3rdnlng Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Obama touted "his" increased oil and gas production but has really put a damper on real production. Drilling permits on federally controlled property are significantly down (40% or so). Our massive energy reserves could make us energy independent and a net energy exporter. This is important to us for two basic reasons---our economy and our security. Will Obama stick to his narrow idealogical tilting at windmills and forcing square pegs into round holes with the likes of Solyndra, or will he become a pragmatist and unleash our real power? What would it do for our economy to have the cheapest energy in the world? What would it do for our security to be able to flip the Middle east the bird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Come In Peace Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Obama touted "his" increased oil and gas production but has really put a damper on real production. Drilling permits on federally controlled property are significantly down (40% or so). Our massive energy reserves could make us energy independent and a net energy exporter. This is important to us for two basic reasons---our economy and our security. Will Obama stick to his narrow idealogical tilting at windmills and forcing square pegs into round holes with the likes of Solyndra, or will he become a pragmatist and unleash our real power? What would it do for our economy to have the cheapest energy in the world? What would it do for our security to be able to flip the Middle east the bird? The cheapest energy in the world isn't fossil fuels. Free Energy has been kept from the people for decades -- sadly that will continue. For a little while longer at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) What would it do for our economy to have the cheapest energy in the world? not much (unless you're talking about some new renewable source yet to be discovered) What would it do for our security to be able to flip the Middle east the bird? not much I think this is an issue that gets lots of lip service but doesn't really mean much except maybe symbolically. As it is we produce something like 70% of our own. We haven't had a significant disruption in supply for decades. Canada is self-sufficient and they still have high gas prices. Terrorism is not funded by oil money. The Middle East will always be a mess because they fight over stuff more fundamental than will be affected by oil. Also, parts of the Middle East will always hate us. That hatred will not be reduced by us ceasing to do business with them. Edited November 8, 2012 by gringo starr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Obama touted "his" increased oil and gas production but has really put a damper on real production. Drilling permits on federally controlled property are significantly down (40% or so). Our massive energy reserves could make us energy independent and a net energy exporter. This is important to us for two basic reasons---our economy and our security. Will Obama stick to his narrow idealogical tilting at windmills and forcing square pegs into round holes with the likes of Solyndra, or will he become a pragmatist and unleash our real power? What would it do for our economy to have the cheapest energy in the world? What would it do for our security to be able to flip the Middle east the bird? Inexpensive energy is always a positive, there it no denying that. My question is, even if we increase production in the US, if the commodity is sold on a global marketplace, how does that neccesrily bring prices down sharply here? It we produce more and put in the market, other countries are likely to increase they're usuage as well. If we kept the oil here, Nationalized the process and kept prices artificially low, then I see it. I am not saying I think production here should not increase, but I don't see the price drop everybody theorizes (except for Michelle Bachman... if she would have won 11/6- gas would be $2 a gallon right now) Edited November 8, 2012 by B-Large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Inexpensive energy is always a positive, there it no denying that. My question is, even if we increase production in the US, if the commodity is sold on a global marketplace, how does that neccesrily bring prices down sharply here? It we produce more and put in the market, other countries are likely to increase they're usuage as well. If we kept the oil here, Nationalized the process and kept prices artificially low, then I see it. I am not saying I think production here should not increase, but I don't see the price drop everybody theorizes (except for Michelle Bachman... if she would have won 11/6- gas would be $2 a gallon right now) Without nationalizing it it just won't do much. Alaska produces more gas than they can ever use and the price at the pump is about $4... Edited November 8, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 not much (unless you're talking about some new renewable source yet to be discovered) not much I think this is an issue that gets lots of lip service but doesn't really mean much except maybe symbolically. As it is we produce something like 70% of our own. We haven't had a significant disruption in supply for decades. Canada is self-sufficient and they still have high gas prices. Terrorism is not funded by oil money. The Middle East will always be a mess because they fight over stuff more fundamental than will be affected by oil. Also, parts of the Middle East will always hate us. That hatred will not be reduced by us ceasing to do business with them. Why are Canadian gas prices high? What is preventing the U.S. from forcing them down in-country? Why throw out these canards (bolded part)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Can I increase the sale price of my house 4-5% to compensate for the ACA/Obamacare tax I will now have to pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Why are Canadian gas prices high? What is preventing the U.S. from forcing them down in-country? Why throw out these canards (bolded part)? How are these statements canards? I thought I was stating the obvious. Which of these statements is untrue? And as for prices, I don't know. Maybe you can tell us. You brought it up. I mean that--I'm no expert here. If you have a good suggestion, I'm willing to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Without nationalizing it it just won't do much. Alaska produces more gas than they can ever use and the price at the pump is about $4... Alaska produces a lot of oil. I'm aware of world markets and am not against coming to agreements with producers to keep the price of oil low for oil sold here in the U.S., pumped from federal land or offshore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Why are Canadian gas prices high? What is preventing the U.S. from forcing them down in-country? Why throw out these canards (bolded part)? Taxes on gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Taxes on gas. Rhetorical question. Anyway, what are the taxes on gasoline in Quebec? Are there taxes on it other than at the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 7% of the price at the pump is profit. 48% is the cost of extraction, production, and delivery. 45% is taxes. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 7% of the price at the pump is profit. 48% is the cost of extraction, production, and delivery. 45% is taxes. Just sayin. Based on what price of oil per barrel? Oil was about 1/3 of its price now in late 2008 when gas prices were about 1/2. Are taxes figured at a percentage or fixed amount per gallon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Based on what price of oil per barrel? Oil was about 1/3 of its price now in late 2008 when gas prices were about 1/2. Are taxes figured at a percentage or fixed amount per gallon? President isn't the God of oil and gas prices. In late 2008 prices were low and going down b/c world demand was dropping due to crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Business modeling is almost always presented in % costs. In these terms, oil extraction is one of the most reliably and consistently modeled, as profits have hovered at around 7% of pump reciepts for years. The taxes have varied, however. The numbers I presented are for the year 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 President isn't the God of oil and gas prices. In late 2008 prices were low and going down b/c world demand was dropping due to crash. Yes, I understand that the President isn't the "God" of oil and gas prices. You are not understanding my point and are just getting all defensive over Obama. Policy can influence them though, and my concern is that Obama would prefer higher prices now that he doesn't have an election to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Business modeling is almost always presented in % costs. In these terms, oil extraction is one of the most reliably and consistently modeled, as profits have hovered at around 7% of pump reciepts for years. The taxes have varied, however. The numbers I presented are for the year 2011. There is a price point where it is no longer profitable to explore and drill for oil. Do we know what that is? Certain costs are fixed such as transportation and refining. If oil drops to 1/3 of what it is now, but everything else is pretty much fixed, then how can gas prices be cut in half when taxes are nearly half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Deflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Yes, I understand that the President isn't the "God" of oil and gas prices. You are not understanding my point and are just getting all defensive over Obama. Policy can influence them though, and my concern is that Obama would prefer higher prices now that he doesn't have an election to deal with. 3rd, as kindly as I can from me to you I ask you, please...please just approach Obama as a man who you disagree with politically...but not as the man certain personalities would have you believe he is. He is not trying to intentionally raise prices on us...it is true that he is focused on new energy sources and conservation, however there is not some conspiracy to spike the price of gas at the same time he is desperately trying (however much you may disagree with his methods) to get the economy going. It is probably true he does not see the future of energy the same way a few really pro-oil guys do, but he's not trying to spike our price at the pump. And there really isn't a whole lot any policy of his could do to lower our gas prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 3rd, as kindly as I can from me to you I ask you, please...please just approach Obama as a man who you disagree with politically...but not as the man certain personalities would have you believe he is. He is not trying to intentionally raise prices on us...it is true that he is focused on new energy sources and conservation, however there is not some conspiracy to spike the price of gas at the same time he is desperately trying (however much you may disagree with his methods) to get the economy going. It is probably true he does not see the future of energy the same way a few really pro-oil guys do, but he's not trying to spike our price at the pump. And there really isn't a whole lot any policy of his could do to lower our gas prices. http://www.therightsphere.com/2011/04/flashback-obama-energy-secretary-chu-says-we-must-get-gas-prices-to-the-levels-in-europe/ In a sign of one major internal difference, Mr. Chu has called for gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to coax consumers into buying more-efficient cars and living in neighborhoods closer to work. “Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September. And now you’re paying $4 a gallon. not quite European prices, but no fun nonetheless. In President Obama’s defense, he dismissed the notion of raising taxes because of the increased pressure it would put on individual Americans. However, you cannot deny that it has been a task of this administration from day one to combat supposed global warming climate change by raising the prices of energy resources. One cannot forget Obama’s infamous “under my plan, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket” line, his clear animosity towards coal, and his use of the EPA as a lap dog in that fight. I would not put it past them to take on gasoline prices next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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