Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 Romney was about as close to a single issue candidate as you'll see. Maybe he added some foreign policy barbs late but for the most part, he never deviated from focusing on the economy. America didn't see either that issue as the main one or didn't like his answers to that problem. He never really explained his position. "We need jobs, I know how to create jobs, I've done it before" is a great line, but it's subject to the law of diminishing returns. George Allen had the same strategy - basically said "I'm for creating jobs." it's garbage. Tell me how you'll do it & why the other guy won't. Plus, In trying to appeal to elements of the base Romney got himself in trouble, particularly with Hispanics, but also with women. In VA they ran a very dishonest (probably THE most dishonest campaign I've ever seen) painting him as a pro-life extremist. That hurt him with simple-minded women who vote with their vaginas, and he never effectively countered it. He needed to address it, flip it, and say "he's trying to distract you...". Instead we got rehashed talking points.
GG Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 You believe it's 47% or more.I also said income tax not SSI, medicare, etc... But even then, unless you're working you don't pay those. Do you honestly believe with all the senior, unemployed, children that 47% of the population is employed and working? Who said this? "47% and actually more do not pay any federal taxes at all."
VABills Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Who said this? "47% and actually more do not pay any federal taxes at all." Ooops, my bad. Please forgive me for my obvious mistake.
TheMadCap Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Even if the economy is a toss up issue, I would think the young hispanic Rubio would beat the "old, white and established" Cuomo or Hillary. The repubs need to immediately hand over the reigns to the young and diverse guns of their party. There are many of them unlike the overwhelmingly white dem leaders. The stereotype Mitt "Richie Rich" Romney face of the party should be a thing of the past starting today. The sad part of Obama winning is that it will end up hurting the people who voted for him the most. Obama won't hurt the working people because they can and will make do for another four years. Absolutely correct! Remember when the GOP ran Bob freaking Dole? The guy was in his 70's, he grew up in an era when "rock n' Roll was the devils music". That and falling off the damn stage doomed him against a younger, charismatic Clinton in 1996. What I am saying is that you are 100% correct. If the GOP has any hope of becoming relevant again, they need to do all of what Rob listed above, and start putting people like Rubio and Ryan as the face of the party, the old white dude GOP party is dead and gone... Edited November 8, 2012 by TheMadCap
RI Bills Fan Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Here's an interesting read on the 47% of Americans who don't pay Federal Income Taxes. And why many of us feel it's a completely disingenuous argument for Republicans to make. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/17/romneys-theory-of-the-taker-class-and-why-it-matters/
49er Fan Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Plus, In trying to appeal to elements of the base Romney got himself in trouble, particularly with Hispanics, but also with women. In VA they ran a very dishonest (probably THE most dishonest campaign I've ever seen) painting him as a pro-life extremist. That hurt him with simple-minded women who vote with their vaginas, and he never effectively countered it. He needed to address it, flip it, and say "he's trying to distract you...". Instead we got rehashed talking points. He's not? Straight from Romney's website (http://www.mittromne...m/issues/values) Mitt Romney is pro-life. He believes it speaks well of the country that almost all Americans recognize that abortion is a problem. And in the quiet of conscience, people of both political parties know that more than a million abortions a year cannot be squared with the good heart of America. Mitt believes that life begins at conception and wishes that the laws of our nation reflected that view. But while the nation remains so divided, he believes that the right next step is for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade – a case of blatant judicial activism that took a decision that should be left to the people and placed it in the hands of unelected judges. With Roe overturned, states will be empowered through the democratic process to determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate. Mitt supports the Hyde Amendment, which broadly bars the use of federal funds for abortions. As president, he will end federal funding for abortion advocates like Planned Parenthood. He will protect the right of health care workers to follow their conscience in their work. And he will nominate judges who know the difference between personal opinion and the law. Because the good heart of America knows no boundaries, a commitment to protecting life should not stop at the water’s edge. Taking innocent life is always wrong and always tragic, wherever it happens. The compassionate instincts of this country should not be silent in the face of injustices like China’s One-Child policy. No one will ever hear a President Romney or his vice president tell the Chinese government that "I fully understand" and won’t “second guess” compulsory sterilization and forced abortion. Americans have a moral duty to uphold the sanctity of life and protect the weakest, most vulnerable and most innocent among us. As president, Mitt will ensure that American laws reflect America’s values of preserving life at home and abroad. Edited November 8, 2012 by 49er Fan
GG Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Ooops, my bad. Please forgive me for my obvious mistake. Ok. Who stole VA's login?
Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 Here's an interesting read on the 47% of Americans who don't pay Federal Income Taxes. And why many of us feel it's a completely disingenuous argument for Republicans to make. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/17/romneys-theory-of-the-taker-class-and-why-it-matters/ It's not disingenuous, it's just an overstatement. But it's kind of hard to cast someone in a positive light who's not paying any income tax while claiming some other guy isn't paying enough. What's disingenuous is calling for increases to top marginal income tax rates & claiming it's targeted at "millionaires & billionaires".
RkFast Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I really need to STOP hearing from !@#$s on the left lecturing me that the GOP needs more diversity. Every !@#$ing woman that joins the GOP is IMMEDIATLEY labeled as a "dumb waitress" or worse by the left. Every black that joins the GOP is IMMEDIATELY lableled as an Uncle Tom. And moderation? Please. You puke that we need more "moderate" candidates...and lecture us how to do it. Then you elect....Alan Grayson and Elizabeth Warren? !@#$ you AND youre hypocrisy. And finally, cut the **** with your "old white guys dont work" meme. I have three words for you on that one.... JOE !@#$ING BIDEN.
Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) He's not? Straight from Romney's website (http://www.mittromne...m/issues/values) Mitt Romney is pro-life. He believes it speaks well of the country that almost all Americans recognize that abortion is a problem. And in the quiet of conscience, people of both political parties know that more than a million abortions a year cannot be squared with the good heart of America. Mitt believes that life begins at conception and wishes that the laws of our nation reflected that view. But while the nation remains so divided, he believes that the right next step is for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade – a case of blatant judicial activism that took a decision that should be left to the people and placed it in the hands of unelected judges. With Roe overturned, states will be empowered through the democratic process to determine their own abortion laws and not have them dictated by judicial mandate. Mitt supports the Hyde Amendment, which broadly bars the use of federal funds for abortions. As president, he will end federal funding for abortion advocates like Planned Parenthood. He will protect the right of health care workers to follow their conscience in their work. And he will nominate judges who know the difference between personal opinion and the law. Because the good heart of America knows no boundaries, a commitment to protecting life should not stop at the water’s edge. Taking innocent life is always wrong and always tragic, wherever it happens. The compassionate instincts of this country should not be silent in the face of injustices like China’s One-Child policy. No one will ever hear a President Romney or his vice president tell the Chinese government that "I fully understand" and won’t “second guess” compulsory sterilization and forced abortion. Americans have a moral duty to uphold the sanctity of life and protect the weakest, most vulnerable and most innocent among us. As president, Mitt will ensure that American laws reflect America’s values of preserving life at home and abroad. Did you just start following politics this week? Mitt got in a lot of trouble with the base for his pro-choice stances & had to "evolve" on the issue. He still maintained the "rape & incest" safety valve. He also never gave any indication he had any problem with birth control. Edit: Based on what you've highlighted I'd say that YOU are the extremist attacking a very reasonable pro-life stance. I'm also guessing you don't understand the Roe decision or what overturning it would mean. I really need to STOP hearing from !@#$s on the left lecturing me that the GOP needs more diversity. Every !@#$ing woman that joins the GOP is IMMEDIATLEY labeled as a "dumb waitress" or worse by the left. Every black that joins the GOP is IMMEDIATELY lableled as an Uncle Tom. And moderation? Please. You puke that we need more "moderate" candidates...and lecture us how to do it. Then you elect....Alan Grayson and Elizabeth Warren? !@#$ you AND youre hypocrisy. And finally, cut the **** with your "old white guys dont work" meme. I have three words for you on that one.... JOE !@#$ING BIDEN. I couldn't agree more. I hate it when Republicans start looking to play identity politics. It's a bullish!t game they should be calling bullsh!t on, not catering to. Edited November 8, 2012 by Rob's House
49er Fan Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Overturning Roe vs. Wade? That's absolutely - * F*CKING * - extremist as far as I am concerned. There are FOUR Supreme Court Justices in their 70s. The fact that Romney is pro-life at any level or even believes a whiff of this stuff makes him utterly un-electable to me. And to most women. And to most Dems. Had Romney won and plausibly won re-election in 2016 he could have swung the Court from 4-4-1 (split plus swing-voter Kennedy) to 7-2 (Rep. majority) within 8 years or less. You had better believe that Dems. are aware of this. Show me a pro-choice Rep. candidate and I'll show you someone that might actually swing Dem. votes. With current Rep. stances on everything - gay marriage, religion in government, prayer in schools, gun control, capital punishment, climate change, creationism vs. evolution, immigration, legalization of marijuana, genetic engineering, censorship - these stances are all extremist in their own right(s) as Dems. see them. And it had better change - or the Rep. party is dead. Edited November 8, 2012 by 49er Fan
RI Bills Fan Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 It's not disingenuous, it's just an overstatement. But it's kind of hard to cast someone in a positive light who's not paying any income tax while claiming some other guy isn't paying enough. What's disingenuous is calling for increases to top marginal income tax rates & claiming it's targeted at "millionaires & billionaires". Did you read the article? Do you understand the driving forces that pushed those percentages to where they are today? It's disingenuous because in large part those people not paying federal income tax aren't paying it because of the Republican (Bush & Regan) Tax Cuts. So what you have is a large % of the population that isn't paying federal income tax, in large part due to tax cuts championed by the Republican Party, who are now being demonized by Republicans for not paying their fair share of taxes.
John Adams Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Overturning Roe vs. Wade? That's absolutely - * F*CKING * - extremist as far as I am concerned. There are FOUR Supreme Court Justices in their 70s. The fact that Romney is pro-life at any level or even believes a whiff of this stuff makes him utterly un-electable to me. And to most women. And to most Dems. Had Romney won and plausibly won re-election in 2016 he could have swung the Court from 4-4-1 (split plus swing-voter Kennedy) to 7-2 (Rep. majority) within 8 years or less. You had better believe that Dems. are aware of this. Show me a pro-choice Rep. candidate and I'll show you someone that might actually swing Dem. votes. With current Rep. stances on everything - gay marriage, religion in government, prayer in schools, gun control, capital punishment, climate change, creationism vs. evolution, immigration, legalization of marijuana, genetic engineering, censorship - these stances are all extremist in their own right(s) as Dems. see them. And it had better change - or the Rep. party is dead. This is like Jim in Anchorage's gay marriage. Interesting to discuss...but we have more pressing issues and the federal government needs to focus on those other issues. Rob is right: Romney never said "Who gives a **** about abortion and gay marriage if you don't have a job?"
Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 Overturning Roe vs. Wade? That's absolutely - * F*CKING * - extremist as far as I am concerned. There are FOUR Supreme Court Justices in their 70s. The fact that Romney is pro-life at any level or even believes a whiff of this stuff makes him utterly un-electable to me. And to most women. And to most Dems. Had Romney won and plausibly won re-election in 2016 he could have swung the Court from 4-4-1 (split plus swing-voter Kennedy) to 7-2 (Rep. majority) within 8 years or less. You had better believe that Dems. are aware of this. Show me a pro-choice Rep. candidate and I'll show you someone that might actually swing Dem. votes. With current Rep. stances on everything - gay marriage, religion in government, prayer in schools, gun control, capital punishment, climate change, creationism vs. evolution, immigration, legalization of marijuana, genetic engineering, censorship - these stances are all extremist in their own right(s) as Dems. see them. And it had better change - or the Rep. party is dead. Explain to me the rationale behind Roe, what its implications are, and what overturning it means. And THEN explain why overturning it would be "extreme".
VABills Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 It's not disingenuous, it's just an overstatement. But it's kind of hard to cast someone in a positive light who's not paying any income tax while claiming some other guy isn't paying enough. What's disingenuous is calling for increases to top marginal income tax rates & claiming it's targeted at "millionaires & billionaires". AND FAIR Corrected that for you.
Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 Did you read the article? Do you understand the driving forces that pushed those percentages to where they are today? It's disingenuous because in large part those people not paying federal income tax aren't paying it because of the Republican (Bush & Regan) Tax Cuts. So what you have is a large % of the population that isn't paying federal income tax, in large part due to tax cuts championed by the Republican Party, who are now being demonized by Republicans for not paying their fair share of taxes. Now who's being disingenuous? People who don't pay Fed income tax aren't being demonized. People who don't pay it AND THEN complain that it isn't fair that people who do pay 35% off the top to the Feds aren't forced, by threat of imprisonment, to pay more are being demonized. One inartful line by a politician does not make a popular revolt.
meazza Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Overturning Roe vs. Wade? That's absolutely - * F*CKING * - extremist as far as I am concerned. There are FOUR Supreme Court Justices in their 70s. The fact that Romney is pro-life at any level or even believes a whiff of this stuff makes him utterly un-electable to me. And to most women. And to most Dems. Had Romney won and plausibly won re-election in 2016 he could have swung the Court from 4-4-1 (split plus swing-voter Kennedy) to 7-2 (Rep. majority) within 8 years or less. You had better believe that Dems. are aware of this. Well look who sounds extreme.
wnyguy Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 This is like Jim in Anchorage's gay marriage. Interesting to discuss...but we have more pressing issues and the federal government needs to focus on those other issues. Rob is right: Romney never said "Who gives a **** about abortion and gay marriage if you don't have a job?" Now that is the real issue, all of these social concerns mean very little when the country collapses.
meazza Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Now that is the real issue, all of these social concerns mean very little when the country collapses. Go ask the Greeks and Spaniards how they feel about their governments social issues
Rob's House Posted November 8, 2012 Author Posted November 8, 2012 This is like Jim in Anchorage's gay marriage. Interesting to discuss...but we have more pressing issues and the federal government needs to focus on those other issues. Rob is right: Romney never said "Who gives a **** about abortion and gay marriage if you don't have a job?" I think 49er Fan takes the inverse approach: Who gives a **** about a job if you can't kill your kids?
Recommended Posts