gobillsinytown Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 I've been to NFL games in Buffalo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Detroit and Philly. Rowdy fan behavior was about the same at all of these stadiums, and this is certainly not the first time someone has died at an NFL game. It's a sad fact that alcohol doesn't mix well with some people. However, that doesn't mute the pain that this young man's family is going through right now. They have a hole in their hearts that will never heal. They will be second-guessing themselves for the rest of their lives. They will be agonizing over what they should have done, or didn't do, to prevent it from happening. "Regret" will be a word that they will come to know very well. We should all remember to be sympathetic first and foremost. Then the discussion can move to what can be done to try to prevent this from happening again. I would suggest that during prime time games that alcohol be made as much of a non-factor as possible. No beer sales, and very limited tailgating. That won't solve the problem completely, but it will help.
Bob in STL Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Yeah this one is a real doosie. I'm very conflicted as I see all sides of this. While there's a few different ways to feel about it, there's maybe only two morals to the story: 1) Don't ever drink yourself into an incapacitated stupor. 2) If someone you know and love is in the above state, stop everything that you are doing and accompany that person to safety. I agree with your two points. 1. We are all accountable for our own behavior. Attending a Bills game does not give us the right to get so drunk that we become a nuisance (or a threat) to others or even to ourselves. 2. As humans we are acountable to each other. I would try to stop my brother (or son, or friend) from getting that drunk but if he did I would not let him out of the stadium alone. Lawsuits will be filed for sure. What was missing is accountability from all parties, the victim, the brother, and even the Bills. I am saddened to hear this news but as I have written in the past, things are more out of control than ever at that Stadium and the police our completely out numbered. Edited November 17, 2012 by Bob in STL
Flutie Flakes Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 I am saddened to hear this news but as I have written in the past, things are more out of control than ever at that Stadium and the police our completely out numbered. I agree with your post Bob. It was evident the other night how out of hand things were. Non paying fans trying to rush a gate, beligerent young drunks outside and inside the stadium, accidents, injuries, one death...it is out of control. I know it is a huge revenue source for the stadium, but I would not sell beer, especially at night games until you can figure out a way for drunks not to be served. As I stated before, the guys in front of us at the game were clearly intoxicated and one was falling asleep in the fourth quarter, yet for the first half, they kept getting served. Then one of the guys immediately in front of me starts clapping over his head and his hand is inches from my face. I grabbed him and told him to knock it off but this type of $&*# is why I ask myself why I continue to go to games.
sodbuster Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 I agree with your post Bob. It was evident the other night how out of hand things were. Non paying fans trying to rush a gate, beligerent young drunks outside and inside the stadium, accidents, injuries, one death...it is out of control. I know it is a huge revenue source for the stadium, but I would not sell beer, especially at night games until you can figure out a way for drunks not to be served. As I stated before, the guys in front of us at the game were clearly intoxicated and one was falling asleep in the fourth quarter, yet for the first half, they kept getting served. Then one of the guys immediately in front of me starts clapping over his head and his hand is inches from my face. I grabbed him and told him to knock it off but this type of $&*# is why I ask myself why I continue to go to games. Cause that makes the situation better. Next time use the fan hotline.
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 I agree with your two points. 1. We are all accountable for our own behavior. Attending a Bills game does not give us the right to get so drunk that we become a nuisance (or a threat) to others or even to ourselves. 2. As humans we are acountable to each other. I would try to stop my brother (or son, or friend) from getting that drunk but if he did I would not let him out of the stadium alone. Lawsuits will be filed for sure. What was missing is accountability from all parties, the victim, the brother, and even the Bills. I am saddened to hear this news but as I have written in the past, things are more out of control than ever at that Stadium and the police our completely out numbered. Remind me what he did to get ejected? Makes a bit of difference in how you handle it, no? I have friends who when they drink are known to get a little rowdy and could get tossed without me thinking for a second they were in dangerous territory meeting up at the end. If he was in a stupor, that's a different story of course. Ejected for being drunk could be anything from a polite way of saying he dropped some curse words near kids, to was passed out in his own vomit. If he communicated with his family that he'd meet them at a bar down the street and they said it was cool, it'd seem shocking to hear he was fall down drunk being carried out by security. Just my 2 cents. It's very possible that there's a lot more to fill in the gaps - more drinking after he left? A health issue? Just some examples of how you can't blame the family... Atleast yet.
Flutie Flakes Posted November 17, 2012 Posted November 17, 2012 Cause that makes the situation better. Next time use the fan hotline. You do not know me nor were you there. In this case, it actually did make the situation better because it prevented things from escalating. I am very level headed and was in control of the situation. If I called the hotline and by the time they responded, the punk would clearly have hit me or a girl sitting next to me and then things would have gone down hill fast. I simply took hold of his arm and asked him politely to stop. Some times, taking matters into your own hands is the right move.
nick in* england Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Serious comments about this awful situation aside... There was a helicopter flying above the stadium on Thursday night until well past 6AM. Sleeping in my tent in Hammers Lot, this was a serious barrier to undisturbed sleep. I guess they found the guy around then, because the helicopter left and I slept soundly until beyond 9AM!
ACor58 Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Looks like there is a lot more to this story and it is not as simple as drunk stumbles out of stadium and drowns. Foul play? http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121117/CITYANDREGION/121119251/1002
DrDawkinstein Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Looks like there is a lot more to this story and it is not as simple as drunk stumbles out of stadium and drowns. Foul play? http://www.buffalone.../121119251/1002 Ugh, not good...
KD in CA Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Looks like there is a lot more to this story and it is not as simple as drunk stumbles out of stadium and drowns. Foul play? http://www.buffalone.../121119251/1002 Foul play? How on earth did you get there from that fluff piece? Every guy I've ever seen thrown out of a stadium tried playing the "what did I do?!?" card, so I'm not going to put much weight on that, especially as a 3d hand story. I don't know if his BAC will be made public when they figure it out, but that would shed a lot of light on the story.
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) As I've been saying, we still really have no idea. We had the outsider assumptions - family has there's.... We will see. Edited November 18, 2012 by NoSaint
mrags Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) A few things about that interview with his dad. 1. I don't get how anyone could claim foul play from that. 2. I doubt anyone could have any kind of conversation in the stadium with anyone in the phone. Have you ever tried to talk to someone when 70,000 screaming people are around? 3. I never had to lie to my parents about me drinking or anything so they know that I get wasted at times. They know that when I go to games I most likely have more to drunk than I should. And they know I'm no saint. I know this mans father is grieving, but he is acting like his son is a choir boy that would never drink too much. Hell, when my best friend was 18 he walked home 6 miles in a blizzard and poured hot soup over his head to keep warm only to fall onto his mother when he walked into the house. Stomach pumped and everything. Up until that night she never thought he drank. I know the kid is 26 and his parents probably know him well enough, but he most likely is t telling his parents if he's getting hammered before Bills games and then driving home. I'm not saying he's wasted though. 4. I also have no idea why he would have been on another side of the stadium. It's not like security drive him down the street and dropped him off 0.8 miles away from the stadium in a certain direction. I've never been kicked out, but I can assume that they just walk you out the nearest gate and say goodnight. My guess is that they might walk one to the edge of the driveway or parking lot which their car is located but that's about it. I was parked in a lot probably not more than a few hundred feet-yards where he was found. It was like a 20 minute walk from the gates. Maybe there was foul play. Someone messing with him picked him up and kicked him out of the car or something. Maybe he saw some really hot chick and his little brain led him 0.7 miles in the opposite direction from where he should have been. No one really knows at this point. But I can tell you this, when I was 26 years old, even in my drunkest state, I would have been able to decipher what side of the stadium I was on. Especially if I would have known where I was going. So there either must be foul play, or his parents don't really know how wasted he liked to get. Either way. Very sad tragedy. Edited November 18, 2012 by mrags
dayman Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Wow. Too much drink sad. Not to get political but too much weed would not have a man in a creek dead. In all honesty though...this is very sad. I think this is at least the 3rd drunk person to die at an NFL game this year by my count. I know I read a story of some guy dying at a game just weeks ago (I think it was an NFC east game can't remember exactly basically a guy falling down a 30 ft over an edge) Edited November 18, 2012 by TheNewBills
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 R.I.P. Anonymous 26 year old Buffalo Bills Miami Dolphins fan. Fixed.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) "Around halftime, Gerken said he was going to the men’s room. Minutes later, he called his brother on his cell phone and told him he was being thrown out of Ralph Wilson Stadium – and he didn’t know why. He told his brother he would meet him after the game at a nearby bar." This from the article... I betcha he was walking to the Big Tree Inn or Danny's South... But why did he take that way (by Shadow Lane & Smokes Creek)? He must have got turned around? It is pretty thick in there... Maybe it was foul play... ?? EDIT: From the article: "Even after Gerken was ejected, he sounded under control while talking to his younger brother on a cell phone, his father said. The brothers agreed to meet after the game at Tailgaters Bar & Grill, at the corner of Southwestern Boulevard and Abbott Road." Why the heck was he in the opposite direction? Being an opposing fan... Maybe he got caught up in something and they blamed him! You know how it is in opposing stadiums... When ever I am in an opposing stadium and go take a piss on my own... I ALWAYS try NOT to get caught up in anything! Maybe he got caught up in a melee and was dizzy?? Edited November 18, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Somebody should check out post #18... Being that the deceased WAS a Dolphins fan: "My cousin I left the stadium around 1am walking down Shadow Lane we saw a young guy slouched over in a #91 Cameron Wake orange fins jersey in someone's lawn. He had his face in his hands and appeared to be distraught and crying. We asked him if he was okay, but after he looked up kinda of uninviting we went on our way. Could be unrelated but wouldn't be surprised if this was the guy they found. Sad story." Strange... Shadow lane appears to be a dead end road off of Big Tree... Why would anybody be down there unless they were parked or lived there? Maybe question the brother?
bbb Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 Am I the only person who thinks fan behavior was way worse in the 80s? I saw an entire section thrown out at the Pats game in '86. I saw fight after fight after fight at the MNF Jets games in 83 and Doiphins in 84. Just brutal fights. I never see anything close to this anymore.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Am I the only person who thinks fan behavior was way worse in the 80s? I saw an entire section thrown out at the Pats game in '86. I saw fight after fight after fight at the MNF Jets games in 83 and Doiphins in 84. Just brutal fights. I never see anything close to this anymore. No. You used to be able to sneak a whole 12 pack (cans) in under your parka. What about the famous beer bottle off the upper deck that killed someone... You are right bbb, behavior was much worse years ago... It was just tolerated. Edited November 18, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois
plenzmd1 Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Well, as No Saint and I have argued, still cannot say whether alcohol was involved or not, but this latest article sure as chit makes it sound like it was not.. To all of those who immediate reaction was " fug em , dude did it to himself " , just remember to not make judgements based on one sentence in a just thrown together story. Ask Richard Jewel.. No. You used to be able to sneak a whole 12 pack (cans) in under your parka. What about the famous beer bottle off the upper deck that killed someone... You are right bbb, behavior was much worse years ago... It was just tolerated. Beer bottle death sounds like urban myth to me. I am off to the google machine to find out. Edited November 18, 2012 by plenzmd1
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 18, 2012 Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Well, as No Saint and I have argued, still cannot say whether alcohol was involved or not, but this latest article sure as chit makes it sound like it was not.. To all of those who immediate reaction was " fug em , dude did it to himself " , just remember to not make judgements based on one sentence in a just thrown together story. Ask Richard Jewel.. That is what I am wondering. I mean, he was a Fins fan... Probably sticking out like a sore thumb in a sea of Bills fans... Bad combination! How the heck does he get ejected... Was he a problem and got tossed or just in the wrong place at the wrong time and gets caught up in crap and they pick on him (Fins fan and all)? Then he ends up 180 degrees where he should have walked to... Near a dead end street, down a steep ravine in the creek... Something is not right... Did you read post #18 from SACKMARINO... Wow... What the heck were they doing down Shadow Lane (again... A dead end that only has one outlet: Big Tree)... Strange... @ 1AM? Huh... How many hours after the game is that? Then... The father (from Palmyria) personally finds him the next day... WTF? Again, something doesn't smell right... Edited November 18, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois
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