Jim in Anchorage Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 Someone explain to me how streaming it now, watching it on demand, or waiting for the re-run tomorrow night makes any difference or costs the cable companies any money... I watch all my shows free [stealing just like a car!] on "pirate" internet sites. Paying big $ for cable AND being forced to watch commercials is a double dip and I won't pay for it.
CosmicBills Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Someone explain to me how streaming it now, watching it on demand, or waiting for the re-run tomorrow night makes any difference or costs the cable companies any money... If you illegally stream it, you're taking eyes away from the provider, which in turn lowers their numbers, lowers their ad revenue (or subscription) and causes them to supplement it by taking it from their customer's pockets. Did you sleep through the FX and Viacom dispute with DTV? I watch all my shows free [stealing just like a car!] on "pirate" internet sites. Paying big $ for cable AND being forced to watch commercials is a double dip and I won't pay for it. So, theft is fine so long as you can justify it. Got it. Because everyone has to keep growing the business to keep the shareholders happy? This plays a part, without question. The network TV business model is broken, no one knows how to fix it. Piracy has played a major role, as well as the networks own inability to monetize their product on the interwebs. But stealing is stealing. There's absolutely no difference between illegally streaming a movie/show/series and stealing a DVD from BestBuy. You wouldn't walk into BestBuy and put a DVD in your pocket, would you?
DrDawkinstein Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Tgreg, we get it. And I hope your employer is reading your posts to know what a good corporate soldier you are. But not everything the MPAA or RIAA says is true or gospel. Blaming piracy for their problems instead of looking at themselves and blaming their problems for piracy is just ridiculous and consumers have spoken. Not every situation is as black and white as they/you would like to make it. This TV one being a prime example. I pay for cable, I pay for Netflix, I pay for Hulu+. They re-run the show. How many times do they expect me to pay for something which they've already been paid for? If I want to stream it to watch it, I'm going to do it, and nothing you or their lawyers say will make me feel bad about it. Still love ya though
CosmicBills Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Tgreg, we get it. And I hope your employer is reading your posts to know what a good corporate soldier you are. But not everything the MPAA or RIAA says is true or gospel. Blaming piracy for their problems instead of looking at themselves and blaming their problems for piracy is just ridiculous and consumers have spoken. Not every situation is as black and white as they/you would like to make it. This TV one being a prime example. I pay for cable, I pay for Netflix, I pay for Hulu+. They re-run the show. How many times do they expect me to pay for something which they've already been paid for? If I want to stream it to watch it, I'm going to do it, and nothing you or their lawyers say will make me feel bad about it. Still love ya though The question is, if you pay for all those services, why do you need to pirate it? I'm not arguing the network model is working, it's not. I fight that battle every single day. But that's not an excuse to steal, no matter how you want to justify it. It's a mentality that is quite frightening to me on a bigger level than just my personal employment. I don't work for the MPAA. I'm a writer -- I make my living from residuals. My health insurance and dental are paid for by those residuals. I'm a peon, I'm not a Sorkin or a Daniels. I don't get 1 mill per script, I'm lucky if I get 5k. The people being squeezed by piracy aren't the big money makers or even the corporate bosses -- it's the grunts working in the trenches and the consumer. People here complain about there not being any good movies these days. You know why that is? There are less features being made. Studios won't risk 50 million to make a movie and see it get destroyed by piracy. What's happened is there are only 2 kinds of movies made now: those over 100 million and those under 20. That's it. Try finding funding for a 40 million movie and you won't find it. Distribution? Forget about it. TV is in a golden age right now. Some of the best writers in the business are working in TV because there's more freedom and more creative control. But if piracy goes unchecked because people feel entitled to stealing product -- you're going to get less TV shows, and a worse product. I love you too -- I'm not trying to bury you, but just open your eyes a bit. The ONLY reason you feel it's okay to stream pirated shows is because the internet has made it easy to commit a crime without having to go through the trouble of leaving your bedroom/office/living room. Again, I ask you, you're standing in BestBuy and you see an Always Sunny dvd set on the shelf. Now, you pay for cable, you pay for netflix -- are you entitled to just take that DVD off the shelf and walk out? If not, why not? It's the same logic you're using now.
HopsGuy Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 It would be nice if Fox (FX et al) had an app or a website for folks to watch episodes like HBO GO. You log in with your provider ID and bam - you're watching your show. The basic cable providers would have to insert ads like "The Daily Show" does but at least they're still delivering content to their customers. Appointment viewing is over and folks shouldn't need a Netflix subscription to catch a recent show they missed.
CosmicBills Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 It would be nice if Fox (FX et al) had an app or a website for folks to watch episodes like HBO GO. You log in with your provider ID and bam - you're watching your show. The basic cable providers would have to insert ads like "The Daily Show" does but at least they're still delivering content to their customers. Appointment viewing is over and folks shouldn't need a Netflix subscription to catch a recent show they missed. No disagreement here. The model has changed and you're going to see more of this in the future. Most networks and cable providers do offer free-on-demand viewing of most networks. That will continue to increase.
boyst Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 A lot of sillyness in this thread and I am finally going to weigh in... To watch reruns of shows is silly. To watch most anything on TV is silly. I have too many channels to count and I hardly watch a damn one because I do not care what any housewives are doing, Honey Fatkid, or Snooki, etc. However, many do. It is up to the networks to air the programming the consumer wants to see. It is up to the cable companies to provide us the content we want. If neither one is meeting my needs, aren't I the only one to blame? I am not anti-piracy, at all. I am not pro-RIAA, MPAA, anything.
CosmicBills Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 A lot of sillyness in this thread and I am finally going to weigh in... To watch reruns of shows is silly. To watch most anything on TV is silly. I have too many channels to count and I hardly watch a damn one because I do not care what any housewives are doing, Honey Fatkid, or Snooki, etc. However, many do. It is up to the networks to air the programming the consumer wants to see. It is up to the cable companies to provide us the content we want. If neither one is meeting my needs, aren't I the only one to blame? I am not anti-piracy, at all. I am not pro-RIAA, MPAA, anything. You're not anti-stealing at all? That's surprising based on your posting history.
Chef Jim Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 your an interesting dude So you piss in public and steal television shows. You're a real piece of work buddy.
HopsGuy Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 No disagreement here. The model has changed and you're going to see more of this in the future. Most networks and cable providers do offer free-on-demand viewing of most networks. That will continue to increase. If there were a way to ensure that views were monetized so that TV/films were a complete meritocracy (most views, most pay), I'd be in favor of that. I'm more than happy to watch ads to watch when I want to watch - thought I do tend to FF through ads on Tivo. Unfortunately, this sort of "breakage" will continue. You would need a central clearinghouse for everything and when that happens (RIAA, USSR, etc) it gets poorly managed.
Chilly Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 This plays a part, without question. The network TV business model is broken, no one knows how to fix it. Piracy has played a major role, as well as the networks own inability to monetize their product on the interwebs. But stealing is stealing. There's absolutely no difference between illegally streaming a movie/show/series and stealing a DVD from BestBuy. You wouldn't walk into BestBuy and put a DVD in your pocket, would you? Wasn't saying I was for it.
boyst Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 You're not anti-stealing at all? That's surprising based on your posting history. Hmm. I am not not anti-stealing, I am just just not pro-stealing. I realize that intellectual property is a grey area. My posting history has been pro-wiki leaks and truth. Open and honest information to reform all the **** that is wrong with this world. I support some of Anonymous' actions and some of the church's actions. There is no clear cut answer to right and wrong.
plenzmd1 Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 So you piss in public and steal television shows. You're a real piece of work buddy. Ha!!
Metal Man Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 It isn't stealing, it is lending/borrowing. No different than if I loan my copy of a DVD to a buddy who may then loan it to his cousin.... Only difference is you are borrowing from strangers and it is a lot easier to exchange stuff without having to be physically present.
PaattMaann Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) So you piss in public and steal television shows. You're a real piece of work buddy. hey when you gotta go, ya gotta go...until you pee in public, you've never really done anything with you life : ) (and just to clarify, its not like I wake up in the morning ,walk outside and piss in the street....ive peed in public in parking lots while tailgating mostly - and once on a street corner in buffalo - not particularly proud of that, but I guess proud enough to share with all of you strangers) yes, I steal all types of files from the internet...tv shows/music(especially)/movies, you name it...im all about it, sorry to the tgregs of the world that im hurting who depend on that for their piddly earnings...at least your doing what ya love though, ya know? FX did not offer the past episode on demand for some reason, and their website does not offer episodes as HBO and AMC and others do... I do appreciate all the negative nancy's who came in to scold me for trying to catch up on my TV show episode that I missed....for an update: I was not able to find it online (score one for tgreg!!!) so I recorded the episode as it was on after last nights episode, so now ill get to watch both back to back, thank god! am I right? Edited October 24, 2012 by PaattMaann
DrDawkinstein Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 The question is, if you pay for all those services, why do you need to pirate it? I'm not arguing the network model is working, it's not. I fight that battle every single day. But that's not an excuse to steal, no matter how you want to justify it. It's a mentality that is quite frightening to me on a bigger level than just my personal employment. Good question. I'd like to ask the network the same thing. If Im paying for something multiple times over, why do they try so hard to convince people that watching it at my convenience is some sort of crime, and somehow taking money out of their/your pocket? The problem in this case is that particular episode isnt yet available on the paid streaming services, and I'd like to catch it BEFORE the next episode, so what am I supposed to do? Unless they just want their viewers to lose interest in the show... I don't work for the MPAA. I'm a writer -- I make my living from residuals. My health insurance and dental are paid for by those residuals. I'm a peon, I'm not a Sorkin or a Daniels. I don't get 1 mill per script, I'm lucky if I get 5k. The people being squeezed by piracy aren't the big money makers or even the corporate bosses -- it's the grunts working in the trenches and the consumer. Exactly why YOU should be someone that is embracing the "New Way". There are plenty of people like you that have gone independent and are utilizing the Internet to make more money, and leave the studios and big wigs behind. Just because you are currently stuck in the old machine, doesnt mean it's the only way. People here complain about there not being any good movies these days. You know why that is? There are less features being made. Studios won't risk 50 million to make a movie and see it get destroyed by piracy. What's happened is there are only 2 kinds of movies made now: those over 100 million and those under 20. That's it. Try finding funding for a 40 million movie and you won't find it. Distribution? Forget about it. Movies, TV Shows, and Music are all separate categories with completely different business models. On top of that, there are multiple things that fall under your blanket term "piracy". You have bootlegging, file sharing, streaming, etc. Each type affects each industry differently. I'm not going to get caught up chasing the differences in this argument as we would be here all week, and still not get anywhere. Jumping around to the movie industry is irrelevant to this particular discussion. TV is in a golden age right now. Some of the best writers in the business are working in TV because there's more freedom and more creative control. But if piracy goes unchecked because people feel entitled to stealing product -- you're going to get less TV shows, and a worse product. Maybe, maybe not. Again, the way TV is setup, the networks and producers are getting paid plenty of times over. Not only by us consumers paying for the service, but also by sponsors that pay for commercial time. I love you too -- I'm not trying to bury you, but just open your eyes a bit. The ONLY reason you feel it's okay to stream pirated shows is because the internet has made it easy to commit a crime without having to go through the trouble of leaving your bedroom/office/living room. Incorrect. The reason I know it's not a crime is because I grew up in the age of cassette tapes and VHS. In this thread, on this topic, we are not talking about downloading the entire series or even a single episode to keep for myself. We're talking about simply streaming it once in order to catch up with a series that someone watches consistently. Again, I ask you, you're standing in BestBuy and you see an Always Sunny dvd set on the shelf. Now, you pay for cable, you pay for netflix -- are you entitled to just take that DVD off the shelf and walk out? If not, why not? It's the same logic you're using now. Your single analogy that you keep trying to apply to all sorts of different things is not valid. This isnt like "stealing a DVD from Best Buy". This is actually like borrowing a DVD from your friend so you can catch up on a show that has already aired. We're not talking about the illegal recording of movies in the theater so I can go home and mass produce it. Or even downloading a movie so I dont have to pay to see it. I'm not arguing that those methods are ok, so my eyes are already open. Im not the one arguing that everything is so black and white. I need you to step back from your daily grind and life in the industry and realize that there are plenty of different situations and practices that arent so "criminal". And actually, in certain cases, the "criminals" are the studios/networks/etc that are demanding the consumer pay them multiple times for something they can not even enjoy at their leisure. Im all for everyone making money, but it's a two-way street. Consumer and supplier. And if the supplier can not keep their business model on track with what the consumers want, then that is on the supplier. Youve already admitted as much, so meet me in the grey area, and lets get a beer!
Chef Jim Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Good question. I'd like to ask the network the same thing. If Im paying for something multiple times over, why do they try so hard to convince people that watching it at my convenience is some sort of crime, and somehow taking money out of their/your pocket? The problem in this case is that particular episode isnt yet available on the paid streaming services, and I'd like to catch it BEFORE the next episode, so what am I supposed to do? Unless they just want their viewers to lose interest in the show... You are 100% able to watch shows at your convience, it's called a DVR and is 100% legal. Try it sometime. Exactly why YOU should be someone that is embracing the "New Way". There are plenty of people like you that have gone independent and are utilizing the Internet to make more money, and leave the studios and big wigs behind. Just because you are currently stuck in the old machine, doesnt mean it's the only way. You are absolutely right there are sites on the internet that are allowing people to watch TV. And these people are making money because they've chosen not to give it away for free. Try it sometime. Movies, TV Shows, and Music are all separate categories with completely different business models. On top of that, there are multiple things that fall under your blanket term "piracy". You have bootlegging, file sharing, streaming, etc. Each type affects each industry differently. I'm not going to get caught up chasing the differences in this argument as we would be here all week, and still not get anywhere. Jumping around to the movie industry is irrelevant to this particular discussion. So let's call it piracy. You're ok with that I assume? Anything else in your life you'd like to admit to stealing and justifying it with "well I think it should be legal so I'll do it anyway"? Maybe, maybe not. Again, the way TV is setup, the networks and producers are getting paid plenty of times over. Not only by us consumers paying for the service, but also by sponsors that pay for commercial time. So because you don't like their business model and you feel they're making too much money justifies breaking the law? Just checking/ Incorrect. The reason I know it's not a crime is because I grew up in the age of cassette tapes and VHS. In this thread, on this topic, we are not talking about downloading the entire series or even a single episode to keep for myself. We're talking about simply streaming it once in order to catch up with a series that someone watches consistently. Which is still illegal and just because you think otherwise doesn not change the fact that doing so is breaking the law. Once again what other laws to you break the you disagree with? I bet the list is interesting and long. Your single analogy that you keep trying to apply to all sorts of different things is not valid. This isnt like "stealing a DVD from Best Buy". This is actually like borrowing a DVD from your friend so you can catch up on a show that has already aired. It's not like borrowing a DVD from a friend at all. See that would require you go to a friends house or he brings the DVD to work and says "here, check this out". So that's a very dumb argument. We're not talking about the illegal recording of movies in the theater so I can go home and mass produce it. Or even downloading a movie so I dont have to pay to see it. But it's still illegal right? Just checking. I'm not arguing that those methods are ok, so my eyes are already open. Im not the one arguing that everything is so black and white. I need you to step back from your daily grind and life in the industry and realize that there are plenty of different situations and practices that arent so "criminal". And actually, in certain cases, the "criminals" are the studios/networks/etc that are demanding the consumer pay them multiple times for something they can not even enjoy at their leisure. I'm not blinded by the industry seeing I don't work in it and watch very little network TV. Interesting how you put criminal and criminals in quotes. Why is that? Im all for everyone making money, but it's a two-way street. Consumer and supplier. And if the supplier can not keep their business model on track with what the consumers want, then that is on the supplier. Youve already admitted as much, so meet me in the grey area, and lets get a beer! If you disagree with the process/law change it, don't break it. Oh, don't drink and drive.
PaattMaann Posted October 24, 2012 Author Posted October 24, 2012 this is just like the "pocket sized" rule at stores...if it fits in your pocket its not illegal to steal it, duh...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Jim, leave this modern discussion to the youngin's that are still relevant in society, thanks. You didnt make one point worth the time it would take to address it.
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