ajzepp Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm proud that it's my alma mater, Temple University, that I get to use as the example for the future of Buffalo Bills special teams. I have been saying for years that I think it's completely asinine to have BOTH a punter and a kicker taking up a roster spots. Over the years you've had quarterbacks who can punt just fine, and it has never made sense to me why professional kickers can't also PUNT the damn thing, too. I just turned 40 y.o. but I bet that I could go out there on Sundays and punt for a respectable average! The fact that we have THREE damn roster spots taken up by these hosers is a real shame, especially when we lose a quality player like Johnny White. So hopefully next season the Bills will draft this kid, my fellow Temple Owl, and cut Lindell, Powell, and Potter. http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/owlsinq/McManus-named-Big-East-specialist-of-the-week-Temple-Owls.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 I"m glad you all agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Throw in the long snapper, too. What, can't find ONE guy on the roster who can be both a regular starter and do long snaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Throw in the long snapper, too. What, can't find ONE guy on the roster who can be both a regular starter and do long snaps? Now we're talking! Who else can we cut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 For the want of a nail, a kingdom was lost.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Throw in the long snapper, too. What, can't find ONE guy on the roster who can be both a regular starter and do long snaps? Always wondered this. How is long snapping not in the repertoire of most starting centers? It's not a radically different skill than snapping in the shotgun formation, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Always wondered this. How is long snapping not in the repertoire of most starting centers? It's not a radically different skill than snapping in the shotgun formation, is it? it is much different, a lot more distance and velocity needed. Long snapping well is a pretty specialized skill. Edited October 17, 2012 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 it is much different, a lot more distance and velocity needed. Long snapping well is a pretty specialized skill. Right, but is it a specialized skill that most naturally gifted athletes couldn't master? Bear in mind, I have no idea what I'm actually talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Right, but is it a specialized skill that most naturally gifted athletes couldn't master? Bear in mind, I have no idea what I'm actually talking about. lol That's sort of my point, too. A bit unrelated, but it's also why I get annoyed when someone like James Harrison whines about getting fined/flagged for an illegal hit. You are a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER...you should be able to perfect the art of tackling - and anyone who has played the game knows there IS an art to it - and not have to worry about getting fined to begin with. By the same token, why can't professional kickers learn to friggin punt, and why can't professional centers learn to long snap? Hell, we took two complete projects in Jason Peters and Demetreus Bell and turned them into starting left tackles. That seems like it would be far less probable than any of the things were talking about in this thread, doesn't it? Why do so many NFL guys seem limited to just one skill set? I get the fact that the game sort of lends itself to specialists, but I would bet any money that Potter or Lindell (or hell, one of the non-kickers on the roster) could learn to punt the ball for the same or close to the same net average as Moorman or Powell. I would bet that if one team decided to make the switch to a single kicker/punter, you'd have like ten other teams doing the same thing by the end of the season. Roster spots are at a premium....I find it hard to believe that a punter has more value than a quality depth player on the Oline, LB, CB, etc. Maybe would could have kept someone like Derek Haggan? Not everyone loved J.White, but he'll sure come in handy if Freddy and CJ go down again. Edited October 17, 2012 by ajzepp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 There are different rules on kicks to protect the long snapper because it is so different than snapping to a qb, even in shotgun. You have to be more bent over and looking backwards between your legs to have any chance at an accurate snap with enough zip on it. Therefore the long snapper is vulnerable and doesn't really block. Not all teams have a roster spot dedicated to a long snapper. Some centers and back up linemen do it. However, even though there's rules protecting the long snapper, it's still easy for them to be injured because of the vulnerable position they're put in: head down (blind to the clusterfunk of guys trying to block and block the kick) and with no leverage. So plenty of teams don't risk injuring a starting o lineman in that situation. Injury plays a role in keeping a kicker and punter too. If one goes down and you've only got one, there goes your entire special teams impact. Plus, being specialized means you're that much better at one. Coaches think it's important enough to have a dedicated guy at each position, so there you go. Think of it this way, even though it's a stretch: Any guy playing WR could probably make a decent CB, and vice versa. But if one guy playing two positions goes down, you're doubly screwed. Same with Oline and Dline. Most of those guys could probably be decent on the other side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I've played golf w/ a club pro before. Really awesome golfer. I'm sure he has a negative handicap. The guy can hit shots that I'm incapable of. In fact, I might go so far to say that to anyone but the most knowledgeable of observers, there's no shot that Tiger Woods could hit that he can't duplicate. Now, who do you think is a better golfer? I'll give you a hint - he's the one who makes about 100x more. Yes, I'm sure Potter can kick FGs, Lindell can punt, etc; all better than you & I (& again, to the casual observer, you probably couldn't discern the difference on many of the attempts. But they don't do it as well as one who specializes in that "art", specifically not as consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The league is watered down enough by expansion teams. Imagine adding 32 guys from the PS to NFL teams. Would that make one bit of difference? No. Would I like to see the PS expanded so you could keep a guy that might be the next Kurt Warner or Jason Peters...hell yes That makes more sense than adding an extra spot for the active roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 For the want of a nail, a kingdom was lost.... What I say is mostly in jest. I suspect one of the main reasons that someone as specialized as a long snapper is retained is for practice/preparation purposes. The big downside to having a regular player do long snaps is that guy having to split his practice time between his regular duties and practicing long snaps and forcing the kickers to practice on a separate schedule from everyone else and so on (which probably already is somewhat the case given that most special teams players also have at least backup roles at regular roster spots if not starting roles). Mainly, what I'm saying is that if the NFL suddenly decided to cut the 53-man roster to, say 50, then you'd have to seriously look at the long snapper position and re-evaluate that need. On the other hand, if a bad snap results in a lost Super Bowl or something serious, all could indeed be lost. Nice quote - point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 For the want of a nail, a kingdom was lost.... How do you know who represents the nail? this isn't being proposed as a way to cut corners or go on the cheap....my argument is that the overall team is strengthened by having greater depth as opposed to splitting the kicking duties among two (or three, in our case) roster spots. This wouldn't have mattered a season or two ago, but we have some areas of legit depth on this team, where the decisions that were made on who to keep and who to cut were not easy. Next year it will likely be even tougher, and we'll likely let some players with potential walk out the door. I used the example of Derek Haggan because every time I turn the Raiders on, I see this guy making a play. There will be others like him next year, especially if we have a solid draft. So how do you know we're not already IN the "lost kingdom" position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmasThoman Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 How do you know who represents the nail? this isn't being proposed as a way to cut corners or go on the cheap....my argument is that the overall team is strengthened by having greater depth as opposed to splitting the kicking duties among two (or three, in our case) roster spots. This wouldn't have mattered a season or two ago, but we have some areas of legit depth on this team, where the decisions that were made on who to keep and who to cut were not easy. Next year it will likely be even tougher, and we'll likely let some players with potential walk out the door. I used the example of Derek Haggan because every time I turn the Raiders on, I see this guy making a play. There will be others like him next year, especially if we have a solid draft. So how do you know we're not already IN the "lost kingdom" position? not to mention the fact that our kingdom is mogadishu at this point in time, so who really cares if it "falls apart." what are we going to do, miss the playoffs? i think its the type of radical thinking that would happen if mark cuban was our owner. cut the punter, DONT punt on 4th downs unless were inside our 20 or its 4th and over 10 yards, and then just have our field goal kicker boot it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Throw in the long snapper, too. What, can't find ONE guy on the roster who can be both a regular starter and do long snaps? I've always thought this. Doesn't have to be a starter either. Teach every person on the OL how to do it, pick out some other candidates, have them work on it in and someone competent has to fall out - even if it takes a year/offseason to do it. It is a specialized skill, but honestly how hard is it really that out of a group of the best athletes in the world someone can't master it? The other thing I can't stand is wasting a spot on kickoff specialist. Never understood why an elite group of the best people who kick a football in the world can't practice/train to just kick a ball 10 yards further off a tee. That - or make everyone on the roster a candidate for kickoff specialist. Take guys with promise and work with them until someone can do it. You've got a collection of 50 of the best athletes in the world, most who have played multiple sports at an elite level, out of that you can't find one person to train to kick a stupid ball out of the end zone???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 There have been a few players who both kicked and punted but it seems they've gotten more rare. I seem to remember that Russell Erxleben performed both duties for a short while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 There have been a few players who both kicked and punted but it seems they've gotten more rare. There was a time it was common place. But that was also the time that rosters were limited to 40, FG kickers made about 60% (Now, you're in jeopardy of losing your job if you make less than 90%), and kickoffs (from the 40) often didn't reach the end zone. Before that, it was performed by "regular" football players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I started watching football in the 60s. Back then a lot guys kicked and punted. Danny White was a backup QB and darn good punter. He was a darn good QB too. But when he took over as starter, they got a full time punter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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