QB Bills Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 That is crazy, I didn't know he acknowledged it, that is great for him. I hope he turns it around. i was happy when we took him. He is a playmaker but he is just green. He needs time, we threw both him and Gilmore to the wolves Ya, who can forget the time he And the time he And what about the time he
KOKBILLS Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Because AJ Green makes Dalton a much better QB. I don't think that Dalton, if he were on the Bills, would turn out to be any better than Fitz. Could not disagree more...Sure Green makes Dalton better, but Stevie Johnson is pretty good...He gets open a lot...And Fitz misses him a lot...I'm 100% certain that if given the opportunity Dalton would hit more big plays in this Bills Offense...He would hit more WR's in stride...He would scramble better than Fitz...You name it...He's a 2nd year QB with a career Passer Rating of 83.7 (91.7 so far this Season) and he's still just learning...Fitz had 4 years in the NFL by the time he got his 20th Start, and he still could not get his Passer Rating over 70...Fitz has 1196 more career passing attempts than Dalton...Dalton has 10 more TD's than INT's in 21 Starts...Fitz has 7 more TD's than INT's in 58 Starts...So...
CFLstyle Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Dalton and Fitz, not even close haha one's a potential top-10 QB with all the intangibles and the other's a career journeyman.
Hsp08 Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Because AJ Green makes Dalton a much better QB. I don't think that Dalton, if he were on the Bills, would turn out to be any better than Fitz. This is because of bad coaching. Good coaching can take a team to the playoffs with even Tebow at QB. Bottomline, Dalton is more talented than Fitz. But is he a better pick than Aaron Williams? I got fried by no-it-all's here for asking this last season.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Because AJ Green makes Dalton a much better QB. I don't think that Dalton, if he were on the Bills, would turn out to be any better than Fitz. It's symbiotic. Dalton may not be as big as his hype, but he seems pretty accurate and a decent game manager. Aspects that are seriously lacking from Fitzpicks game.
stony Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 This is exactly the right point... At the time a Dareus/Williams 1/2 seemed pretty decent...they certainly carried worthy grades based on where they were Drafted...But this is The Buffalo Bills we're talking about...And you have to figure these Kids will underachieve... Dareus has certainly had his moments...BUT... AJ Green, Julio Jones, Patrick Peterson, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith anyone? Good grief those are 5 REALLY good young players...I mean...Those 5 guys figure to be perennial Pro-Bowlers...That hurts... I thought Aaron Williams had turned the corner (no pun intended) late last season when, at times at least, he was The Bills best player on Defense (ok...I admit that is NOT saying much)...But this year it seems he's reverted back to that CB we saw get toasted early on in his Rookie year...If anyone remembers, Williams had one of the worst pre-seasons I've seen in a long time for a CB...He got beat bad early on...Then before he got hurt last year, and a little after, he did not look much better...The thing is, Williams does not appear to have the quick's to keep up with NFL WR's...I think straight line he's OK...But he's not fluid enough...And his critics who said he was better suited at Safety in the NFL are looking pretty smart right now...Now combine that with the obvious fact that The Bills Drafted Williams ahead of Andy Dalton...Dalton may not be perfect...But he's young, big enough, he's a competitor, and he was a HUGE winner in College...The Bills also could have had LB Bruce Carter...I have one friend who is a die-hard Cowboys Fan...He tells me Carter is a future star in the NFL at LB...He's currently 2nd on the Team in Tackles and may be one of the fastest LB's in the NFL (and yes I know about his injury as a Sr...That's why he lasted into the 2nd Round)...Anyway...The big miss was still Dalton... So...once again it looks like The Bills took the wrong guy...When you are looking at Premium Picks only (1st-3rd Rounds), Nix has simply not done good enough...Spiller is definitely a home-run threat...But The Bills still could have Lynch and Jackson at RB, and JPP at DE instead...Troup...Well...You know...Carrington? Umm...Hindsight may very well be 20/20, but sometimes it stings a little more...Like knowing that NaVorro Bowman went 18 Picks after Carrington...Ouch, ouch, ouch...Kelvin Sheppard has certainly not looked like anything spectacular...This years pack (Gilmore, Glenn, and TJ Graham) looks decent now...But how much would any Bills fan gamble that it will look as good next year, and the year after that? It just has not gone that way enough for this Scouting Department for whatever reason... Nix said The Bills would build through the Draft...And he has done well to stick by that claim...The problem is if you are going to do that you have to hit a few home runs in the 1st-3rd Rounds...If you go three years and hit on 6 of those 9 players...now you're REALLY getting somewhere...Right now, of Buddy's nine, only Spiller and Glenn could be called potential home runs...Dareus is a decent Starter, but considering many felt he was the best prospect in the entire 2011 Draft, to this point the argument can be made that he has seriously underachieved...Gilmore looks like he could be a solid Starter at CB, but he's also struggled a bit as a Rookie and looked REAL bad on some plays...He's also looked good on others...You have Williams and Shep who are below average Starters...TJ Graham who looks like he may become a decent 2nd or 3rd WR...Carrington is a back-up DT and FG blocker...Troup is all but done...Not exactly what Buddy planned on with this Scouting Department...Not at all... I couldn't disagree more, and as you mention, your whole premise is based on "would have, should have." Thats a covienent way to make the case stand that of all people, Marcell Dareus is a bad pick. By all accounts he's had two bad games is year that propelled him to the bottom of a system of rankings. The same rankings that don't take into account a person tragedy that has obviously affected his play. I am the furthest thing from a Buddy apologist and have said on numerous threads he's got a below average resume thus far on early picks. But I won't try to qualify his shortcomings by saying he should have taken the other guy who has performed well thus far. It's too easy and lazy way IMO to go about complaining about a talent on our roster that but 5 weeks ago nearly everyone on this board would agree they'd rather have MD over Von Miller, the reigning DROY.
starrymessenger Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Perfect scenario would be if Brooks can get some snaps at CB this year and show he can play the position. Brooks becomes the #2 CB next year. Wilson to me this year has been so/so. Might be a product of trying to help young guys, mybe he has lost a step? Williams could take over for Wilson? like the backfield at that point. And yes i get there are some 'ifs' in there. What you guys think? Coming out of Tex everybody projected AW at FS or SS. He started at corner in Buff last year because we thought we were set at safety but needed help at corner. Maybe things are different now with Wilson struggling and Byrd maybe moving on (heaven forbid). The Bills need to develop Williams. He is extremely talented and young. For those who think he is slow remember that his pro day 40 time was 4.36. He needs to be coached up and put in a position to succeed. He is not a bust.
KOKBILLS Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) I couldn't disagree more, and as you mention, your whole premise is based on "would have, should have." Thats a covienent way to make the case stand that of all people, Marcell Dareus is a bad pick. By all accounts he's had two bad games is year that propelled him to the bottom of a system of rankings. The same rankings that don't take into account a person tragedy that has obviously affected his play. I am the furthest thing from a Buddy apologist and have said on numerous threads he's got a below average resume thus far on early picks. But I won't try to qualify his shortcomings by saying he should have taken the other guy who has performed well thus far. It's too easy and lazy way IMO to go about complaining about a talent on our roster that but 5 weeks ago nearly everyone on this board would agree they'd rather have MD over Von Miller, the reigning DROY. Well...I understand why Bills Fans would back Dareus over Miller...He's our guy...But if nearly everyone on this board made that decision purely based on play, and impact, then they would simply be idiots... NFL GM's get fired everyday for would-have's and should have's...The record speaks for itself...Go ahead and make excuses...Call it lazy evaluation, though I really don't know how else a GM can be evaluated other than how his Picks pan out, and who he could have Drafted instead...But anyway...It's their job to pick the right guy...If they don't, they don't last...You can call it whatever you want...It is what it is...And 95% of NFL Teams would take Green, Jones, Peterson, Watt, or Smith ahead of Dareus today...Now...Maybe in a couple years that will change...But if not, Nix blew the Pick...Period...And look, Dareus did not lose his Brother last year while he was anchoring a D-Line that was one of the worst in the NFL vs the Run...So please...Nobody wants Marcell Dareus to excel and be a Pro-Bowler more than I do...Nobody...But some of y'all act like the Kids mommy...You don't hold him accountable for his actual play...He's a Professional...He was the #3 overall player in the entire 2011 Draft...He needs to be better...Every game he needs to get better... If you think Dareus has lived up to the #3 overall pick I don't know what to tell you because you're not processing the information available via his actual play on the field ...So it's useless to argue the point... Edited October 20, 2012 by KOKBILLS
bigc14120 Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Brooks will get a shot, but I am thinking that McKelvin ought to be back there. He can't be worse!!!! I think Williams ends up at safety, George Wilson's contract is up, and I am not sure the Bills will resign him. If it comes to resigning McKelvin or Wilson, I favor keeping McKelvin.
DanInUticaTampa Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 It's interesting that the only player in the secondary playing well also happens to be the only holdover from the Jauron era. Buddy and Chan have worked their magic at the other positions. Well, some of them. They gave us a great oline, a decent tight end, some ok receivers, a good rb, and a 100 mill dollar prize free agent. Other than that, their other choices have something still to prove
stony Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Well...I understand why Bills Fans would back Dareus over Miller...He's our guy...But if nearly everyone on this board made that decision purely based on play, and impact, then they would simply be idiots... NFL GM's get fired everyday for would-have's and should have's...The record speaks for itself...Go ahead and make excuses...Call it lazy evaluation, though I really don't know how else a GM can be evaluated other than how his Picks pan out, and who he could have Drafted instead...But anyway...It's their job to pick the right guy...If they don't, they don't last...You can call it whatever you want...It is what it is...And 95% of NFL Teams would take Green, Jones, Peterson, Watt, or Smith ahead of Dareus today...Now...Maybe in a couple years that will change...But if not, Nix blew the Pick...Period...And look, Dareus did not lose his Brother last year while he was anchoring a D-Line that was one of the worst in the NFL vs the Run...So please...Nobody wants Marcell Dareus to excel and be a Pro-Bowler more than I do...Nobody...But some of y'all act like the Kids mommy...You don't hold him accountable for his actual play...He's a Professional...He was the #3 overall player in the entire 2011 Draft...He needs to be better...Every game he needs to get better... If you think Dareus has lived up to the #3 overall pick I don't know what to tell you because you're not processing the information available via his actual play on the field ...So it's useless to argue the point... Fair enough as far as accountability is concerned. It's a performance based, results oriented league. As for Dareus, I don't think I'm off base. Kid was on the All-Rookie team, led his team in sacks, and played with some questionable talent along that front. But, please don't tell me you're going to blame last season's D on Dareus. As for some of the other players, performance is so often based on circumstance. Julio Jones went to a playoff team w/ a Pro-Bowler opposite of him. No one could predict Watt being Reggies White, and we were changing schemes. Peterson has built his reputation as a punt returner thus far. And unless my eyes deceived me, our 7th rd. WR was abusing him last Sunday, with this only mitigated by the dreadful accuracy of our QB. Green is a flat out stud, no argument here. Smith was a situational pass rusher a team like us didn't have the ability to take a risk on (the ghost of Maybin fresh in the minds of the FO).
Jeebus Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 And wasn't Dareus rated the worst DT in the league two weeks ago? And then he got defensive honors the next week
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 No one could predict Watt being Reggies White, and we were changing schemes. Yes, we were trying to switch to a 3-4 according to Buddy. JJ Watt looks pretty freaking awesome in a 3-4, in fact.
Max997 Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) I hate drafting Corners with high picks. Really despised this pick especially with Dalton and many others sitting there Just another Texas player struggling in he NFL Edited October 20, 2012 by Max997
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) I think this week Aaron WIlliams will do good, who is with me? Having seen last week's game 3 times now, Aaron Williams played his best game of the season, FWIW. He was beaten only once in the first quarter when Kolb beat the blitz and threw an indefensible pass to Michael Floyd over Williams' outstretched hand.After that he was not exploited at all. Wilson to me this year has been so/so. Might be a product of trying to help young guys, mybe he has lost a step? Williams could take over for Wilson? like the backfield at that point. And yes i get there are some 'ifs' in there. What you guys think? I love "The Senator" but his tackling has been very shaky this year. Several times I've seen RBs just run through his tackles. He's looking more and more to me like a guy who the Bills will want to upgrade, either via Searcy or someone else. I wonder if the Bills would have taken Mark Barron had he been available. Dareus has certainly had his moments...BUT... AJ Green, Julio Jones, Patrick Peterson, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith anyone? Good grief those are 5 REALLY good young players...I mean...Those 5 guys figure to be perennial Pro-Bowlers...That hurts... Also, Robert Quinn could become an elite pass rusher and there were many people who liked him at that spot. I thought Aaron Williams had turned the corner (no pun intended) late last season when, at times at least, he was The Bills best player on Defense (ok...I admit that is NOT saying much)...But this year it seems he's reverted back to that CB we saw get toasted early on in his Rookie year...If anyone remembers, Williams had one of the worst pre-seasons I've seen in a long time for a CB...He got beat bad early on...Then before he got hurt last year, and a little after, he did not look much better...The thing is, Williams does not appear to have the quick's to keep up with NFL WR's...I think straight line he's OK...But he's not fluid enough...And his critics who said he was better suited at Safety in the NFL are looking pretty smart right now...Now combine that with the obvious fact that The Bills Drafted Williams ahead of Andy Dalton...Dalton may not be perfect...But he's young, big enough, he's a competitor, and he was a HUGE winner in College...The Bills also could have had LB Bruce Carter...I have one friend who is a die-hard Cowboys Fan...He tells me Carter is a future star in the NFL at LB...He's currently 2nd on the Team in Tackles and may be one of the fastest LB's in the NFL (and yes I know about his injury as a Sr...That's why he lasted into the 2nd Round)...Anyway...The big miss was still Dalton... It sure is looking that way. Many Fitz defenders (I still love the guy in a general sense) say that Dalton is a younger version of Fitz but nothing could be farther from the truth. The truth is that Dalton was considered an extremely accurate passer coming out of college. That alone is a significant difference between the two players. So...once again it looks like The Bills took the wrong guy...When you are looking at Premium Picks only (1st-3rd Rounds), Nix has simply not done good enough...Spiller is definitely a home-run threat...But The Bills still could have Lynch and Jackson at RB, and JPP at DE instead...Troup...Well...You know...Carrington? Umm...Hindsight may very well be 20/20, but sometimes it stings a little more...Like knowing that NaVorro Bowman went 18 Picks after Carrington...Ouch, ouch, ouch...Kelvin Sheppard has certainly not looked like anything spectacular...This years pack (Gilmore, Glenn, and TJ Graham) looks decent now...But how much would any Bills fan gamble that it will look as good next year, and the year after that? It just has not gone that way enough for this Scouting Department for whatever reason... In fairness, Lynch needed to move on and it seems clear to me at least that he simply didn't want to be here anymore. As for JPP, he's the kind of prospect that a solid, contending program can take a risk on later in the first round. Taking him at #11 was too high just like taking Christian Ponder at #3 was too high even though both players may ultimately justify that theoretical draft position. I've not closed the book on Sheppard or Carrington as both of them are coming off probably the best games of their careers. Nix said The Bills would build through the Draft...And he has done well to stick by that claim...The problem is if you are going to do that you have to hit a few home runs in the 1st-3rd Rounds...If you go three years and hit on 6 of those 9 players...now you're REALLY getting somewhere...Right now, of Buddy's nine, only Spiller and Glenn could be called potential home runs...Dareus is a decent Starter, but considering many felt he was the best prospect in the entire 2011 Draft, to this point the argument can be made that he has seriously underachieved...Gilmore looks like he could be a solid Starter at CB, but he's also struggled a bit as a Rookie and looked REAL bad on some plays...He's also looked good on others...You have Williams and Shep who are below average Starters...TJ Graham who looks like he may become a decent 2nd or 3rd WR...Carrington is a back-up DT and FG blocker...Troup is all but done...Not exactly what Buddy planned on with this Scouting Department...Not at all... I'm not saying you're wrong but IMO the young Bills players you mention still can't be judged as finished products. Fair enough as far as accountability is concerned. It's a performance based, results oriented league.As for Dareus, I don't think I'm off base. Kid was on the All-Rookie team, led his team in sacks, and played with some questionable talent along that front. But, please don't tell me you're going to blame last season's D on Dareus.As for some of the other players, performance is so often based on circumstance. Julio Jones went to a playoff team w/ a Pro-Bowler opposite of him. No one could predict Watt being Reggies White, and we were changing schemes. Peterson has built his reputation as a punt returner thus far. And unless my eyes deceived me, our 7th rd. WR was abusing him last Sunday, with this only mitigated by the dreadful accuracy of our QB.Green is a flat out stud, no argument here. Smith was a situational pass rusher a team like us didn't have the ability to take a risk on (the ghost of Maybin fresh in the minds of the FO). Yes, we were trying to switch to a 3-4 according to Buddy. JJ Watt looks pretty freaking awesome in a 3-4, in fact. I think JJ Watt would be fine in any scheme. He's that great a player IMO.The ONLY thing that bothered my about the Marcell Dareus pick is that it was such a great draft for defensive linemen so in that sense, it might have been a better strategy to pick one later on or even (here goes), trade down. For instance, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn look like premier players. I also loved Cam Jordan who has been misused by the Saints, as well as Cam Heyward. That's not to mention two guys who I was not sold on, DaQuan Bowers and Adrian Clayborne. And in the aftermath of the draft I wrote here that the Jets got great value with Muhammad Wilkerson and that he might become every bit the player Marcell Dareus is at a much lower cost.Other than the fact that there were so many other great D-linemen available, I had no complaints with the Dareus pick. I was very high on Von Miller who many here thought was the next Aaron Maybin. Edited October 20, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan
vincec Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Well, some of them. They gave us a great oline, a decent tight end, some ok receivers, a good rb, and a 100 mill dollar prize free agent. Other than that, their other choices have something still to prove I agree that they definitely improved the offense. They don't seem to have a clue on defense however.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Having seen last week's game 3 times now, Aaron Williams played his best game of the season, FWIW. He was beaten only once in the first quarter when Kolb beat the blitz and threw an indefensible pass to Michael Floyd over Williams' outstretched hand.After that he was not exploited at all. I just saw where Williams split snaps with McGee so that might have had something to do with him getting through the Arizona game relatively unscathed.
KOKBILLS Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 And in the aftermath of the draft I wrote here that the Jets got great value with Muhammad Wilkerson and that he might become every bit the player Marcell Dareus is at a much lower cost. Just my opinion...But the fact that anyone would have the guts to write that here, let alone that it may very well be true already, is proof positive of how Dareus has underachieved to this point...Marcell still has plenty of time to turn this around...I hope he's got the fire in his belly to do so...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Because AJ Green can bend over backwards while sprinting to catch wobbling passes a yard or more behind him? Yes! He makes all kinds of poor throws look great. This is what the bills completely lack. When is the last diving or amazing catch you saw from Donald jones or even SJ13. It either hits them in stride in the hands or it's not even close to a catch. An easy way to fix poor accuracy is bigger targets( catch radius).
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