Keukasmallies Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Just reinforces my concept of almost all things catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Just because it has a heartbeat, that makes it human? The facts are that it's nothing more than a parasite at that point. It has no ability to live separated from it's mother, and stands a good chance of being DESTROYED by being rejected. The majority of fertilized eggs end up as nothing more than vaginal discharge. Your own god even places no value on those "lives". After all, why else would he kill half of them before their born? He's our God. Whether you like it or not. Just as the current IOTUS is both of our whether I voted for him r not. I don't have to like, or agree with him, but he's still large and in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Then why did you compare it to murder by using the "evil" god reference in your first post on this subject? Trying mothers for miscarriages is a ridiculous analogy. An abortion is a deliberate act, while a miscarriage is not. BTW, why do people who love to criticize Christianity always quote the Old Testament? I compared it to murder because most Christians say it is murder. I never said it is. I was merely pointing out that while "Christians" decry abortion, the holy book they claim to follow is rife with far worse examples of a "perfect" being doing unconscionable things. And the Old Testament is criticized because it's the basis of Christianity. It's in the Bible because Jesus and Old Testament god are considered to be one and the same. Did god somehow change from a murdering psychopath to a loving hippy? Do we give him a pass for sending bears to kill 40+ children because they mocked a man's bald head? Do we give him a pass for forcing the Egyptian Pharaoh to not free the Jews, and then killing thousands of innocent children? No one denies that their "loving" god did all these things. They are written plain as day in the scripture. Genocide and death are as much as part of Christianity as loving thy neighbor. He's our God. Whether you like it or not. Just as the current IOTUS is both of our whether I voted for him r not. I don't have to like, or agree with him, but he's still large and in charge. If you say so, but there is as much evidence for a christian god as there is for the flying spaghetti monster. At least the FSM doesn't have a crappy book that people gloss over. Nor does the FSM act like a narcissistic child and force people to worship him or be eternally damned. The best thing my parents ever did was send me to a Jesuit high school. Actually reading the bible gives you a much different impression than you would get from sitting through sunday school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/001488.htm Can't believe I'm responding, but idiocy needs to be taught... From your link.... It is estimated that up to half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, usually before the woman knows she is pregnant Not to mention the "estimated" part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Can't believe I'm responding, but idiocy needs to be taught... From your link.... Not to mention the "estimated" part... How about reading comprehension? Naturally aborting a fetus for $1000. What is a miscarriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 I compared it to murder because most Christians say it is murder. I never said it is. I was merely pointing out that while "Christians" decry abortion, the holy book they claim to follow is rife with far worse examples of a "perfect" being doing unconscionable things. And the Old Testament is criticized because it's the basis of Christianity. It's in the Bible because Jesus and Old Testament god are considered to be one and the same. Did god somehow change from a murdering psychopath to a loving hippy? Do we give him a pass for sending bears to kill 40+ children because they mocked a man's bald head? Do we give him a pass for forcing the Egyptian Pharaoh to not free the Jews, and then killing thousands of innocent children? No one denies that their "loving" god did all these things. They are written plain as day in the scripture. Genocide and death are as much as part of Christianity as loving thy neighbor. If you say so, but there is as much evidence for a christian god as there is for the flying spaghetti monster. At least the FSM doesn't have a crappy book that people gloss over. Nor does the FSM act like a narcissistic child and force people to worship him or be eternally damned. The best thing my parents ever did was send me to a Jesuit high school. Actually reading the bible gives you a much different impression than you would get from sitting through sunday school. And your comparing an act of survival by a small group of people, the ancient Hebrews, to the acts of a 1.5 billion strong religion??? Justifying genocide of ALL non Muslims, based of the survival in history of a small band is simply ridiculous... Let me try to make up a quote by you, and you can claim I'm wrong.... "Islam is a religion of peace, and even if they aren't, and want to kill or enslave 4.5 billion people, it's ok, because Jews killed Jericho and women naturally abort"... , Did I get that right??? A55holes do vex me... must be close to Holloween... How about reading comprehension? Naturally aborting a fetus for $1000. What is a miscarriage? wow... you ARE ignorant... nevermind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 How about reading comprehension? Naturally aborting a fetus for $1000. What is a miscarriage? I'm not remotely religious and I recognize that what you're saying is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Just because it has a heartbeat, that makes it human? The facts are that it's nothing more than a parasite at that point. It has no ability to live separated from it's mother, and stands a good chance of being DESTROYED by being rejected. The majority of fertilized eggs end up as nothing more than vaginal discharge. Your own god even places no value on those "lives". After all, why else would he kill half of them before their born? Again, I dont have a problem with you being pro-choice. But the way you go about it is !@#$ing vile. Edited October 29, 2012 by RkFast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) I'm not remotely religious and I recognize that what you're saying is ridiculous. And your comparing an act of survival by a small group of people, the ancient Hebrews, to the acts of a 1.5 billion strong religion??? Justifying genocide of ALL non Muslims, based of the survival in history of a small band is simply ridiculous... Let me try to make up a quote by you, and you can claim I'm wrong.... "Islam is a religion of peace, and even if they aren't, and want to kill or enslave 4.5 billion people, it's ok, because Jews killed Jericho and women naturally abort"... , Did I get that right??? A55holes do vex me... must be close to Holloween... wow... you ARE ignorant... nevermind... What are you even blabbering about? Your ad hominem are particularly puzzling. Since when is it an act of survival to slaughter every man, woman, and child in a city? It's nothing more than barbarism. I relate the story of Jericho to Christians because the orders to commit genocide were given by the same god that supposedly sent Jesus to die for everyone's sin. In relation to your personal attacks, your quote makes absolutely no sense.The Quran and Bible are actually very similar. In fact, Jesus is referenced, by name, 5 times more than Muhammad, there is even an open grave next to Muhammad remains for when Jesus returns. However, where they go wrong is that they more "religiously" adhere to their holy book. Modern Christians and Jews don't normally don't follow some of the more morally problematic passages in the Old Testament. This helps create a more stable society and avoid some of the senseless slaughter caused by fundamental adherence. Now, onto abortion being murder. If you agree that abortion is murder, then many miscarriages must be manslaughter. Smoke a cigarette (or have a drink) and your baby is aborted? Manslaughter. It would be no different than your negligence killing an adult. Fetuses are naturally aborted by their host's at a drop of a hat, and as such half of all fetuses are never even born. Yet abortion is murder? Probably during late term ones, but that's already illegal. Edited October 29, 2012 by Fingon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 What are you even blabbering about? Your ad hominem are particularly puzzling. Since when is it an act of survival to slaughter every man, woman, and child in a city? It's nothing more than barbarism. I relate the story of Jericho to Christians because the orders to commit genocide were given by the same god that supposedly sent Jesus to die for everyone's sin. In relation to your personal attacks, your quote makes absolutely no sense.The Quran and Bible are actually very similar. In fact, Jesus is referenced, by name, 5 times more than Muhammad, there is even an open grave next to Muhammad remains for when Jesus returns. However, where they go wrong is that they more "religiously" adhere to their holy book. Modern Christians and Jews don't normally don't follow some of the more morally problematic passages in the Old Testament. This helps create a more stable society and avoid some of the senseless slaughter caused by fundamental adherence. Now, onto abortion being murder. If you agree that abortion is murder, then many miscarriages must be manslaughter. Smoke a cigarette (or have a drink) and your baby is aborted? Manslaughter. It would be no different than your negligence killing an adult. Fetuses are naturally aborted by their host's at a drop of a hat, and as such half of all fetuses are never even born. Yet abortion is murder? Probably during late term ones, but that's already illegal. Actually yeah, if a mother knowingly does something to harm a baby she should be prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Again, I dont have a problem with you being pro-choice. But the way you go about it is !@#$ing vile. Thanks for actually backing up your opinions with evidence, and contributing to the discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Thanks for actually backing up your opinions with evidence, and contributing to the discourse. You do know the new Covenent lessened some of the Old Rigid Covenent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Getting this back on track after the little detour, the real question here is should a religious institution be forced to pay for procedures or birth control, when they go completely against their beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 You do know the new Covenent lessened some of the Old Rigid Covenent. It depends on which conflicting passages you believe. You can find ample scripture on both sides, for example: “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) or "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB) Getting this back on track after the little detour, the real question here is should a religious institution be forced to pay for procedures or birth control, when they go completely against their beliefs? It's Constitutional. see: the Lemon test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Thou shall not hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 It depends on which conflicting passages you believe. You can find ample scripture on both sides, for example: “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) or "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB) It's Constitutional. see: the Lemon test It's not. Only the tax since the SC said it's a tax. But as a religious orgnaization they are tax exept, hence they shouldn't have to based on. In addition, the government cannot force a religious organization into something just as an religion cannot be set by the government. You know that whole seperation thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Thanks for actually backing up your opinions with evidence, and contributing to the discourse. I dont need "evidence" because Im giving my OPINION, like you said. An opinion on the pathetic way in which you carry yourself and justify your beliefs. I find the manner in which youre dehumanizing what abortion is, with the language youre using, the chickenshit way out. Be a man, fignon. Ill say it for the third time. Its fine to be pro-choice. I have no quarrel with you there. But at least be honest with yourself about what it is. Edited October 29, 2012 by RkFast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 It depends on which conflicting passages you believe. You can find ample scripture on both sides, for example: “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) or "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB) It's Constitutional. see: the Lemon test You are confusing the issue. The Healthcare Act that was ruled on by SCOTUS does exempt Churches from certain provisions. Obama has once again tried to change the law by fiat by excluding extensions of the church, such as church run hospitals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 BTW, why do people who love to criticize Christianity always quote the Old Testament? They're too stupid, ignorant and closed-minded to know the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 They're too stupid, ignorant and closed-minded to know the difference? Why is it the atheists always criticize people of religion? I don't seem to notice religious people going out of their way to criticize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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