ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Don't bother. The fact that the offense and special teams gave away 13 points and the defense scored 7 is complete lost on them. They will never get how these facts were the iceberg to the team's titanic failure yesterday. 191780[/snapback] You're probably right......you know what, though? I bet if we didn't have the D and the ST that we do have (i.e. dominant units), and the offense (i.e. Drew) was exposed for what it really is, they'd be just as pissed off about it as we are now. Every area of our team has improved this season except the QB position. The line is better, Willis is a friggin stud, Evans is a friggin stud, Shelton has become valuable, the D is better all around, and the ST are better. Let's play "who's the slacker"!!!!!!!!!
MRW Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I can't understand those who seem to want to absolve the defense of all blame. Should the offense have performed better? Of course. But let's not pretend that we have a dominant defense if we can't rely on them to stop a team of backups from executing a 9-minute drive consisting solely of running plays. You're probably never going to have a situation where your offense, defense, and special teams are all awesome, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the supposed strength of this team to give the ball back to the offense with time to do something.
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I can't understand those who seem to want to absolve the defense of all blame. Should the offense have performed better? Of course. But let's not pretend that we have a dominant defense if we can't rely on them to stop a team of backups from executing a 9-minute drive consisting solely of running plays. You're probably never going to have a situation where your offense, defense, and special teams are all awesome, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the supposed strength of this team to give the ball back to the offense with time to do something. 191802[/snapback] Stop Making Sense. We're busy pretending the defense was perfect and the only reason they got run over in the fourth quarter is because Drew Bledsoe sucked. I am Mr. Rourke, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Island.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I can't understand those who seem to want to absolve the defense of all blame. Should the offense have performed better? Of course. But let's not pretend that we have a dominant defense if we can't rely on them to stop a team of backups from executing a 9-minute drive consisting solely of running plays. You're probably never going to have a situation where your offense, defense, and special teams are all awesome, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the supposed strength of this team to give the ball back to the offense with time to do something. 191802[/snapback] I agree with you.......and your point about how the O, D, and ST are all going to be awesome is well taken......and that is exactly why I'm not willing to blame the D. In the first half, the D did exactly what it's been doing for us all year......forcing turnovers and keeping teams out of the endzone. The special teams gave them the ball deep in our territory early on. Then Bledsoe did the same thing. But the D kept the game in hand by forcing them into field goal attempts instead of TDs. The Defense has given the offense a ton of extra opportunties all year via turnovers. They did the same thing in this game. And you're right, you can't expect any one phase of the team to be strong all the time. The difference was that the D did more than enough to win this game, had the offense been able to do SOMETHING. Did you see how many balls Drew put on the numbers of the other team? Or how many passes were so far off the mark that it was embarrassing? Or the time when he SHOTPUTTED the friggin ball back to Shaud, who didn't know WHAT the hell Drew was doing.......or the time when Drew got sacked, fumbled, and gave up a TD all in the same play? No, theres no way in hell I'm going to blame the defense for any of this.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Stop Making Sense. We're busy pretending the defense was perfect and the only reason they got run over in the fourth quarter is because Drew Bledsoe sucked. I am Mr. Rourke, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Island. 191805[/snapback] Of all people I would think would recognize the game for what it was yesterday, I figured you'd be at the top of the list. I don't understand it........the offense was horrendous.
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Or the time when he SHOTPUTTED the friggin ball back to Shaud, who didn't know WHAT the hell Drew was doing 191810[/snapback] Shaud also didn't know what the hell HE was supposed to be doing. Otherwise he'd have been on Shelton's hip where he belonged instead of standing there drooling like BF in a titty bar.
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Of all people I would think would recognize the game for what it was yesterday, I figured you'd be at the top of the list. I don't understand it........the offense was horrendous. 191812[/snapback] I didn't absolve the offense of any of the blame and have stated at least a couple of times that the playcalling was bizarro and the loss of CV showed just how pathetic our guard depth truly is (not strong enough phrasing, really). That doesn't change the fact that the defense SPIT THE BIT when we needed them the most - in a VERY embarrassing manner.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Shaud also didn't know what the hell HE was supposed to be doing. Otherwise he'd have been on Shelton's hip where he belonged instead of standing there drooling like BF in a titty bar. 191813[/snapback] I don't know why talking about Drew reminded me of this.......but have you ever seen Dumb and Dumber? Do you remember the scene where Harry takes a snowball and just nails Lauren Holly in the head with it? That's what it looked like Bledsoe was about to do to Shaud........but instead of that, it turned into the shotput. Drew loses his mojo in big games.......it's like having the lost stooge at QB.
MRW Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 No, theres no way in hell I'm going to blame the defense for any of this. 191810[/snapback] Did the defense play well enough for the offense to win? For most of the game, they did. But they failed when the team needed them most. Are they more to blame than the offense, and specifically Drew's horrific performance? No, but the fact remains, for what should be the backbone of this team, they did not do their job. I'm probably coming across as faulting the defense more than I actually do, I just don't think what happened should be ignored. A top-notch defense stops that drive. Period.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I didn't absolve the offense of any of the blame and have stated at least a couple of times that the playcalling was bizarro and the loss of CV showed just how pathetic our guard depth truly is (not strong enough phrasing, really). That doesn't change the fact that the defense SPIT THE BIT when we needed them the most - in a VERY embarrassing manner. 191816[/snapback] Okay......so even though they forced three turnovers (one of which was for a TD) and kept them out of the endzone on several short field situations, overall the D was the reason we lost? I'm sorry, if Drew went 18/30 with 3TDs and one interception, even I wouldn't be hacking on him for the loss........that's why your argument makes no sense to me. The D did much more to win the game than they did to lose it. The same can't be said of the offense.
MRW Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I didn't absolve the offense of any of the blame and have stated at least a couple of times that the playcalling was bizarro and the loss of CV showed just how pathetic our guard depth truly is (not strong enough phrasing, really). That doesn't change the fact that the defense SPIT THE BIT when we needed them the most - in a VERY embarrassing manner. 191816[/snapback] I think part of the problem is people assume opinions about the team/game come all bundled together, so if you criticize the defense, you're trying to deflect blame from Bledsoe. After the game I was arguing with my brother a bit because I was trying to make the point that we need a better O-line to really take the next step, to be able to run the ball the way Pittsburgh did when we knew it was coming. He took that to mean that I thought the bad game was the fault of the O-line more than Drew. It gets annoying to have to constantly include disclaimers saying that Drew did play poorly and I don't think he's the answer at QB.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Did the defense play well enough for the offense to win? For most of the game, they did. But they failed when the team needed them most. Are they more to blame than the offense, and specifically Drew's horrific performance? No, but the fact remains, for what should be the backbone of this team, they did not do their job. I'm probably coming across as faulting the defense more than I actually do, I just don't think what happened should be ignored. A top-notch defense stops that drive. Period. 191818[/snapback] I dunno, I just can't fault them for being shown up on one drive, when that drive should not have meant anything to begin with. Just a difference of opinion, I guess.
MRW Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Okay......so even though they forced three turnovers (one of which was for a TD) and kept them out of the endzone on several short field situations, overall the D was the reason we lost? 191820[/snapback] I think this right here is the key to my difference of opinion with you. I don't think you can look at the game and say "This is THE reason we lost." Who had the most to do with the loss? Drew. A bit more awareness on that blitz/fumble/TD and maybe we're looking at overcoming a 5-point lead at the end of the game. That said, if Lindell makes that kick, maybe we keep some momentum. If the defense stops Pitt's backups with a few more minutes left, maybe we have time to kick deep and not have to rely on an onside. There's plenty of blame to go around after a game like that.
1billsfan Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Stop Making Sense. We're busy pretending the defense was perfect and the only reason they got run over in the fourth quarter is because Drew Bledsoe sucked. I am Mr. Rourke, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Island. 191805[/snapback] Defense: 3 turnovers, 1 touchdown for the Bills. Offense: 3 turnovers (Bills territory), 1 touchdown and 2 fieldgoals for the Steelers, 2 of 13 on 3rd down conversions. Fantasy Island: Our defense cost us the game because they could not get off the field in the 4th.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I think this right here is the key to my difference of opinion with you. I don't think you can look at the game and say "This is THE reason we lost." Who had the most to do with the loss? Drew. A bit more awareness on that blitz/fumble/TD and maybe we're looking at overcoming a 5-point lead at the end of the game. That said, if Lindell makes that kick, maybe we keep some momentum. If the defense stops Pitt's backups with a few more minutes left, maybe we have time to kick deep and not have to rely on an onside. There's plenty of blame to go around after a game like that. 191834[/snapback] Do you remember when Helmet Head took over the Dolphins and he was asked about Dan Marino's job security? Jimmuh told a story about how when he was with the Cowboys, he NEVER treated players the same........he gave the example of Troy Aikman falling asleep at a meeting, and how if he ever saw that he'd very calmly go over, tap him on the shoulder, and wake him up. If it was an unproven or underachieving player who was falling asleep in the meeting, however, he'd be tempted to cut his asss right then and there. He said he clearly played favorites and he always treated players differently. Well, to me, this pertains to a football team and it's various units. The defense has brought their A game MUCH more consistently this year than the O or the ST. To me, they have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their play. I think that's why I just cannot bring myself to place the blame upon their shoulders......not even a little. Drew was the underachieving player falling asleep in the meeting........and if it were up to me, I'd have cut his asss as soon as that embarrassment of a game was over.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Defense: 3 turnovers, 1 touchdown for the Bills.Offense: 3 turnovers (Bills territory), 1 touchdown and 2 fieldgoals for the Steelers, 2 of 13 on 3rd down conversions. Fantasy Island: Our defense cost us the game because they could not get off the field in the 4th. 191836[/snapback] Hell, I didn't even know about the 2 of 13 on 3rd down.........lol
MRW Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 The defense has brought their A game MUCH more consistently this year than the O or the ST. To me, they have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their play. I think that's why I just cannot bring myself to place the blame upon their shoulders......not even a little. 191841[/snapback] While I don't share this POV, I can respect it. I think we've gotten as far as we can expect with this debate.
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Okay......so even though they forced three turnovers (one of which was for a TD) and kept them out of the endzone on several short field situations, overall the D was the reason we lost? I'm sorry, if Drew went 18/30 with 3TDs and one interception, even I wouldn't be hacking on him for the loss........that's why your argument makes no sense to me. The D did much more to win the game than they did to lose it. The same can't be said of the offense. 191820[/snapback] TEAMS lose games. The defense didn't do enough. The offense didn't do enough. The special teams didn't do enough. The coaches didn't do enough. I don't care about individual statistics. I care about scoreboard. Your argument makes even less sense.
ajzepp Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 TEAMS lose games. The defense didn't do enough. The offense didn't do enough. The special teams didn't do enough. The coaches didn't do enough. I don't care about individual statistics. I care about scoreboard. Your argument makes even less sense. 191855[/snapback] Okay, so if Willis fumbles four times on the 1 yd line and we lose the game 21-20, it was a team loss, huh?
Casey D Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 TEAMS lose games. The defense didn't do enough. The offense didn't do enough. The special teams didn't do enough. The coaches didn't do enough. I don't care about individual statistics. I care about scoreboard. Your argument makes even less sense. 191855[/snapback] Bingo. If any one of the three units played lights out, we would have won. The real issue is, how far below their best did each unit play. We already knew this team is unlikely to win by Bledsoe and the offense putting the team on its shoulders and winning, it is not that good. What is special about this team is its defense and ST. The offense played slightly below its norm, which is pretty low. The ST was way below its norm, and the defense pretty far below its norm, especially when it could not stop a one dimensional offense from racking up 160 yards of rushing offense. In absolute terms, the defense played the best game, followed by the offense and special teams. But in relative terms-- based on what we've come to need and expect from each unit-- the offense and defense were equally bad, and the special teams horrendous. But I guess some people refuse to accept that.
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