The Catholic Church Ad That Draws A Distinction

[dayman]

Religion! hehe

[Dante]

Just because it has a heartbeat, that makes it human? The facts are that it's nothing more than a parasite at that point. It has no ability to live separated from it's mother, and stands a good chance of being DESTROYED by being rejected. The majority of fertilized eggs end up as nothing more than vaginal discharge.

 

Your own god even places no value on those "lives". After all, why else would he kill half of them before their born?

omg. Where in the hell did society go so off kilter that someone could spew out something like that. You were such a parasite once.

[Duck_dodgers007]

My knocked up wife had her eight week sonogram recently.

 

Heartbeat

 

Look..if you want to be pro-choice thats your....er.....choice.

 

But DO !@#$ING NOT minimize what it is with some kind of weak bull **** thats bolded above. Be a man and accept what you stand for.

 

I just don't care, if someone can't afford the decades long responsibility of taking care of it, out it goes! Most anti choice people donate adopt unwanted children and oppose any assistance to poor children

[dayman]

I just don't care, if someone can't afford the decades long responsibility of taking care of it, out it goes! Most anti choice people donate adopt unwanted children and oppose any assistance to poor children

 

This is what it comes down to. Every stupid abortion debate getting into "what is a human, when is it a human" etc...always stupid. To me people who think that abortion should be safe and legal and hopefully rare should just say that when it comes to the government preventing it b/c it's a life...they just don't care. Not enough people say it b/c then someone else will bust out the "oh what a monster you are!" Well...not exactly saying I like it, or do it, or would do it in my personal life...but as to the issue of the law regarding how much control people should have over their own human reproduction (the most intimate and personal thing we do)...the argument that a group of cells has a heart beat doesn't do it for me. If you think it's wrong don't do it, and convince others in your personal life and through private efforts not to do it. Don't legislate on this issue b/c you are somehow more right than others on something most agree is a contentious and difficult issue to think about.

Edited October 29, 2012 by TheNewBills

[Rob's House]

 

 

This is what it comes down to. Every stupid abortion debate getting into "what is a human, when is it a human" etc...always stupid. To me people who think that abortion should be safe and legal and hopefully rare should just say that when it comes to the government preventing it b/c it's a life...they just don't care. Not enough people say it b/c then someone else will bust out the "oh what a monster you are!" Well...not exactly saying I like it, or do it, or would do it in my personal life...but as to the issue of the law regarding how much control people should have over their own human reproduction (the most intimate and personal thing we do)...the argument that a group of cells has a heart beat doesn't do it for me. If you think it's wrong don't do it, and convince others in your personal life and through private efforts not to do it. Don't legislate on this issue b/c you are somehow more right than others on something most agree is a contentious and difficult issue to think about.

Why do you hate babies?

[3rdnlng]

This is what it comes down to. Every stupid abortion debate getting into "what is a human, when is it a human" etc...always stupid. To me people who think that abortion should be safe and legal and hopefully rare should just say that when it comes to the government preventing it b/c it's a life...they just don't care. Not enough people say it b/c then someone else will bust out the "oh what a monster you are!" Well...not exactly saying I like it, or do it, or would do it in my personal life...but as to the issue of the law regarding how much control people should have over their own human reproduction (the most intimate and personal thing we do)...the argument that a group of cells has a heart beat doesn't do it for me. If you think it's wrong don't do it, and convince others in your personal life and through private efforts not to do it. Don't legislate on this issue b/c you are somehow more right than others on something most agree is a contentious and difficult issue to think about.

 

This thread started with an ad by the Catholic Church that was sending the message about not wanting the government to mandate them paying for things they did not believe in. As usual, it morphed into something related, but not on point. Being pro-life or being pro choice really has nothing to do with the problem of a government on steroids, abusing the basic rights of it's owners.

[RkFast]

I just don't care, if someone can't afford the decades long responsibility of taking care of it, out it goes! Most anti choice people donate adopt unwanted children and oppose any assistance to poor children

 

A) Thats bull ****

 

B) Ive said THREE SEPERATE TIMES I dont have an issue with one being pro-choice.

 

You !@#$ing mongrel.

 

This is what it comes down to. Every stupid abortion debate getting into "what is a human, when is it a human" etc...always stupid. To me people who think that abortion should be safe and legal and hopefully rare should just say that when it comes to the government preventing it b/c it's a life...they just don't care. Not enough people say it b/c then someone else will bust out the "oh what a monster you are!" Well...not exactly saying I like it, or do it, or would do it in my personal life...but as to the issue of the law regarding how much control people should have over their own human reproduction (the most intimate and personal thing we do)...the argument that a group of cells has a heart beat doesn't do it for me. If you think it's wrong don't do it, and convince others in your personal life and through private efforts not to do it. Don't legislate on this issue b/c you are somehow more right than others on something most agree is a contentious and difficult issue to think about.

 

 

Thats a fine and cogent argument. I dont have a problem with that. I do have a problem with factually inaccurate statements used to dehumanize what abortion really is in order to defend the practice being kept legal. Statements like "its just a clump of cells" or comparing an abortion to "vaginal discharge" or comparing a fetus to a "parasite" is WAY over the top in terms of redefining the practice.

 

If you want to be for or against something, thats your right. But !@#$ing man up and own up and accept what it is that your fighting for. Dont change the definition of what it is like a weasel.

Edited October 29, 2012 by RkFast

[dayman]

This thread started with an ad by the Catholic Church that was sending the message about not wanting the government to mandate them paying for things they did not believe in. As usual, it morphed into something related, but not on point. Being pro-life or being pro choice really has nothing to do with the problem of a government on steroids, abusing the basic rights of it's owners.

 

Oh c'mon they don't have to do it. And when they have larger programs they affiliate with or run that go outside the scope of just a church (often employing lots of people .... not all Catholic) then they have to do what everybody else has to do under the law. This is not some assault on the Church. As someone else said it is well within the Lemon test. Lots of other beliefs are subject to societies laws...can't take illegal drugs to be closer to God can't sacrifice people can't do a number of things...can't deny women working for a catholic hospital access to birth control through her insurer is now on the list...that's really no big deal NOR is it (and this is really the point I would like to stress) some new form of government expansion on steroids...as much as the narrative against Obama would have everything turned into some big dramatic take-over it just isn't.

 

This is the America you already lived in, like it or not. It's a nice little political narrative to pitch and can get some people riled up and invoke passion but don't go around buying some nonsense story about religious oppression. It's just stupid. Preach against it, make your case, encourage followers it is immoral or whatever you would like...open a food bank or whatever and employ a bunch of people then you have opened a business in society and that's that. There's nobody in this country that can't take issue with something they don't like about gov't or society in this country...but that's life. And that's what you we tell kids they will learn as they get older. And it's true. Yes there is a process where we have a gov't and pass laws. Health insurance reform happened and birth control is in. Fracking fluid may need to be monitored. We may go to war again over something not everybody likes. Top tax rate may go up or down. Etc....get over it.

Edited October 29, 2012 by TheNewBills

[....lybob]

New Study Confirms Overwhelming Death Rate of IVF Human Embryos

• 
   
  

By Thaddeus M. Baklinski

DENVER, Colorado, October 26, 2010 - A report by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine (ASRM) on a study of IVF "efficiency" states that just 7.5 percent of all artificially fertilized embryos will go on to become live-born children.

“It should surprise no one that the vast majority of sperm and eggs never get together to even begin the fertilization process,” said Dr. Robert W. Rebar, Executive Director of the ASRM, in a press release. “But, it is very important to understand that even once joined together for fertilization, an overwhelming majority of fertilized eggs do not become viable embryos, and only a small percentage of embryos thought to be viable produce a child. While this data come the IVF lab, natural conception is also very inefficient.”

The study was conducted at the Shady Grove Fertility Center in Maryland in order to "quantify the fate of the eggs retrieved in the IVF process," and will be presented at the annual ASRM conference in Denver this week.

Researchers reviewed all the in vitro fertilization cycles conducted at Shady Grove between 2004 and 2008. In 14,324 IVF cycles, clinicians retrieved 192,991 eggs. Initially, 110,939 of the eggs were successfully fertilized. However, only 44,282 continued to develop into "viable embryos."

Usual IVF practice is to implant just one or two living embryos into the womb per IVF cycle, with the others being frozen.

"Using the most optimistic set of assumptions that all the frozen embryos will eventually be used," the ASRM report says, "this will result in 8,366 babies. Thus, only 7.5% of all the fertilized eggs will go on to become live-born children."

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.

 

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey

 

Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. ¹⁶ “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. ¹⁷ Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, ¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Edited October 29, 2012 by ....lybob

[Nanker]

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.

 

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey

 

Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. ¹⁶ “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. ¹⁷ Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, ¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

Such a poignant story BillyBob. But there wasn't a Christian amongst them, yet alone a single Catholic.

[3rdnlng]

Oh c'mon they don't have to do it. And when they have larger programs they affiliate with or run that go outside the scope of just a church (often employing lots of people .... not all Catholic) then they have to do what everybody else has to do under the law. This is not some assault on the Church. As someone else said it is well within the Lemon test. Lots of other beliefs are subject to societies laws...can't take illegal drugs to be closer to God can't sacrifice people can't do a number of things...can't deny women working for a catholic hospital access to birth control through her insurer is now on the list...that's really no big deal NOR is it (and this is really the point I would like to stress) some new form of government expansion on steroids...as much as the narrative against Obama would have everything turned into some big dramatic take-over it just isn't.

 

This is the America you already lived in, like it or not. It's a nice little political narrative to pitch and can get some people riled up and invoke passion but don't go around buying some nonsense story about religious oppression. It's just stupid. Preach against it, make your case, encourage followers it is immoral or whatever you would like...open a food bank or whatever and employ a bunch of people then you have opened a business in society and that's that. There's nobody in this country that can't take issue with something they don't like about gov't or society in this country...but that's life. And that's what you we tell kids they will learn as they get older. And it's true. Yes there is a process where we have a gov't and pass laws. Health insurance reform happened and birth control is in. Fracking fluid may need to be monitored. We may go to war again over something not everybody likes. Top tax rate may go up or down. Etc....get over it.

 

I'm responding for the whole purpose of saving this response before you sober up and delete it, JW.

[Gary M]

Psalm 137:9

 

Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

 

Oh stop it.

 

Didn't we have this discussion once before?

 

Then why did you compare it to murder by using the "evil" god reference in your first post on this subject? Trying mothers for miscarriages is a ridiculous analogy. An abortion is a deliberate act, while a miscarriage is not.

 

BTW, why do people who love to criticize Christianity always quote the Old Testament?

 

Mostly because they are ignorant.

 

I dont need "evidence" because Im giving my OPINION, like you said.

 

An opinion on the pathetic way in which you carry yourself and justify your beliefs.

 

I find the manner in which youre dehumanizing what abortion is, with the language youre using, the chickenshit way out.

 

Be a man, fignon. Ill say it for the third time. Its fine to be pro-choice. I have no quarrel with you there. But at least be honest with yourself about what it is.

 

They can't, because it would destroy their argument.

 

Much like when Obama said if you banned late term abortions you would have to ban them all.

 

This is what it comes down to. Every stupid abortion debate getting into "what is a human, when is it a human" etc...always stupid. To me people who think that abortion should be safe and legal and hopefully rare should just say that when it comes to the government preventing it b/c it's a life...they just don't care. Not enough people say it b/c then someone else will bust out the "oh what a monster you are!" Well...not exactly saying I like it, or do it, or would do it in my personal life...but as to the issue of the law regarding how much control people should have over their own human reproduction (the most intimate and personal thing we do)...the argument that a group of cells has a heart beat doesn't do it for me. If you think it's wrong don't do it, and convince others in your personal life and through private efforts not to do it. Don't legislate on this issue b/c you are somehow more right than others on something most agree is a contentious and difficult issue to think about.

 

That is all well and good, but don't use federal funds for it.

 

They all want freedom and choice, as long as someone else pays for it.

 

Such a poignant story BillyBob. But there wasn't a Christian amongst them, yet alone a single Catholic.

 

+1

[IDBillzFan]

I would like to see a link to back up that claim....

 

Not to mention that the analogy is kind of stupid. People die from "natural causes" quite often, so by his logic, killing people intentionally shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

I should note, I don't have strong feelings one way or another regarding abortion, but anyone who suggests an early-term fetus is only a clump of cells needs to be kept from reproducing.

Edited October 29, 2012 by LABillzFan

[Gary M]

Not to mention that the analogy is kind of stupid. People die from "natural causes" quite often, so by his logic, killing people intentionally shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

I should note, I don't have strong feelings one way or another regarding abortion, but anyone who suggests an early-term fetus is only a clump of cells needs to be kept from reproducing.

 

I hit him in the head with a hammer to keep him from having a heart attack next week.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Gary M

[Bigfatbillsfan]

You do know the new Covenent lessened some of the Old Rigid Covenent.

 

Yes for instance Jesus tells us that it's still an abomination to be a homosexual but says that it's OK to eat shellfish now. Right? He must have said that somewhere. Otherwise there would be people picketing in front of Red Lobster.

[Koko78]

Why is it the atheists always criticize people of religion? I don't seem to notice religious people going out of their way to criticize them.

 

The funny thing, to me at least, is that it seems atheists spend more time reading the Bible in order to criticize religion than the religious people do for guidance.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

The funny thing, to me at least, is that it seems atheists spend more time reading the Bible in order to criticize religion than the religious people do for guidance.

 

I know. The only thing I find more annoying than a militant Christian is a militant atheist.

[....lybob]

The funny thing, to me at least, is that it seems atheists spend more time reading the Bible in order to criticize religion than the religious people do for guidance.

My guess is many atheist/agnostic are like me, nominal Christian then got deeply involved and actually read the Bible cover to cover and rejected what they found there.

[Cinga]

Yes for instance Jesus tells us that it's still an abomination to be a homosexual but says that it's OK to eat shellfish now. Right? He must have said that somewhere. Otherwise there would be people picketing in front of Red Lobster.

 

Where does it say that?

[BillsFanM.D.]

Just because it has a heartbeat, that makes it human? The facts are that it's nothing more than a parasite at that point. It has no ability to live separated from it's mother, and stands a good chance of being DESTROYED by being rejected. The majority of fertilized eggs end up as nothing more than vaginal discharge.

 

So....a four month old child thrown in the back yard....separated from it's mother and with no chance of surviving based on its mother's rejection ......is a parasite?