Fitz Total QBR For 2012

[Maury Ballstein]

It's funny you make excuses for Cam because of his D but not for Fitz.

 

The only thing Cam has going for him right now is his youth and potential. If you're going strictly based on current performance Cam is not better than Fitz. Will he be better? Maybe. I'd pick Cam on the Bills over Fitz based purely on the chance that he'll improve whereas I know exactly what I'll get from Fitz. But if you asked who I'd rather have at QB this week I'd probably lean towards Fitz.

 

The only things Cam does better than Fitz right now are throw the deep ball and running. His accuracy isn't better, his leadership isn't better, his command of his offense isn't better, his pre-snap and post-snap reads aren't better. Granted, I wouldn't expect them to be better right now given that this is his 2nd year in the league. Hopefully he'll learn. As others have pointed out though there are plenty of guys who looked good for a season and then fell on their faces.

 

You are incredibly irrational when it comes to Fitz as proved by your statement that he's "historically bad" in a different thread. People might want to question your football IQ given that statement.

 

Come on man....replace that sentence with the only thing cam does better than fitz is everything.

 

Cam's accuracy is light years ahead of Fitz's. So if you could pick starting Fitz or Cam this weekend vs Colts you pick Fitz?

 

This is absurd IMO. all this qbr, stats etc don't mean anything. Watch Cam run someone over then throw 40 yard perfect passes, Fitz could only dream to have 1/8th of Cam's skills. puuuurrrriiooddd.

 

I use my eyeballs and they tell me Cam would wreck shop as qb in buffalo.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Ryan L Billz

[MDH]

Come on man....replace that sentence with the only thing cam does better than fitz is everything.

 

Cam's accuracy is light years ahead of Fitz's. So if you could pick starting Fitz or Cam this weekend vs Colts you pick Fitz?

 

This is absurd IMO. all this qbr, stats etc don't mean anything. Watch Cam run someone over then throw 40 yard perfect passes, Fitz could only dream to have 1/8th of Cam's skills. puuuurrrriiooddd.

 

I use my eyeballs and they tell me Cam would wreck shop as qb in buffalo.

 

Like a blindman uses his eyeballs to cross the street.

 

The fact that you want to claim Cam is better at every single facet of the game just demonstrates your inability to rationally break this down. Peyton Manning isn't better at every facet of the game than Fitz, neither is Brady (I'll let you figure out what Fitz is better at.) Yet Cam is? Stats aren't everything but your total disregard for them illustrates that you can't make a valid argument so you simply resort to "I KNOW WHAT I SEE AND YOU DUMB IF YOU NO AGREE WITH ME!" If that's the case what's the point of a discussion?

 

As for Cam's accuracy it might be on par with Fitz's - which is to say, it's not good - but it's not "light year's better." I've seen the guy repeatedly miss open guys in the short to intermediate range.

 

Cam's accuracy this year:

behind Los: 71.7%

1-10yds in air: 61.9%

10-20yds in air: 48.1%

 

That's sh*t accuracy no matter what your eyeballs tell you.

 

 

Fitz's accuracy this year:

Behind LoS: 85.9%

1-10 yds in air: 67.2%

10-20 yds in air: 47.4%

 

Not great either but better than Cam's. As I said, I'll give you Cam's deep ball is much better than Fitz but his short to intermediate throws aren't better than Fitz's and these are the bulk of a QB's throws. But don't let facts get in the way of your eyeballs.

 

 

Btw, for comparison for both look at a guy like Peyton who is at 77% for short throws (1-10 yds) and over 50% for intermediate (10- 20yds).

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Peyton Manning isn't better at every facet of the game than Fitz, neither is Brady (I'll let you figure out what Fitz is better at.)

 

Growing a beard?

 

JK, couldn't resist.

Edited November 19, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[JESSEFEFFER]

The TQBR by ESPN was developed with some assistance from Football Outsiders. The funny thing is that the Football Outsiders QB ratings have Fitz at 17th and the TQBR as of week 10 had him at 27th. I recall the TQBR to have been claimed to be more heavily weighted to clutch play and the Pats(II) and Titans games would therefore be big negatives in what was otherwise pretty decent QB performance. Fitz has to be more clutch the rest of the way assuming that the defense is trending more toward average quality. The remaining games should be closer and he will have to produce in the clutch. IMO, this has been the biggest negative of his tenure here.

 

The finish to the Titans game might hang around Fitz's neck like skunk on a rope. It's tough to make up for a collapse like that in a home game against an "inferior" opponent.

[Maury Ballstein]

Like a blindman uses his eyeballs to cross the street.

 

The fact that you want to claim Cam is better at every single facet of the game just demonstrates your inability to rationally break this down. Peyton Manning isn't better at every facet of the game than Fitz, neither is Brady (I'll let you figure out what Fitz is better at.) Yet Cam is? Stats aren't everything but your total disregard for them illustrates that you can't make a valid argument so you simply resort to "I KNOW WHAT I SEE AND YOU DUMB IF YOU NO AGREE WITH ME!" If that's the case what's the point of a discussion?

 

As for Cam's accuracy it might be on par with Fitz's - which is to say, it's not good - but it's not "light year's better." I've seen the guy repeatedly miss open guys in the short to intermediate range.

 

Cam's accuracy this year:

behind Los: 71.7%

1-10yds in air: 61.9%

10-20yds in air: 48.1%

 

That's sh*t accuracy no matter what your eyeballs tell you.

 

 

Fitz's accuracy this year:

Behind LoS: 85.9%

1-10 yds in air: 67.2%

10-20 yds in air: 47.4%

 

Not great either but better than Cam's. As I said, I'll give you Cam's deep ball is much better than Fitz but his short to intermediate throws aren't better than Fitz's and these are the bulk of a QB's throws. But don't let facts get in the way of your eyeballs.

 

 

Btw, for comparison for both look at a guy like Peyton who is at 77% for short throws (1-10 yds) and over 50% for intermediate (10- 20yds).

 

Thanks for spending 2 hours breaking down this season's stats. QBR and all of these stats mean jack to me. Patchwork OL's and great play calling (Chan and Rivera) are not taken into account here.

 

If you were running this team and had Fitz and Cam on the sideline and you chose fitz then you are not that bright IMO.

 

It's that simple. IMO Fitz is terrible (give it a few weeks he will stink it up again, might do okay vs raggedy colts Defense)

 

Nothing to get salty about....... you go out and ruffle feathers like Skip Bayless with this Fitz over Cam nonsense.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Ryan L Billz

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The TQBR by ESPN was developed with some assistance from Football Outsiders. The funny thing is that the Football Outsiders QB ratings have Fitz at 17th and the TQBR as of week 10 had him at 27th. I recall the TQBR to have been claimed to be more heavily weighted to clutch play and the Pats(II) and Titans games would therefore be big negatives in what was otherwise pretty decent QB performance. Fitz has to be more clutch the rest of the way assuming that the defense is trending more toward average quality. The remaining games should be closer and he will have to produce in the clutch. IMO, this has been the biggest negative of his tenure here.

 

The finish to the Titans game might hang around Fitz's neck like skunk on a rope. It's tough to make up for a collapse like that in a home game against an "inferior" opponent.

 

As I've said in this and other discussions, there's a whole sabermetrics community out there trying to perform statistical measures of athletic performance.

 

That said (based on common sense), there are probably good metrics, bad metrics, and a bunch of them in between.

[MDH]

Thanks for spending 2 hours breaking down this season's stats.

 

While it might take you 2 hours to find these stats it took me all of 5 minutes. I know, it's a crazy idea, getting facts to back up an argument I knew it would be lost on you but I took the 5 minutes and did it anyway.

 

But of course anybody who doesn't agree with you isn't bright and any facts brought into the discussion don't matter because you know your fooseball. Got it.

[Maury Ballstein]

calmer than you are, dude

 

thanks for the condescending tone and jumping to conclusions though

 

like I said before Fitz is 1/8th as good as Cam. thanks for the stats. im not a stats guy

 

fitz has all day to throw and gives us nothing.........if cam had the same situation (good OL, spiller, freddy) these stats would be very different.

 

if you start fitz over cam you just don't know fooseball sir.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Ryan L Billz

[JPS]

Until they prove otherwise, all the QBs mentioned are losers.

 

Next.

[Garion]

Cam Newton isn't looking good. He may right the ship but there are major character issues with him. See below for last months discussion

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/151801-cam-newton-ive-heard-of-him-get-er-done/page__hl__newton

 

 

I know there is a TBD community that believes a number one draft pick at QB is a guarantee of the hall of fame and a rejuvenated franchise but Bradford Stafford Russel Carr sure suggest there are lots of other ways this can turn out poorly

[Orton's Arm]

Thanks for spending 2 hours breaking down this season's stats. QBR and all of these stats mean jack to me. Patchwork OL's and great play calling (Chan and Rivera) are not taken into account here.

 

If you were running this team and had Fitz and Cam on the sideline and you chose fitz then you are not that bright IMO.

 

It's that simple. IMO Fitz is terrible (give it a few weeks he will stink it up again, might do okay vs raggedy colts Defense)

 

Nothing to get salty about....... you go out and ruffle feathers like Skip Bayless with this Fitz over Cam nonsense.

 

I am not exactly the guy driving Fitz's bandwagon. However, MDH's post was constructive and informative. He supported his opinions with facts and reasoning. I enjoyed reading his post. I do not feel your post added much to the discussion, beyond your (renewed) insistence that Cam is a significantly better QB than Fitz.

 

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that according to Football Outsiders' rating, Fitz is 17th best; and according to TQBR he's 27th best. I think that those two ratings represent reasonable lower and upper limits. He's probably not better than 17th in the NFL, and probably not worse than 27th. Where Cam Newton should be ranked is a separate discussion.

[MDH]

like I said before Fitz is 1/8th as good as Cam. thanks for the stats. im not a stats guy

 

Now this is an interesting point you've made here. "1/8th as good." Fascinating. You are not a stat guy but Fitz is 1/8th "as good" as Cam. So, if not by stats then what measurable is he "1/8th as good?" How did you come up with 1/8th? Can one measure 1/8th of arbitrary?

 

Let's take this a bit farther. I don't have your actual rankings of QBs so I'm sure I'll misplace a QB but I think everybody will get the idea. We'll call this the CAM NEWTON RATING SYSTEM. It's like QBR and passer ratings, only better! In this system, everything is relative to Cam Newton. Now, I've taken some liberties but I think your system would look something like this.

 

 

CNRS

1/8th as good as Cam Newton - Ryan Fitzpatrick

1/4th as good as Cam Newton - Tony Romo

1/2 as good as Cam Newton - Matt Schaub

1 - Cam Newton (the bar by which all other QBs are rated)

2 times as good as Cam Newton - Matt Ryan

4 times as good as Cam Newton - Peyton Manning

5 times as good as Cam Newton - Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers

 

Obviously, these rankings aren't complete but you get the idea. You should like this system, there are numbers there but there aren't really any stats to confuse the brain. And since you're not a stat guy this is right up your alley! I think if we worked with this a bit it could really catch on.

 

Am I still being condescending? How about 1/8th of condescending?

Edited November 20, 2012 by MDH

[Bronc24]

 

 

It's funny you make excuses for Cam because of his D but not for Fitz.

 

The only thing Cam has going for him right now is his youth and potential. If you're going strictly based on current performance Cam is not better than Fitz. Will he be better? Maybe. I'd pick Cam on the Bills over Fitz based purely on the chance that he'll improve whereas I know exactly what I'll get from Fitz. But if you asked who I'd rather have at QB this week I'd probably lean towards Fitz.

 

The only things Cam does better than Fitz right now are throw the deep ball and running. His accuracy isn't better, his leadership isn't better, his command of his offense isn't better, his pre-snap and post-snap reads aren't better. Granted, I wouldn't expect them to be better right now given that this is his 2nd year in the league. Hopefully he'll learn. As others have pointed out though there are plenty of guys who looked good for a season and then fell on their faces.

 

You are incredibly irrational when it comes to Fitz as proved by your statement that he's "historically bad" in a different thread. People might want to question your football IQ given that statement.

 

I don't recall calling Fitz historically bad, but I do know I have said that about our defense on a number of occasions. However, when a QB (Fitz) has the game on the line and an ENTIRE fan base is afraid he will INT the game away, that is, IMO, historically bad. I read the threads here, no one was shocked he threw those picks vs. the Titans or Pats*. Not one. Even Nix is openly talking about the need to draft a QB in April. Hardly a ringing endorsement for our current starter.

 

Perhaps I am irrational towards Fitz. Perhaps his inability to throw a deep sideline pass is just a pet peeve of mine. Perhaps his INTs at terrible times just aggravate me more than a normal fan. Maybe his horrible winning percentage makes me think irrationally. Possibly I should want the description of the best plays of my starting QB's game to include the words "block" and "heart" instead of "bomb" and "TD pass".

 

Maybe Fitz will lead this team to the playoffs and all the apologists can yell, "I told you so!" I'd love if that would happen but, as I have stated an irrational number of times, I don't see it happening. If that means you believe I have a low football IQ, so be it. If my limited football IQ wishes we had Cam Newton instead of Fitz, so be it. If that makes me irrational, so be it. I see what I see and I believe what I see.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Marauder24

[MDH]

Maybe Fitz will lead this team to the playoffs and all the apologists can yell, "I told you so!" I'd love if that would happen but, as I have stated an irrational number of times, I don't see it happening. If that means you believe I have a low football IQ, so be it. If my limited football IQ wishes we had Cam Newton instead of Fitz, so be it. If that makes me irrational, so be it. I see what I see and I believe what I see.

 

I'm not an "apologist" who makes him sound like a QB to build the team around for a decade. I readily admit his flaws (and he has quite a few.) However, I also defend him against people who try to make him sound like the bottom of the barrel of NFL QBs or call him "historically bad." I guess this is where we differ. I don't speak in hyperbole to make a point.

 

The people who trash Fitz seem to think that those defending him are taking the total opposite perspective. As if there are only two sides to this coin and you either think Fitz is horrible or he's elite. The problem is that nobody is arguing the latter. People just point out that he's average. The Bills don't need him to make the playoffs to prove my point, Fitz proves it every single game and every single season.

 

He can't put a team on his back and win consistently - that's what elite guys do. But when the D shows up to play the team can, and does, win. Fitz is capable of doing his part in the collective. Lots don't like that and want to search for a new QB. I'm all for it, just don't throw away the average one we've already got in the process and don't be over-the-top and make it sound like he's the end-all-be-it of bad QBing.

 

And no, I don't think you have a low football IQ because we don't see eye-to-eye on this thing. I've seen some of your other posts and you make solid points on other issues. And as I said above, I'd take Newton over Fitz for the long term as well. I just don't think Cam is a very good QB right now.

Edited November 20, 2012 by MDH

[Maury Ballstein]

Now this is an interesting point you've made here. "1/8th as good." Fascinating. You are not a stat guy but Fitz is 1/8th "as good" as Cam. So, if not by stats then what measurable is he "1/8th as good?" How did you come up with 1/8th? Can one measure 1/8th of arbitrary?

 

Let's take this a bit farther. I don't have your actual rankings of QBs so I'm sure I'll misplace a QB but I think everybody will get the idea. We'll call this the CAM NEWTON RATING SYSTEM. It's like QBR and passer ratings, only better! In this system, everything is relative to Cam Newton. Now, I've taken some liberties but I think your system would look something like this.

 

 

CNRS

1/8th as good as Cam Newton - Ryan Fitzpatrick

1/4th as good as Cam Newton - Tony Romo

1/2 as good as Cam Newton - Matt Schaub

1 - Cam Newton (the bar by which all other QBs are rated)

2 times as good as Cam Newton - Matt Ryan

4 times as good as Cam Newton - Peyton Manning

5 times as good as Cam Newton - Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers

 

Obviously, these rankings aren't complete but you get the idea. You should like this system, there are numbers there but there aren't really any stats to confuse the brain. And since you're not a stat guy this is right up your alley! I think if we worked with this a bit it could really catch on.

 

Am I still being condescending? How about 1/8th of condescending?

 

your up to 7/8th of condescension. it started with your 1st reply when you started with all this nonsense about not being able to break down all facets of why cam is better. and then some nonsense about how i will disagree with anyone who states otherwise. I care not for 2012 stats as OL's etc all come into play.

 

 

if your having issues in life reach out to someone. people really do care out there. its not too late for you.

 

your orneriness is coming thru the cpu. if you wanna talk fitz vs cam we can, (you can represent the 1% who would start Fitz this weekend)or you can just jump to conclusions and rant for another 2 hours. come on grumpy bear....turn that frown upside down.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Ryan L Billz

[MDH]

 

(you can represent the 1% who would start Fitz this weekend)

 

That sounds like a stat. I thought you didn't like stats? "1/8th as good" is a kinda/sorta stat too. This one makes two. Come on, admit it, you secretly love stats! You keep trying to sneak them into your posts. Granted, they're made up stats, but a made up stat is still a stat!