mjt328 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 i mostly agree but.... i find it hard to believe for example that Eli manning is much better than Fitz. If he is better, he's only marginally better. To me that means the Bills could be competitive with a Solid defense, better coaching on both sides of the ball and maybe another good receiver. Why is it so hard to believe that Eli Manning is better than Fitz? Because Fitz puts up decent stats? One of the biggest problems with statistics is that they can be SO MISLEADING. For example, a player may have a great completion percentage. Just looking at those numbers on paper, a person may assume that high completion percentage = accuracy. But that number doesn't take into account how many passes were short, medium or long. It doesn't take into account receivers dropping passes or making great plays. It doesn't take into account the kind of defense the quarterback was playing, or the situation. It doesn't take into account offensive line play or pressure. Since taking over as the starter in Buffalo, Fitz has put up good numbers - no doubt. Probably on par with guys like Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco, Matt Shaub - and a number of guys talked about frequently on this board. But when you actually watch Fitz play week after week, season after season - you will find there are serious issues in his game. Probably the most visible problem with Fitz is his deep ball accuracy. This weakness makes things really difficult for the rest of the offense, since most opponents play the Bills receivers very close to the line. Of course, that weak point doesn't always show up on the stat sheet, because most of our passes are screens, slants and quick hits. But Fitz also has big problems in his short game accuracy. How many times do you see a quick slant to Stevie Johnson or Donald Jones, where the receiver is forced to dive to the ground to make the catch? That shows up on the stat sheet as a 6-7 yard completion. What people miss - is that if Fitz could hit the receiver in stride - it could be a 20-30 yard completion... maybe even a touchdown. Sometimes I wonder if any of you watch other teams, or just talk about them without knowing the least bit about what is actually going on. I often think the same thing when reading posts. Last week, people were comparing Fitz to Flacco and Shaub. This week it's Rivers. These guys might be equals in fantasy football, but in real life - not so much.
BuffBill Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 I would also take him in a minute if he were available. I don't think he will be. You are probably correct, but it was mentioned on their game this past weekend that ownership is ready to implode the whole team from top to bottom if they don't get it turned around, and it doesn't look like that is going to happen.
PromoTheRobot Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Why is it so hard to believe that Eli Manning is better than Fitz? Because Fitz puts up decent stats? One of the biggest problems with statistics is that they can be SO MISLEADING. For example, a player may have a great completion percentage. Just looking at those numbers on paper, a person may assume that high completion percentage = accuracy. But that number doesn't take into account how many passes were short, medium or long. It doesn't take into account receivers dropping passes or making great plays. It doesn't take into account the kind of defense the quarterback was playing, or the situation. It doesn't take into account offensive line play or pressure. Since taking over as the starter in Buffalo, Fitz has put up good numbers - no doubt. Probably on par with guys like Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco, Matt Shaub - and a number of guys talked about frequently on this board. But when you actually watch Fitz play week after week, season after season - you will find there are serious issues in his game. Probably the most visible problem with Fitz is his deep ball accuracy. This weakness makes things really difficult for the rest of the offense, since most opponents play the Bills receivers very close to the line. Of course, that weak point doesn't always show up on the stat sheet, because most of our passes are screens, slants and quick hits. But Fitz also has big problems in his short game accuracy. How many times do you see a quick slant to Stevie Johnson or Donald Jones, where the receiver is forced to dive to the ground to make the catch? That shows up on the stat sheet as a 6-7 yard completion. What people miss - is that if Fitz could hit the receiver in stride - it could be a 20-30 yard completion... maybe even a touchdown. I often think the same thing when reading posts. Last week, people were comparing Fitz to Flacco and Shaub. This week it's Rivers. These guys might be equals in fantasy football, but in real life - not so much. If you watched every NFL QB like we watch Fitz you'd find plenty of issues. But because he's our guy and we aren't winning we hate him all the more. PTR Edited November 20, 2012 by PromoTheRobot
BuffBill Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Why is it so hard to believe that Eli Manning is better than Fitz? Because Fitz puts up decent stats? One of the biggest problems with statistics is that they can be SO MISLEADING. For example, a player may have a great completion percentage. Just looking at those numbers on paper, a person may assume that high completion percentage = accuracy. But that number doesn't take into account how many passes were short, medium or long. It doesn't take into account receivers dropping passes or making great plays. It doesn't take into account the kind of defense the quarterback was playing, or the situation. It doesn't take into account offensive line play or pressure. Since taking over as the starter in Buffalo, Fitz has put up good numbers - no doubt. Probably on par with guys like Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco, Matt Shaub - and a number of guys talked about frequently on this board. But when you actually watch Fitz play week after week, season after season - you will find there are serious issues in his game. Probably the most visible problem with Fitz is his deep ball accuracy. This weakness makes things really difficult for the rest of the offense, since most opponents play the Bills receivers very close to the line. Of course, that weak point doesn't always show up on the stat sheet, because most of our passes are screens, slants and quick hits. But Fitz also has big problems in his short game accuracy. How many times do you see a quick slant to Stevie Johnson or Donald Jones, where the receiver is forced to dive to the ground to make the catch? That shows up on the stat sheet as a 6-7 yard completion. What people miss - is that if Fitz could hit the receiver in stride - it could be a 20-30 yard completion... maybe even a touchdown. I often think the same thing when reading posts. Last week, people were comparing Fitz to Flacco and Shaub. This week it's Rivers. These guys might be equals in fantasy football, but in real life - not so much. You are 100% correct. Stats are for people who don't watch the games, and furthermore don't know much about football to begin with. The biggest difference between Fitz and Eli Manning (among many) is that when the game is on the line, Eli usually comes through for his team. In the same situations is when Fitz plays his worst football, and normally loses the game for his team. Huge, huge difference. Edited November 20, 2012 by BuffBill
MDH Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 If you watched every NFL QB like we watch Fitz you'd find plenty of issues. But because he's our guy and we aren't winning we hate him all the more. PTR I was going to say the same thing. We watch Fitz every snap of the season and then a game or two of the other guys and a bunch of highlight shows (where there are no incompletions.) Even when you watch those guys you don't get irritated by every mistake and hence they aren't magnified like they are when you're rooting for your team. Every QB misses open guys, every QB has bad throws that get caught by the WR who has to make adjustments which cost him YAC. I will say that I agree with the poster who said that the D gets to cheat up on the Bills because their lack of a deep threat but I blame that mostly on Gaily. Whether Fitz is great at the deep throw or not you have to chuck it up a few times a game to keep the D honest.
mjt328 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 If you watched every NFL QB like we watch Fitz you'd find plenty of issues. But because he's our guy and we aren't winning we hate him all the more. PTR I just don't get it. Just because other quarterbacks have flaws, doesn't mean Fitz is anywhere on their level. I've asked this question before: What does Fitz consistently do well? In 8 NFL seasons, what has he shown on the football field that would make you believe he's a reliable starter? I can answer that question for Manning, Rivers, Schaub, Flacco. I can't for Fitz.
Adam Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Rivers would be elite if not for a coach who is only in the league because he once haid Aikman, Smith, Irvin, Novacek..........
Rob's House Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Last week, people were comparing Fitz to Flacco and Shaub. This week it's Rivers. These guys might be equals in fantasy football, but in real life - not so much. The only thing Flacco has on Fitz is arm strength. I've watched a few Ravens games, and sometimes he's on, but he has a lot of games where he's missing open receivers just like Fitz was when he was slumping earlier in the year. If you watched every NFL QB like we watch Fitz you'd find plenty of issues. But because he's our guy and we aren't winning we hate him all the more. PTR That's the damn truth. Our last game v Pats proves that. You'd think the 2 min drill is a given for other QBs. Maybe it just feels that way b/c that's how it's been for the QBs facing our Swiss cheese D for the last few years.
BuffBill Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 The only thing Flacco has on Fitz is arm strength. I've watched a few Ravens games, and sometimes he's on, but he has a lot of games where he's missing open receivers just like Fitz was when he was slumping earlier in the year. That's the damn truth. Our last game v Pats proves that. You'd think the 2 min drill is a given for other QBs. Maybe it just feels that way b/c that's how it's been for the QBs facing our Swiss cheese D for the last few years. Arm strength is big in the NFL too, that is the one thing that makes this offense predictable is there is no downfield threat, because Fitz can't throw downfield-at all. One other thing that is different too is Flacco is a winner, Fitz-not so much.
Best Player Available Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 The only thing Flacco has on Fitz is arm strength. I've watched a few Ravens games, and sometimes he's on, but he has a lot of games where he's missing open receivers just like Fitz was when he was slumping earlier in the year. Well there's that, but also Flaco at least can take a team very deep into the playoffs. Fitz will never play a single playoff game. Heck, he will never reach .500
peterpan Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Rivers was great from 2008-2010. He's been in decline since. So you are betting that he will suddenly revert to form as a Bill? PTR Everyone on that team has under performed with that boob of a coach they have. I don't expect SD to ditch Rivers under any circumstances, and everyone on that team including Rivers will be much better with a good coach. That team has talent.
benderbender Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Anyone know where Fitz' contract stands? What kind of financial hit would management have to take to bring in a new QB? Why dump him? He's such a stand up guy, I'm sure he'll be a great backup.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Why is it so hard to believe that Eli Manning is better than Fitz? Because Fitz puts up decent stats? One of the biggest problems with statistics is that they can be SO MISLEADING. For example, a player may have a great completion percentage. Just looking at those numbers on paper, a person may assume that high completion percentage = accuracy. But that number doesn't take into account how many passes were short, medium or long. It doesn't take into account receivers dropping passes or making great plays. It doesn't take into account the kind of defense the quarterback was playing, or the situation. It doesn't take into account offensive line play or pressure. Since taking over as the starter in Buffalo, Fitz has put up good numbers - no doubt. Probably on par with guys like Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Joe Flacco, Matt Shaub - and a number of guys talked about frequently on this board. But when you actually watch Fitz play week after week, season after season - you will find there are serious issues in his game. Probably the most visible problem with Fitz is his deep ball accuracy. This weakness makes things really difficult for the rest of the offense, since most opponents play the Bills receivers very close to the line. Of course, that weak point doesn't always show up on the stat sheet, because most of our passes are screens, slants and quick hits. But Fitz also has big problems in his short game accuracy. How many times do you see a quick slant to Stevie Johnson or Donald Jones, where the receiver is forced to dive to the ground to make the catch? That shows up on the stat sheet as a 6-7 yard completion. What people miss - is that if Fitz could hit the receiver in stride - it could be a 20-30 yard completion... maybe even a touchdown. I often think the same thing when reading posts. Last week, people were comparing Fitz to Flacco and Shaub. This week it's Rivers. These guys might be equals in fantasy football, but in real life - not so much. ^^^^^^^ALL THIS^^^^^^^
Coach Tuesday Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Well there's that, but also Flaco at least can take a team very deep into the playoffs. Fitz will never play a single playoff game. Heck, he will never reach .500 I guess the same brilliant logic can extend to Ryan Lindell, or the Bills' ball boy. Pick anyone associated with the Bills' organization, and say they're "not a winner" because they're associated with the Bills' organization. Great.
BuffOrange Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 http://espn.go.com/n...12/seasontype/2 So far Rivers is having a nearly identical season to Fitz statistically. except that he currently leads the NFL in interceptions. Also consider how often starting QBs change teams and have more success with their new team. Hint: Not often. So why do we want him? PTR As pointed out there's a pretty obvious problem in that analysis. Rex Grossmans of the world are let go by their teams much more often than Peyton Mannings. On the rare occasion the latter does actually walk? What a surprise - they're good with their new team!
mjt328 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 The only thing Flacco has on Fitz is arm strength. I've watched a few Ravens games, and sometimes he's on, but he has a lot of games where he's missing open receivers just like Fitz was when he was slumping earlier in the year. My biggest knock on Flacco is that he's always looking for the big play. In that sense, he's kind-of the "anti-Brady." There are lots of times he has guys wide open short, but he decides to launch it downfield because his receiver is 1-on-1. If he just developed some patience, I think he would be among the best in the league. As far as his comparison to Fitz, I think it goes way beyond arm strength (although that is a big and important one). Accuracy is one of the most important traits for a quarterback to have, and while Flacco may not be Drew Brees-like in that respect - he has Fitz topped by miles. In my opinion, Fitz is one of the least accurate passers in the NFL. He's constantly forcing his receivers to the ground to catch slant passes. On post routes in the middle of the field, the receiver usually has to wait for the ball. On deep throws, he's either way long or way short. Flacco is also a much better decision-maker. Despite what I said above, he doesn't force a lot of his passes. Every quarterback has his bad moments. But Fitz makes WAY too many "what the heck was he thinking!?" passes. Tennessee was a perfect example.
thewildrabbit Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 After watching Rivers implode game after game this season under Norv Turner why exactly would the Bills want him? They already have a QB who can't win games and implodes almost as much as Rivers Jeez, howabout finding a QB who is a winner!
Adam Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 After watching Rivers implode game after game this season under Norv Turner why exactly would the Bills want him? They already have a QB who can't win games and implodes almost as much as Rivers Jeez, howabout finding a QB who is a winner! Norv Turner may be the worst coach in the NFL since Rich Kotite was with the Jets in the mid 1990's. The atmosphere under him is completely dysfunctional and the only reason he has a job is because of Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin. I would take Rivers over Fitzpatrick in a second!
Simon Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 I think you are under rating his talents. But I think we have to agree to disagree. I won't disagree with you about his talent or his skillset, but I still have less than zero interest seeing him in a Bills uniform. I think he's dumber than a bag of hammers. I think he lacks any sort of resiliency or grit. I think the fact that he regularly displays the petulancy and reliability of a 9 year-old is a raucously flapping red flag that makes me not want him anywhere near the Bills locker room.
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