Best Player Available Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So I know this is being discuss in multiple other threads in other topics. I think we need one place to discuss this as it likely will be a hot button topic for the week, (and likely until we play the Pats again next year.) Mods if you collapse this thread please keep the title. I watched the play a few dozen times now. You can watch the play here: http://www.nfl.com/v...ne-interception 1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play. This is just one specific example of how much Fitzpatrick misses his David Nelson security blanket. That expected route looks like David Nelson's signature inside route. 2.) McCourty had to jump in the air when he was 5 yards deep in the end zone to catch the interception. If Statement 1 is correct and Fitzpatrick was looking for TJ Graham to break in front of the defenders why was the ball thrown so High? If you watch the flight of the ball, the Ball would have been way over TJ Graham's head if he broke infront of the defenders.TJ Graham would have likely had to jump in order to catch, and Jump real high; exposing himself to a big time hit by those safties and corners. If Fitzpatrick would have thrown the ball where it should have been located on that play, At TJ Graham's Numbers OR LOWER. In this situation with a 6'0" receiver the Ball should have landed safely on the ground two yards deep in the end zone. That ball should have been at TJ's Numbers or LOWER. So not only did TJ Graham run the wrong route but it appears Fitzpatrick had poor ball placement on the play, like usual. This is another example of how the 6'5" David Nelson and 6'7" Scott Chandler that usually run this route might have actually made the play. But the 6'0" TJ Graham even if TJ broke infront of the defenders he might not have made the play given the height of the throw. 3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play. If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock. If you watch the timing of throw to where TJ Graham is on the field it just seems off even if you're expecting TJ Graham to break inside. Its obviously easy to watch the play 36 times on nfl.com, knowing the outcome and make a judgment as compared to being in the pocket. TJ Graham is staring at the goalpost for the majority of the play. CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal. CJ Spiller also was ready and aware of the situation and wanted the ball. TJ Graham was not. I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't take these **** Sandwiches this team is feeding us for much longer. Nice work, any chance the morons over at OBD know this, or even look at stuff like this? Or does chan say he still doesn't have the answers? My guess is no. The quarterbacking on this franchise is maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Wow.. watching this a couple times I think spiller actually would've scored. his man had dropped off of him and no one was close to him.. he would have had one man to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Looking at this,,,it is true that Steve was wide open as his defender jumped the route to go to CJ. Also, Fitz passed where there were 3 blue players. There were only 2 blue players against Stevie and CJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 He should have 100% dropped it off to CJ. Instead of going for it twice into the endzone Fitz makes the pass to CJ on second down. He gets the first by far. Then clock the ball IF CJ does not score. Heck i might even try a designed QB draw on one. If you do not score, clock it again, go for it on fourth. Sorry, but lets say the Bills scored with 25-30 seconds left and are up by one. You really want to give Brady the ball back with time outs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Great post. Just a couple observations: It was actually 2nd down on that play, so, if they went to Spiller and didn't get the first down, it would have been third down, with less time on the clock. I will say that in the moment (not in hindsight), I felt we should have been going for the first down. That being said, it looked like a lot of Pats defenders were guarding that area. To me, the ball looks catchable if Graham had cut in front. It probably would have been challenge quickly and it may have been dislodged as a result, but I think it would have been reasonably catchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Overall, Fitz needs to be put out to pasture! It's easy to blame the rookie, but Fitz is a horrendous starting QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Question: How many of you calling for the dumpoff short are the same folks who have spent the past couple of weeks complaining that when the Bills are in the red zone they do not take enough shots directly in the End Zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Spiller DARTS into the endzone if the ball is thrown to him. Nobody touches him. Dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Fitz is what we got so i will stay pro Ryan till we draft . he had a very good game coming off his improved game against Houston. But one thing i have noticed, is that he makes up his mind early no matter how many look offs he gives. Maybe in Chans play calling he has everyone getting at the " I'M about to be open" window at the same time. I have seen it many time each game that other players are "were the better choice " even if the pass is completed. easy for me , right ? But rewinding games, Ryan seems to get a mind set and since its all timing with Chan, he commits before the seperation. I think he can improve on this because the offense is getting much better at beating their man as compared first few games. There is an upside here and the offense IS improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp on da' net Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Graham ran the wrong route. He was probably in there because Jones and Jackson were on the sidelines woozy.. That interception is on him. Speculation on whether that throw is on the mark for the "correct" route is just not productive. For all those that will use any thread to post a "Fitz sucks" note... I don't think you can do it here. He played extremely well. Including that last drive. Graham said it himself.. It was his fault. Jones was in the game at that time if you review the video. Btw he's open as well & a better option (then CJ) because he could get out of bounds if not score IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Fitz is what we got so i will stay pro Ryan till we draft . he had a very good game coming off his improved game against Houston. But one thing i have noticed, is that he makes up his mind early no matter how many look offs he gives. Maybe in Chans play calling he has everyone getting at the " I'M about to be open" window at the same time. I have seen it many time each game that other players are "were the better choice " even if the pass is completed. easy for me , right ? But rewinding games, Ryan seems to get a mind set and since its all timing with Chan, he commits before the seperation. I think he can improve on this because the offense is getting much better at beating their man as compared first few games. There is an upside here and the offense IS improving. Yeah its been 3 years and Fitz is improving via interceptions. Yep, stick with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yeah its been 3 years and Fitz is improving via interceptions. Yep, stick with him Whats our option this season ? yep we dont have one. And i dont feel like wasting the season being pissed. Thats just me though : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Jones was in the game at that time if you review the video. Btw he's open as well & a better option (then CJ) because he could get out of bounds if not score IMO. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) If you really look closely at that play, forget the pass to CJ over the middle (though CJ seems to be the master of changing directions on a dime), and you will see that Donald Jones is wide, wide open around the two yard line, close to the sideline...I have no doubt that, assuming Fitz was completely off the mark, Jones catches a pass there and runs it in the final two yards, or is able to get out of bounds...it was 1st & 10 with 28 seconds on the clock...there was no need to take consecutive shots at the endzone like that, IMO. The Pats were playing the enzone... I don't want to kill Fitz, cuz if he completes that one single pass, we are all agreeing (I think) he played pretty well...but, honeslty, if you watch that play, and you can see everything, Graham (not because he is a rookie, but where he is on the field) was probably the worst option on that play. That is, to me, the biggest mistake on the play...Fitz wasn't reacting to what was there, he was just determined he was going to throw it in the endzone..there was too much time left to force something... Precisely. The more I watch this thing, the only guy who WASN'T open besides Graham is Chandler. Stevie Johnson, Donald Jones and- I'm sorry at that point going to CJ Spiller is never a bad option, I don't care what the situation is- Spiller are all wide open. Edited November 13, 2012 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paupmvp1995 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 So I know this is being discuss in multiple other threads in other topics. I think we need one place to discuss this as it likely will be a hot button topic for the week, (and likely until we play the Pats again next year.) Mods if you collapse this thread please keep the title. I watched the play a few dozen times now. You can watch the play here: http://www.nfl.com/v...ne-interception 1.) TJ Graham is clearly supposed to run his route infront of the defenders in the end zone. We have seen David Nelson run this route many times and Scott Chandler run this route a few times. The Safties and Corners are in the end zone and TJ Graham is supposed to cut in front of them and not run in the midst of them. This was a boneheaded rookie mistake. TJ Graham doesn't even seem to be aware he is a viable option as he is starring at the goal post for most of the play. I don't think TJ Graham was anywhere near the top option on that play. This is just one specific example of how much Fitzpatrick misses his David Nelson security blanket. That expected route looks like David Nelson's signature inside route. 2.) McCourty had to jump in the air when he was 5 yards deep in the end zone to catch the interception. If Statement 1 is correct and Fitzpatrick was looking for TJ Graham to break in front of the defenders why was the ball thrown so High? If you watch the flight of the ball, the Ball would have been way over TJ Graham's head if he broke infront of the defenders.TJ Graham would have likely had to jump in order to catch, and Jump real high; exposing himself to a big time hit by those safties and corners. If Fitzpatrick would have thrown the ball where it should have been located on that play, At TJ Graham's Numbers OR LOWER. In this situation with a 6'0" receiver the Ball should have landed safely on the ground two yards deep in the end zone. That ball should have been at TJ's Numbers or LOWER. So not only did TJ Graham run the wrong route but it appears Fitzpatrick had poor ball placement on the play, like usual. This is another example of how the 6'5" David Nelson and 6'7" Scott Chandler that usually run this route might have actually made the play. But the 6'0" TJ Graham even if TJ broke infront of the defenders he might not have made the play given the height of the throw. 3.) CJ Spiller is pretty open in space on that play. If you're going to take your best playmaker out of the backfield and get him in open space what better position to throw him the ball with time on the clock. If you watch the timing of throw to where TJ Graham is on the field it just seems off even if you're expecting TJ Graham to break inside. Its obviously easy to watch the play 36 times on nfl.com, knowing the outcome and make a judgment as compared to being in the pocket. TJ Graham is staring at the goalpost for the majority of the play. CJ Spiller is open in space. He likely wouldn't get in the end zone, he likely would get within the 5. Spike the Ball and you have 2nd and goal. CJ Spiller also was ready and aware of the situation and wanted the ball. TJ Graham was not. I'm emotionally exhausted. I can't take these **** Sandwiches this team is feeding us for much longer. Thanks for posting the video. Watching it again for the first time since Sunday, it is obvious that Fitz made a horrible decision. No reason to throw deep in the endzone when the Pats have that part of the field covered. CJ was breaking across at the 10 and if he gets that ball, he is easily inside the 5 and possibly could have made a quick dart to his left and scored. Stevie had run by his man on the left sideline and is wide open in the back left part of the end zone. And Donald Jones is also wide open on the rt sideline inside the 5 yrd line as well, and would have walked in the end zone. Watch how much effort Fitz has to use to throw that ball. As a result it would have been high and a little behind him if TJ would have cut inside to his left at the goalline. Just a bad decision by Fitz. Time is running out on his tenure as our starting QB. Sure he can put up some numbers against marginal teams, but when it comes to crunch time when the pressure is on, he always falters. What more can you say. The good ones get it done when the game is on the line, and the not so good ones don't more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The most ironic thing is just how BEAUTIFULLY designed that play was. Fitz had so many options -- Stevie in the end zone to the left, CJ in the flat to the left, Chandler underneath to the right, and Graham to the end zone on the right -- that had the Patriots blitzed, Fitz would have had an open and quick target. The offensive line did a great job giving Fitz plenty of time. he had enough time to look right, left and then right again. In fact, the initial look to the right had drawn the DBs to that side and left Stevie alone in the back of the end zone. It is debatable whether or not CJ could have scored as there was one defender in front of him trying to protect the first down marker. However, he was certainly wide open and would have likely converted the first down, if not scored. If Graham was indeed the primary target on that play, the Gleason was right in his column this morning blaming Chan for over-thinking the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 chan always overthinks the play it seems when it counts most. too many head scratching endings for my tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but it was the penultimate play in Foxborough - on the final play Brady knelt on the ball for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Gump Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 TJ has never run that route in a game before. He ran it in training camp....way back in August. Great time for Chan to call that play having a rookie run a route he hasn't practiced all season. Idiotic play call in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts