C.Biscuit97 Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 He trusts his pre-snap reads too much and gets baited into throwing into coverages that he didn't think were there. The resulting interceptions, incompletions, and failed 3rd down conversions do help keep the sack tally low though. Finally, the lack of accuracy nips completions in the bud even when his read may be right. Agreed 100%. His physical limitations hold him back. If only Fitz had the body of Cam Newton. It's be a great 80s movie.
Beerball Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 Fitz is one of the least sacked QBs since he has become a starter. The oline deserves credit but so does Fitz. Part of the problem is his size and he has to throw to spots because he struggles to see in the pocket. That's why he should be rolled out more IMO. I see you left off the pertinent part of my post. Not getting sacked doesn't equal pocket presence.
NoSaint Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 luck makes hard things look easy fitz makes easy things look hard. i think that sums up the problem at hand
Toledo Bill Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 His pocket presence is fine. he simply does not have a major league arm.
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 I see you left off the pertinent part of my post. Not getting sacked doesn't equal pocket presence. I don't know man. Personally, I don't see the big difference in the pocket between Fitz and Luck. Luck took a bad sack last night that he could have avoided. It happens but it's not that glaring of a difference than say that of Flutie vs. Rob johnson. luck makes hard things look easy fitz makes easy things look hard. i think that sums up the problem at hand And that pretty much is the nail of the head and why I struggle to kill Fitz like some fans do. He gets the absolutely most out of his abilities. He is a better QB than Losman and Edwards despite having far less physical talent. And Luck blows him away in this category.
RyanC883 Posted November 9, 2012 Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) Yeah, this is almost laughable. Fitz is very good at the pocket and as good as the oline is, he's a big reason we avoid sacks. Of all the ways to knock Fitz compared to Luck, this is at the bottom of the list. The thing I don't get is why they don't move Fitz around more. He's a pretty mobile and tough QB. Roll him out of the pocket and give him more options. Fitz with his arm and size will never be a good pocket passer. I agree that they need to roll him out more. This is because he is a terrible pocket passer. He avoids sacks because he throws the ball way too soon. He is jittery in the pocket. My favorite are the plays where he incorrectly anticipates pressure, setps up and throws in a ducking position like he's about to be hit. And the O-line is above average with Livertrie, Wood, and Glenn. I don't know man. Personally, I don't see the big difference in the pocket between Fitz and Luck. Luck took a bad sack last night that he could have avoided. It happens but it's not that glaring of a difference than say that of Flutie vs. Rob johnson. And that pretty much is the nail of the head and why I struggle to kill Fitz like some fans do. He gets the absolutely most out of his abilities. He is a better QB than Losman and Edwards despite having far less physical talent. And Luck blows him away in this category. Fitz does get the most out of his abilities. Unfortunately they are those of a backup QB. Fitz is not really the problem, the problem is the inability of Chan and Nix to realize his limitations and act on them. (i.e. empty sets on 3rd and 3, Nix not getting a QB to challenge him) Edited November 9, 2012 by RyanC883
BringBackFergy Posted November 9, 2012 Author Posted November 9, 2012 Made the same point in the shoutbox last night. I was quickly told that since he was playing Jacksonville I shouldn't draw any conclusions. Sure, like arm strength and field awareness are going to evaporate against stronger competition. It sure is obvious Luck can negotiate around the pocket and doesn't look flustered...yes, he gets sacked, but he also can move up in the pocket, set his feet and fire downfield. Fitz always has a case of Happy Feet and feels the need to release the ball within 2 seconds or he gets nervous (IMO) Guess we were watching different games then. Avoiding sacks by running or dumping the ball off do not equal pocket presence. Pocket presence is that little slide to the left when you feel pressure, it's moving up in the pocket, keeping your eyes downfield and throwing a strike TO GET THE FIRST DOWN. I was going to say the same thing. The fact that Fitz throws the ball in 2 seconds and avoids a sack because he checked down to a RB (when another QB holds onto it for 3 seconds because he moves up in the pocket or to an opening near the pocket and completes a 20 yd pass to the WR) is the difference. The fact that he doesn't get sacked much is a tribute to his decision to release the ball quick rather than negotiating around the pocket for an extra second or two to see the WR downfield. luck makes hard things look easy fitz makes easy things look hard. i think that sums up the problem at hand Brief and to the point. Well said.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 I was going to say the same thing. The fact that Fitz throws the ball in 2 seconds and avoids a sack because he checked down to a RB (when another QB holds onto it for 3 seconds because he moves up in the pocket or to an opening near the pocket and completes a 20 yd pass to the WR) is the difference. The fact that he doesn't get sacked much is a tribute to his decision to release the ball quick rather than negotiating around the pocket for an extra second or two to see the WR downfield. But that's not him. He's not checking the ball down. He doesn't get jittery. He feels the rush very well. He does a good job of hanging in the pocket and looking downfield and throwing downfield when there's a play there. You can knock the guy for him arm, decision-making, accuracy, etc. But he is (seriously) really savvy in the pocket.
NoSaint Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 But that's not him. He's not checking the ball down. He doesn't get jittery. He feels the rush very well. He does a good job of hanging in the pocket and looking downfield and throwing downfield when there's a play there. You can knock the guy for him arm, decision-making, accuracy, etc. But he is (seriously) really savvy in the pocket. Not if part of his mechanics issue is not moving well in the pocket to get his needed footwork and throwing lanes to make better informed and more accurate throws. He throws well from odd spots but he doesn't have to get into the odd spots as often as he does. He's good enough but not better than average among starters with presence. I don't see how you could watch many qbs and say anything beyond fitz decides quickly with regards to his presence.
JESSEFEFFER Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) This is a get the ball out quick, spread offense. Fitz is both aware and decisive and sacks are kept low. He does not routinely seek to buy time to make a play. The third pick in the 1st Pats game would be one example with a bad outcome. Many of Fitz's worst plays were tied to Erik Pears' struggles. The guy has a leg/hip/groin injury and could not anchor. He was often beat off the snap or just driven right back into his lap. Designing some space/time into some of the passing plays by rollouts, boots, and max protects would be a good idea, IMO. Creating some doubt in the defenders' minds about from where and when the ball may come out would be a plus. Having Hairston in for a gimpy Pears may allow it to happen. By the way, the man will take a beating in the name of executing the play, often just before he gets wrecked. He is no coward. Edited November 10, 2012 by JESSEFEFFER
FreakPop Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 This is a get the ball out quick, spread offense. Fitz is both aware and decisive and sacks are kept low. He does not routinely seek to buy time to make a play. The third pick in the 1st Pats game would be one example with a bad outcome. Many of Fitz's worst plays were tied to Erik Pears' struggles. The guy has a leg/hip/groin injury and could not anchor. He was often beat off the snap or just driven right back into his lap. Designing some space/time into some of the passing plays by rollouts, boots, and max protects would be a good idea, IMO. Creating some doubt in the defenders' minds about from where and when the ball may come out would be a plus. Having Hairston in for a gimpy Pears may allow it to happen. By the way, the man will take a beating in the name of executing the play, often just before he gets wrecked. He is no coward. agreed
BringBackFergy Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 Don't think anyone said he's a coward. He has a different sort of pocket presence that relies on outlet receivers with minimal time in the pocket (hence less sacks). Traditional pocket passers like Brady can sit in the pocket, move forward, and after 3 seconds or so, his receivers have more time to get downfield.I'm a Fitz fan...but have realized he does things differently and isn't long term answer.
Rico Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 But that's not him. He's not checking the ball down. He doesn't get jittery. He feels the rush very well. He does a good job of hanging in the pocket and looking downfield and throwing downfield when there's a play there. You can knock the guy for him arm, decision-making, accuracy, etc. But he is (seriously) really savvy in the pocket. Exactly, his pocket presence is a strength, not a weakness.
NoSaint Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 Exactly, his pocket presence is a strength, not a weakness. It's one of the better things he does, not that he's among the better in the league.
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