GG Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Perception matters. It's a semantic argument, whether "act of terror" is synonymous with "terrorism" (hint: no). The debate, sheerly through presentation, made it the substantive issue. On which Romney, no matter what he "meant", and no matter what you think the proper role of a moderator should or should not be, got absolutely smoked. I'm not arguing the point that Romney didn't botch the exchange, which he clearly did. But, I continue to be astounded by apparently educated people focusing on the shiny object, instead of the substance. I totally understand how & why Obama has been elected. But I'm at a loss to explain how he may win again, despite his four year record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Though really, what does Obama have? "China," "Iran sanctions," "Libya," "Iraq," and "I killed bin Laden." It should be an awfully pathetic debate, actually. Unless Romney's team is smart, and realizes that the US credit downgrade is, in fact, a foreign policy issue, and uses that as leverage to direct the discussion towards more economic issues. Frankly...I don't think his team is that's smart. Romney's team isn't but I think Romney is. We shall see. Chris Matthews has already dubbed the next debate a win for Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 But, I continue to be astounded by apparently educated people focusing on the shiny object, instead of the substance. Why? You new to this country? Romney's team isn't but I think Romney is. We shall see. Chris Matthews has already dubbed the next debate a win for Obama. Chris Matthews lives in the same fantasyland as DiN...albiet in one of the more upscale neighborhoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm not arguing the point that Romney didn't botch the exchange, which he clearly did. But, I continue to be astounded by apparently educated people focusing on the shiny object, instead of the substance. I totally understand how & why Obama has been elected. But I'm at a loss to explain how he may win again, despite his four year record. Memories are short. No one remembers how the ACA was passed, what situation he walked in (aside from the one he keeps repeating) and how congress became gridlocked because of his own action. One of the points you keep repeating, there is a **** load of money on the sidelines earning negative ROI should be a red flag but the average bloke doesn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Romney's team isn't but I think Romney is. We shall see. Chris Matthews has already dubbed the next debate a win for Obama. Matthews is already measuring out space on Mount Rushmore for Obama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Matthews is already measuring out space on Mount Rushmore for Obama bull ****. No way they put Obama's mug on a mountain with slave owners like Jefferson and Washington. Obama gets his very own mountain. Probably Mount Sinai, since it's the only one holy enough for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why? You new to this country? Apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I'm not arguing the point that Romney didn't botch the exchange, which he clearly did. But, I continue to be astounded by apparently educated people focusing on the shiny object, Americans love shiny objects even the poor and homeless which is probably why Ryan rewashed clean pans- "never too shiny, never too shiny for the people I love" he was heard to mutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Americans love shiny objects even the poor and homeless which is probably why Ryan rewashed clean pans- "never too shiny, never too shiny for the people I love" he was heard to mutter. Fact check--they really were dirty, if it matters. Don't you wish you were a shiny object rather than being so dull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Americans love shiny objects even the poor and homeless which is probably why Ryan rewashed clean pans- "never too shiny, never too shiny for the people I love" he was heard to mutter. Thank you for the daily affirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2WVJNxOpvY really you can hear him mutter if you listen close enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Romney's team isn't but I think Romney is. We shall see. Chris Matthews has already dubbed the next debate a win for Obama. As an Obama supporter, debate #2 kind of felt like the Bills/Cardinals game on Sunday...I know "we won", but it doesn't feel so great! Edited October 18, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Holy crap. RCP delegates map now has Romney ahead of Obama 206-201. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 As an Obama supporter, debate #2 kind of felt like the Bills/Cardinals game on Sunday...I know "we won", but it doesn't feel so great! I have many friends who are Obama supporters and I still can't get a coherent response on why he should be re-elected apart from empathetic answers and rhetoric not based on reality. What you're seeing in the debates is something that I expected you would see. Two intelligent men, one with more of a vision than facts and another more on reality than really a vision. It's important to note that I don't really believe that Romney will be able to deliver on his promises but I do honestly believe that he would be able to deliver some form of economic progress that has been lacking the last four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have many friends who are Obama supporters and I still can't get a coherent response on why he should be re-elected apart from empathetic answers and rhetoric not based on reality. What you're seeing in the debates is something that I expected you would see. Two intelligent men, one with more of a vision than facts and another more on reality than really a vision. Kind-of like me debating DiN, if DiN had intelligence and vision. Okay, nothing like me debating DiN. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Holy crap. RCP delegates map now has Romney ahead of Obama 206-201. http://www.realclear...ollege_map.html New Jersey is not in a Solid Obama camp? Holy crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Holy crap. RCP delegates map now has Romney ahead of Obama 206-201. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html Add in *recent* polling and where it's now all but a lost cause for Obama post-(two)-debates (Florida and Virginia) and a likely win for Obama just based on history, it's Romney 257, Obama 221 with 60 as toss-up. That's where it seems to get tough going for Romney based on the other numbers out there and especially with a clincher in Ohio that's been very hard to gauge. But it could actually be a 269 stalemate if Romney wins Iowa and Nevada from that 257. This one's probably going to be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Memories are short. No one remembers how the ACA was passed, what situation he walked in (aside from the one he keeps repeating) and how congress became gridlocked because of his own action. hehe, if you buy the narrative that Obama made Washington gridlocked, then I have a bridge to sell. you. It's like saying some guy who's boat leaked fuel in some river which has various manufacturing plants polluting it as well and other boats leaking fuel into it...like saying that guy polluted the river. Well, yes...he did...but it isn't his fault the river is polluted. And that isn't even a good analogy b/c quite frankly, the way the incentives in Washington are you literally cannot help but leak fuel...there is no way with the current procedural rules in Congress and partisan forces in local districts that anyone can be some "magic man"...not Obama in '08, and certainly not Romney in '12...which is why when people bring up Mass as a liberal state and him being governor they just sound stupid b/c it's basically admitting they don't understand Washington and why it sucks...it isn't Mass Edited October 18, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2WVJNxOpvY really you can hear him mutter if you listen close enough Good work.... Stay focused on the big issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juror#8 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have many friends who are Obama supporters and I still can't get a coherent response on why he should be re-elected apart from empathetic answers and rhetoric not based on reality. What you're seeing in the debates is something that I expected you would see. Two intelligent men, one with more of a vision than facts and another more on reality than really a vision. It's important to note that I don't really believe that Romney will be able to deliver on his promises but I do honestly believe that he would be able to deliver some form of economic progress that has been lacking the last four years. Good post. I agree with everything that you said starting with "I" and ending with "." You should post here more. I suspect that this type of approach, expressed nationally, would sway a lot of independents and people who just don't like Romney. For the briefest of moments, your post made a Romney presidency seem almost palatable - if nothing else because it would be difficult to be more ineffectual than the current WH has been (broad scale). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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