dayman Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Of course, Hollande was an extreme scenario but it just goes to show the impact of legislation on business planning. Obviously small gains in the rate will not completely kill investment holding all the other factors constant but with the expected drop in growth for next year, the implementation of the ACA and the continuous mess in Europe (including France's crash next year, you heard it here first), there is a good chance that the well to do are holding on to their cash until the mess clears up and foregoing income to avoid taxes. As soon as the economy hits rock bottom, they'll do what they do best and purchase assets at rock bottom. A plan to help the middle and poor classes will effectively help the rich much more. Welcome to the progressive left. Nobody is throwing money around while there's a mess that has yet to hit rock bottom either way. When people feel it is over and climbing and there is money to be made, an extra 5% isn't going to scare away the capital needed to bounce back every bit as strong as we are capable of. It's not as if I don't hear all points made and to some extent agree...all I'm saying is 23% =/= France and 23% when we're growing is fine for investors if that is what it comes down to. Europe is crazy, even China and India are sluggish as a result relative to what they expect...when we pick up we'll be a great place to invest whether it's 23 or 18. And that 5% by itself isn't going to stop of us from picking up when we're ready...the capital is there and waiting for the storm to clear when it does if there's an extra 5% skimmed off it'll be fine. Not the end of the world, is all I'm saying. Certainly not if it helps get the house in order and takes a bit of pressure off of the purchasing class spurring demand. Edited November 15, 2012 by TheNewBills
VABills Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Nobody is throwing money around while there's a mess that has yet to hit rock bottom either way. When people feel it is over and climbing and there is money to be made, an extra 5% isn't going to scare away the capital needed to bounce back every bit as strong as we are capable of. It's not as if I don't hear all points made and to some extent agree...all I'm saying is 23% =/= France and 23% when we're growing is fine for investors if that is what it comes down to. Europe is crazy, even China and India are sluggish as a result relative to what they expect...when we pick up we'll be a great place to invest whether it's 23 or 18. And that 5% by itself isn't going to stop of us from picking up when we're ready...the capital is there and waiting for the storm to clear when it does if there's an extra 5% skimmed off it'll be fine. Not the end of the world, is all I'm saying. Certainly not if it helps get the house in order and takes a bit of pressure off of the purchasing class spurring demand. The other issue you have though is the government is taking an "extra 5%" out of the investors pockets. They don't like that. They will make it back. That extra money will be through higher prices on products. Guess who pays that? The poor and middle class when they buy products from companies that have investors. Trust em the only people that will pay are folks like you and me, because these folks will not loss money whether by extra taxes or more regulations. They will just pass it on to us. That's why gas prices are so high. That's why car prices keep going up (you have to have airbags says the government so up go prices to pay to add them in).
meazza Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 TNB, it's fine you agree with me but my point about all this was effectively my last sentence. The entire purpose of all the taxes and adjustments to the budget is to cut the budget and give some benefit to those who need it the most. My argument is that these policies will fundamentally help those who need it the least. If I'm correct (and I obviously think I am), then this government has failed before it has even tried.
dayman Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 TNB, it's fine you agree with me but my point about all this was effectively my last sentence. The entire purpose of all the taxes and adjustments to the budget is to cut the budget and give some benefit to those who need it the most. My argument is that these policies will fundamentally help those who need it the least. If I'm correct (and I obviously think I am), then this government has failed before it has even tried. As per that particular policy, I do not think you are correct. As to the basic line of thinking that noncompetitive taxes will drive business away, I do agree.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 As per that particular policy, I do not think you are correct. As to the basic line of thinking that noncompetitive taxes will drive business away, I do agree. I invest my money where it is best treated. When you tell me that you plan to tax my dividends at 43.8%, my short-term capital gains at 43.3%, and my long-term capital gains at 23%; especially during times that I know will be lean, I won't give you the satisfaction. My money is already strategicly exiting the market. I won't be hurt when the crash these policies cause starves the poor and decimates the middle class. I'll simply make use of my company's deferred compensation plan for the next four years to get my income under the upper limit threshold, sell off my options at the end of december, and continue to liquidate all of my non-qualified investments. I'll then short US markets all the way down the ladder, and buy back in at market lows.
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 What ever happened to " Don't ask what the country can do for, but what you can do for your country" It's both sides. This country has been over run by greedy ass left and right wingers. This country is going down fast and its not Obamas fault. Its our own damn greed!
meazza Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 What ever happened to " Don't ask what the country can do for, but what you can do for your country" It's both sides. This country has been over run by greedy ass left and right wingers. This country is going down fast and its not Obamas fault. Its our own damn greed! What is greed?
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 What is greed? What is a wannabe American?
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 What ever happened to " Don't ask what the country can do for, but what you can do for your country" It's both sides. This country has been over run by greedy ass left and right wingers. This country is going down fast and its not Obamas fault. Its our own damn greed! Agreed. Stop stealing my labor and property with your greed, and I'll allow you a chance to earn some of it. You can't expect a man to hire thieves. Thief.
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 Agreed. Stop stealing my labor and property with your greed, and I'll allow you a chance to earn some of it. You can't expect a man to hire thieves. Thief. prove I stole your money.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 prove I stole your money. This isn't a court of law, and we both know what you are. Thief.
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 This isn't a court of law, and we both know what you are. Thief. Either prove I stole your money or stfu.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 Either prove I stole your money or stfu. The truth hurts, doesn't it. Thief.
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 The truth hurts, doesn't it. Thief. What truth? You haven't proven anything. So either prove it or stfu.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) What truth? You haven't proven anything. So either prove it or stfu. I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your faux-indignation routine. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Stop being a thief, and I'll stop calling you one. Thief. Edited November 16, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your money. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Thief. You are a bigger fool than I thought you are. I would bet anything you still live at home with your parents. You act like a spoiled brat. What are you, twelve?
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) You are a bigger fool than I thought you are. I would bet anything you still live at home with your parents. You act like a spoiled brat. What are you, twelve? I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your faux-indignation routine. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Stop being a thief, and I'll stop calling you one. Thief. Edited November 16, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker
Adam Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your faux-indignation routine. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Stop being a thief, and I'll stop calling you one. Thief. I have to call you on the name calling. Also, if duck isn't a proper name, it shouldn't be capitalized. I do credit you for proper use of a hyphen, that impressed me.
outsidethebox Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your faux-indignation routine. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Stop being a thief, and I'll stop calling you one. Thief. How can I steal from you what you don't have? Like a job or your own apartment. Or a girlfriend. Edited November 16, 2012 by westside
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) I have to call you on the name calling. Also, if duck isn't a proper name, it shouldn't be capitalized. I do credit you for proper use of a hyphen, that impressed me. Words have meanings, and I have aptly used the word "thief" to describe westside. The capitalized usage of the word "Duck" was intentional, as a play on words that holds unique meaning in PPP. Hypens are my friends. How can I steal from you what you don't have? Like a job or your own apartment. Or a girlfriend. I don't see a judge or jury around here, so quit your faux-indignation routine. You believe in taking money you haven't earned that doesn't belong to you. You quack like a Duck, and you walk like a Duck. Stop being a thief, and I'll stop calling you one. Thief. Edited November 16, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker
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