ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Or the $2 bus fare. I am not sure what bus fare is now... 2 dollars seems low... I am trying to remember what it was the last time I took the train into the city... But that was 30 miles all the way to The Loop...
Chef Jim Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 I am not sure what bus fare is now... 2 dollars seems low... I am trying to remember what it was the last time I took the train into the city... But that was 30 miles all the way to The Loop... SF $2. Have no idea what it is in Chicago but the MUNI drivers are the second highest paid in the country so I assume it can't be much higher than here.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 SF $2. Have no idea what it is in Chicago but the MUNI drivers are the second highest paid in the country so I assume it can't be much higher than here. That is about right... I thought it would be higher, like 4 bucks... Transfers are only $.25...
birdog1960 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 And yet you have a clear example just north of you that shows that the system is doing terribly. What you have is a public system where people are opting more and more towards privatization. no objection by me for those that want to pay more than taxes for their care to got tiered service. such a system still provides basic care to everyone and a bit more for those that are willing to pay more. the main objective for many involved in healthcare planning is universal care. concierge, gold plated, extraordinary care doesn't need to be part of the deal nor should it be.
meazza Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 no objection by me for those that want to pay more than taxes for their care to got tiered service. such a system still provides basic care to everyone and a bit more for those that are willing to pay more. the main objective for many involved in healthcare planning is universal care. concierge, gold plated, extraordinary care doesn't need to be part of the deal nor should it be. Come and spend time in a Canadian hospital or try and find a family doctor in Quebec and then come and tell me if people are actually receiving basic care.
birdog1960 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Come and spend time in a Canadian hospital or try and find a family doctor in Quebec and then come and tell me if people are actually receiving basic care. spent some time in orillia a few years back with a family member. thought it was great.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 spent some time in orillia a few years back with a family member. thought it was great. Pretty nice up there... We used to canoe every summer through Algonquin Provincial Park and the surrounding lakes...
birdog1960 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 Pretty nice up there... We used to canoe every summer through Algonquin Provincial Park and the surrounding lakes... yes, very pretty. but i meant i thought the hospital care was great. was later transferred to buffalo where i was less impressed with the care.
meazza Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 yes, very pretty. but i meant i thought the hospital care was great. was later transferred to buffalo where i was less impressed with the care. You've obviously never had to sit in a waiting room for 12-15 hours.
Doc Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 and his collections are $350000 more...he brings home more.but keep demonizing without basis. you're not convincing but that's all you got.here's another piece of information that gives us some insight into how this will work or not work: massachusettes. romneycare is very similar to obamacare. and romney was very proud of it til he realized he couldn't win the republican nomination supporting it. and it's done pretty well. none of the disasters you're predicting have come to pass. there's still some of the best doctors in the world at the brigham. there are very few uninsured. costs haven't decreased but aren't out of line with the rest of the country. His collections will remain the same? LOL! And Romneycare is failing as well. But as has been said, if you don't like it, you can move out of the state. And yet you have a clear example just north of you that shows that the system is doing terribly. What you have is a public system where people are opting more and more towards privatization. This is the most amazing thing. The UK and Canadian systems are failing, and some want to move TO that kind of system. It's the 2nd definition of insanity: seeing what doesn't work and wanting to do it.
meazza Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 This is the most amazing thing. The UK and Canadian systems are failing, and some want to move TO that kind of system. It's the 2nd definition of insanity: seeing what doesn't work and wanting to do it. He believes in equality. Equal misery for everyone.
Doc Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 He believes in equality. Equal misery for everyone. More like he believes in fairy tales. Like rainbow farting unicorns.
birdog1960 Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 His collections will remain the same? LOL! And Romneycare is failing as well. But as has been said, if you don't like it, you can move out of the state. This is the most amazing thing. The UK and Canadian systems are failing, and some want to move TO that kind of system. It's the 2nd definition of insanity: seeing what doesn't work and wanting to do it. you must have been an employed physician all your career...have you ever run the business side of a practice? obviously, us neurosurgeons have higher collections than canadian neurosurgeons, on average. the disparity in collections more than compensates for the disparity in the expense of malpractice insurance to the extent that on avg they make about double the net income of canadian neurosurgeons. this inability to understand must be an affectation...right? and "failing" by your definition, of course. the majority of canadians and brits are satisfied with their systems. for the umpteenth time, on measures of outcomes as a function of cost they are doing quite well. the current us system (medicare fee for service or even worse, managed care medicare) is going broke very rapidly. private insurance premiums are rising much faster than inflation to the point where many private companies are dropping coverage or making employees pay portions many can't afford and the vast number of uninsured increases daily. but that's not failing to you?
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 You've obviously never had to sit in a waiting room for 12-15 hours. Maybe you were talking about him... In my case, my father is a disabled vet... I was broken in w/the VA system years ago starting in the 1970's as a youth... My father would drag me along every time he would go there... As a little child (as early as I can remember) nothing but waiting and waiting... Heck, those were the days when they would leave children in the waiting room or first floor lobby for hours alone! LoL... Just imagine that in today's age! That Vietnam era was a rough period...
Nanker Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 wow, they wait the longest for plastic surgery! that's awful. shortest for oncology...makes sense. but this is what it comes down to in my estimation: everybody gets care but not as quickly for a covered pt in traditional fee for service market (e.g. us). as i've said ad nauseum, this still results in better overall outcomes throughout the system in most cases.but that's not what matters to the cons on the board. they don't care about how the changes will affect the system overall but how it will affect them or people like them. and if they're insured well, it will likely make wait times longer. the fact that many uninsured people will have much better care and thus likely improve the overall health of the nation, is irrelevant. I knew you'd zone in on that. You're focused on what's really important in life - like appearances, and that the end justifies the means. If the system is so bitchin', why then do any from the Great White North travel south to improve themselves. Seems to you they are and should be jack-happy to wait weeks and months to get their situation taken care of without bolting south to get quickly fixed. Health "insurance" does not equate to health care, and "universal" health care doesn't keep people from getting ill and dying - even in Canada and GB and Russia.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 yes, very pretty. but i meant i thought the hospital care was great. was later transferred to buffalo where i was less impressed with the care. I understood that, sorry for changing the topic... Just making small talk... I should have implied that. Again, sorry. He believes in equality. Equal misery for everyone. Not really. I believe in a class structure. Anway... To quote Van Morrison: "Wake up Enlightenment says the world is nothing Nothing but a dream, everything's an illusion And nothing is real Good or bad, baby You can change it anyway you want You can rearrange it Enlightenment, don't know what it is..." The AMA has been artificially restricting the number of doctors in the United States for a 100 years to increase pay- so spare me any complaints about the government interfering with free market economics in healthcare. AMA would kinda be like a "union" then... ??
Doc Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 you must have been an employed physician all your career...have you ever run the business side of a practice? obviously, us neurosurgeons have higher collections than canadian neurosurgeons, on average. the disparity in collections more than compensates for the disparity in the expense of malpractice insurance to the extent that on avg they make about double the net income of canadian neurosurgeons. this inability to understand must be an affectation...right? Oh boy. Why do Canadian neurosurgeons make less than US ones? Are they lazy? Underworked? Are there too many of them? When you understand why they make less, and that you advocate moving to that same system, while the tort system remains the same in the US (whereas in Canada it isn't an issue), you'll finally have a grasp on the situation. Until then... and "failing" by your definition, of course. the majority of canadians and brits are satisfied with their systems. for the umpteenth time, on measures of outcomes as a function of cost they are doing quite well. the current us system (medicare fee for service or even worse, managed care medicare) is going broke very rapidly. private insurance premiums are rising much faster than inflation to the point where many private companies are dropping coverage or making employees pay portions many can't afford and the vast number of uninsured increases daily. but that's not failing to you? Failing. Meaning costs are skyrocketing and it's unsustainable. Which is what will happen under Obamacare because it does NOTHING TO ADDRESS THE REAL PROBLEMS.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Not really. I believe in a class structure. What the !@#$ does this even mean? AMA would kinda be like a "union" then... ?? No, it's a guild, which is worse.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 What the !@#$ does this even mean? It means: Mow my lawn you peon. Oh, and you missed a spot. :-P :-P
birdog1960 Posted November 22, 2012 Posted November 22, 2012 Oh boy. Why do Canadian neurosurgeons make less than US ones? Are they lazy? Underworked? Are there too many of them? When you understand why they make less, and that you advocate moving to that same system, while the tort system remains the same in the US (whereas in Canada it isn't an issue), you'll finally have a grasp on the situation. Until then... oh boy, indeed. your argument and calculus rests on the assumption that the us is soon going to a single payor system. even the most ardent supporter of a canadian styled system doesn't believe this. it will be a long time coming if it ever comes. and yes, then, malpractice reform will be an absolute economic necessity.....and would be very desirable, right now, as it is.
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