Edited November 23, 2012 by DrDareustein

[NoSaint]

 

 

This is a completely acceptable and honorable stance. If more people were as honest with themselves as far as limits and wants, we wouldn't have such a huge problem facing the breed. You are correct that they are very strong and can pose a problem if the owner can not handle them. Unfortunately, they have become the Fashion Accessory of choice for morons who are trying to overcompensate. They think having a tough, mean dog makes them tough and respected.

 

Most of these idiots are the same type of people that shouldn't own guns, but do. They don't really know how to handle them, or store them safely, or keep others out of harms way. But boy do they feel tough waving them around.

 

By not properly caring for the dog, all they are doing is loading the gun with bullets and waving it around at the general public.

 

But this is a problem that has jumped from breed to breed, depending on which breed is "trendy". There is a great Cesar Millan quote on this:

 

 

bravo.

 

and like i said before, im not sure how to fix the problem. i often find myself walking down the same debate with gun control. replace a couple words and the conversations would almost be identical for me.

[Frez]

This is Odie. Did I forget to mention that he LOVES BEER!

 

[bbb]

I'm actually very familiar with this "stat" you just posted, and I would bet you got it directly from DogsBite.org or from a site that links to it.

 

Besides the fact that DogsBite.org is extremely prejudice towards Pit Bulls, it is skewed and inaccurate for a lot of different reasons.

 

This article from StubbyDog.org dives a bit more into the original statistic and report which you posted: http://stubbydog.org...by-the-numbers/

 

I'm not arguing that no Pit Bulls are dangerous. All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, and no breed is entirely perfect. Couple that fact with Pit Bulls having the physical traits that allow them to do a lot of damage AND that they are the dog of choice for most douchebag tough guys, and it's bad news for the Pits.

 

However, unbiased studies performed in a clinical method show time and again that Pit Bulls are not inherently aggressive or dangerous to humans.

 

Now, if you want to take an objective, scientific look at all breeds and their temperaments, you go to the ATTS (American Temperament Test Society)

 

The ATTS has been conducting tests and gathering information on all breeds since 1977. They put each dog/breed through the same exact test (more details on the test found here).

 

The general dog population average on the ATTS test is 82.8% passing. With 839 Pits tested, the American Pit Bull scores an 86.8%. Not only much better than the average, but better than such popular family dogs such as Golden Retrievers (85.2%), Pembroke Welsh Corgis (78.3%), Weimaraners (80.6%), Chihuahuas (68.3%), and Collies (80.1%).

 

Additionally the American Staffordshire Terrier, which is often mixed in with most Pits, scores an 84.2%. Still above the average and right in range with most "family" dogs.

 

You can find the complete listing of results for all breeds on the ATTS page I linked above.

 

This article from the Examiner on Pit Bull temperament puts it best: http://www.examiner....-dog-population

 

 

 

EDIT: I just clicked on the links in bbb's post and see that they do in fact go to DogBites.org! Called it!

 

It was the first thing that came up in a google search.

 

You said the deal right here:

 

I'm not arguing that no Pit Bulls are dangerous. All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, and no breed is entirely perfect. Couple that fact with Pit Bulls having the physical traits that allow them to do a lot of damage AND that they are the dog of choice for most douchebag tough guys, and it's bad news for the Pits.

 

OJ was the nicest guy in the world 99.99% of the time. My all time hero........But, then he lopped a few heads when he went off at a bad time.

 

No Saint makes a great analogy to guns.

[DrDawkinstein]

It was the first thing that came up in a google search.

 

You said the deal right here:

 

I'm not arguing that no Pit Bulls are dangerous. All dogs have the potential to be dangerous, and no breed is entirely perfect. Couple that fact with Pit Bulls having the physical traits that allow them to do a lot of damage AND that they are the dog of choice for most douchebag tough guys, and it's bad news for the Pits.

 

OJ was the nicest guy in the world 99.99% of the time. My all time hero........But, then he lopped a few heads when he went off at a bad time.

 

No Saint makes a great analogy to guns.

 

Yeah man, Im not necessarily arguing in direct opposition of you, and I figured it was just the first thing that came up because I see it used on a lot of anti-Pit websites. That's why I recognized it. Wasn't picking on you. But like any statistics, some of the popular numbers that get thrown around are a bit twisted to give a false impression.

 

When Pit Bulls are involved in an incident, the damage can be much worse than if a Cocker Spaniel went after you. However, a properly trained Pit Bull is no more likely to attack than any other dog breed. Actually, much less so.

 

That stat also says Pits make up less than 5% of the dog population. That is arguable as no real population stats can be kept. There are reports that estimate it between 5% and 9%. Additionally, when they state it as "despite only making up less than 5% of the population", it is a bit misleading. When you think about it, that means that somewhere around 1 in 20 dogs is a Pit. There are far more than 20 breeds, which actually means Pits have a majority share of the dog population. Much, much higher than breeds like Rottweilers, Dobermans, Chows, etc.

 

When you do the rest of the math comparing the number of incidents against the actual population, you see that the ratio of existing dogs to attacks is actually lowest for Pit Bulls.

 

They are incredibly and horribly over-bred. The vast majority of shelter populations are Pit Bulls. Scumbags use them to breed like machines and then dump them. So it's no surprise that a muscular, hyper dog which is vastly under cared for would lead in the attack category. Again, not the breed's fault. It is mankind's fault. Every attack is somebody's fault, not the dog's fault. Even in cases where the dog is aggressive, the idiot owner should understand that and not leave small children unattended, etc.

 

Dogs only know what they are taught. They do not know the difference between right and wrong outside of what they are taught is right and wrong. Most would not exist if not for the direct will of man. We make them (all dog breeds), they are our responsibility.

Edited November 24, 2012 by DrDareustein

[inkman]

Man you guys love your dogs. Fifty posts into the thread and not one 'dogging' or 'doggy style' post about Fiona. Mature and tasteful. What's this place coming to!!

[Maury Ballstein]

Pretty impressive indeed inkman

 

I'd give her the buisness fa sho.

[bbb]

Yeah man, Im not necessarily arguing in direct opposition of you, and I figured it was just the first thing that came up because I see it used on a lot of anti-Pit websites. That's why I recognized it. Wasn't picking on you. But like any statistics, some of the popular numbers that get thrown around are a bit twisted to give a false impression.

 

When Pit Bulls are involved in an incident, the damage can be much worse than if a Cocker Spaniel went after you. However, a properly trained Pit Bull is no more likely to attack than any other dog breed. Actually, much less so.

 

That stat also says Pits make up less than 5% of the dog population. That is arguable as no real population stats can be kept. There are reports that estimate it between 5% and 9%. Additionally, when they state it as "despite only making up less than 5% of the population", it is a bit misleading. When you think about it, that means that somewhere around 1 in 20 dogs is a Pit. There are far more than 20 breeds, which actually means Pits have a majority share of the dog population. Much, much higher than breeds like Rottweilers, Dobermans, Chows, etc.

 

When you do the rest of the math comparing the number of incidents against the actual population, you see that the ratio of existing dogs to attacks is actually lowest for Pit Bulls.

 

They are incredibly and horribly over-bred. The vast majority of shelter populations are Pit Bulls. Scumbags use them to breed like machines and then dump them. So it's no surprise that a muscular, hyper dog which is vastly under cared for would lead in the attack category. Again, not the breed's fault. It is mankind's fault. Every attack is somebody's fault, not the dog's fault. Even in cases where the dog is aggressive, the idiot owner should understand that and not leave small children unattended, etc.

 

Dogs only know what they are taught. They do not know the difference between right and wrong outside of what they are taught is right and wrong. Most would not exist if not for the direct will of man. We make them (all dog breeds), they are our responsibility.

 

Thanks for all the good info. I think we're pretty much on the same page. I don't really have any answers. I just don't like anecdotal evidence of "my pit bull is so sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly" can't of stuff. Because they are obviously physically capable of much damage.

 

My secretary has two pitbulls and says how they sweet there are. Except that she was mad at THEM the two times this year that they ran out the open gate as soon as they had a chance. They ended up two towns over! It's not her fault for leaving the gate open. It's their fault for wanting to run out after she does all this caring for them!...............Can you imagine seeing those two running towards you down the street!

[UConn James]

 

 

Thanks for all the good info. I think we're pretty much on the same page. I don't really have any answers. I just don't like anecdotal evidence of "my pit bull is so sweet and wouldn't hurt a fly" can't of stuff. Because they are obviously physically capable of much damage.

 

My secretary has two pitbulls and says how they sweet there are. Except that she was mad at THEM the two times this year that they ran out the open gate as soon as they had a chance. They ended up two towns over! It's not her fault for leaving the gate open. It's their fault for wanting to run out after she does all this caring for them!...............Can you imagine seeing those two running towards you down the street!

 

My brother's gf's pit is a gentle giant of a pit.

 

But I also got that from the owner of one who did a number on my left hand and on my pup's chest/throat last year.

 

Until you've been on the business end of a pit bull attack, I'm just this side of saying a big STFU to near-unequivocal defenders who hide behind statistics. My dad was an ACO for 25 years and I did plenty of ride-alongs. All dogs can bite. I get that. Some breeds don't let go. The severity of attacks is concerning.

 

And kudos to FA. That's not a very difficult choice if you've got coin and can afford to do it.

 

The ending of "Charlotte's Web" always haunted me a bit. A friend should never die alone.

[bbb]

There is some speculation that it's a cover up for slow ticket sales. I can't imagine her doing this if it the tour was gangbusters. If it was, can you imagine being somebody in the band, etc. who needs the money?

 

How would you feel if CJ Spiller said he's skipping all games until his dog dies?

[The Poojer]

I didn't want to be 'that guy' but my initial reaction was it had to do more with her recent drug arrest and was trying to spin it in her favor..

 

There is some speculation that it's a cover up for slow ticket sales. I can't imagine her doing this if it the tour was gangbusters. If it was, can you imagine being somebody in the band, etc. who needs the money?

 

How would you feel if CJ Spiller said he's skipping all games until his dog dies?

[bbb]

I guess I'm that guy.

[The Poojer]

i am 'that guy that waits for that guy so as to not be that guy'....

 

I guess I'm that guy.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Pit bulls are the ugliest dogs on earth. Why someone would get one is beyond me.

[bbb]

Because they are the sweetest little doggies on earth.