K-9 Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 People are going to overreact like they always do. He & ND got worked. Bama's oline were the MVPs. It's impossible to play linebacker when you are constantly being engaged by blockers. Urlacher & Ray Lewis struggled without good linemen as well. Bottom line, the guy has overcome his grandmother & girlfriend dying in the same week. He had a terrible game but I'm not betting against. Watch him slide, some team drafts him later, gets a steal, & people wonder why he fell. If he switched teams, how good would he have looked? P.s. what's the draft prospects on Barrett Jones? A guy who can play LT, C, & guard seems like a great bargain. If he switched teams last night, he wouldn't have been in the starting lineup. Alabama's MLB looked far more fast and athletic. And while there were plenty of instances when an OLman engaged him, there were many when he had clear, unobstructed shots to make the tackle and he simply whiffed. Even so, a middle linebacker MUST show the ability to shed a bigger lineman more often than not or use his athleticism to avoid the OLman more often than not. But whether he was clean or engaged, Manti wasn't making the plays. Most damning was that the other LB next to him WAS able to make more plays as the evening progressed. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Ultimately, short of a Brandon spikes 40, he's at worst a top of the second type guy (Rey Mualuga type slide if he's 4.8+) As long as he's 4.65 range, he's still in the teens, depending on fit to scheme, needs etc....
Fan in San Diego Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 People are going to overreact like they always do. He & ND got worked. Bama's oline were the MVPs. It's impossible to play linebacker when you are constantly being engaged by blockers. Urlacher & Ray Lewis struggled without good linemen as well. Bottom line, the guy has overcome his grandmother & girlfriend dying in the same week. He had a terrible game but I'm not betting against. Watch him slide, some team drafts him later, gets a steal, & people wonder why he fell. If he switched teams, how good would he have looked? P.s. what's the draft prospects on Barrett Jones? A guy who can play LT, C, & guard seems like a great bargain. when did that happen? I hadn't anything about that. I usually don't follow college ball a whole lot.
Maddog69 Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 P.s. what's the draft prospects on Barrett Jones? A guy who can play LT, C, & guard seems like a great bargain. Jones announced after the game that he has a Lis Franc injury that will require surgery. I imagine this will affect his draft stock.
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) when did that happen? I hadn't anything about that. I usually don't follow college ball a whole lot. Around the same time that dareus lost his brother. I didnt even think about that but, hell, it's possible that 6 weeks off gave that time to catch up to him mentally. Sometimes always having a game on Saturday helps a guy stay focused then you hit quiet time, holidays, get a little rusty and lay an egg after 6 weeks out of routine. Athletically he's certainly limited but his reads, and technique are normally much better than THAT showing. Edited January 8, 2013 by NoSaint
K-9 Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Ultimately, short of a Brandon spikes 40, he's at worst a top of the second type guy (Rey Mualuga type slide if he's 4.8+) As long as he's 4.65 range, he's still in the teens, depending on fit to scheme, needs etc.... That may depend on his performance in other tests that measure explosion and agility. Straight line speed to the hole is nice, but when it comes to MLBs, it's about lateral movement as much as anything else. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 That may depend on his performance in other tests that measure explosion and agility. Straight line speed to the hole is nice, but when it comes to MLBs, it's about lateral movement as much as anything else. GO BILLS!!! Agreed, just giving a cliff notes. If any drill is awful it'll effect it, if all are atleast average he will be fine though.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Ultimately, short of a Brandon spikes 40, he's at worst a top of the second type guy (Rey Mualuga type slide if he's 4.8+) As long as he's 4.65 range, he's still in the teens, depending on fit to scheme, needs etc.... He's listed at 4.55. Eddie Lacy is listed likewise. OTOH, it looked like anyone wearing red and white last night had no trouble pulling away from him. Edit: ESPN's site has him listed at 4.8 in the 40.
LiterateStylish Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 I want this guy no where near the Bills on draft day. Let someone else take him. He is Poz 2.0 but not as good. As another poster mentioned, if he was on Alabama, he wouldn't be in the starting lineup. Many people tried to make the point that it was because of his defensive line. Well... the LB to his left played decently well and he had the same defensive line in front of him. No thanks to Teo.
Cash Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Okay. Talent is lacking so we must trade down/up/sideways etc. But if you see that, then every NFL GM sees that too. So how does one make a trade when other GMs don't think it's worth trading up? I've always marvel at people who act like trading a pick or player is this automatic thing you get just by asking. PTR And yet, somehow, multiple trades happen in the first round every year. I think I would enjoy watching the draft with you: "Another trade?! Inconceivable!" "You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what you think it means." ND's interior DL have been hyped all season. Lewis Nix III was called "the best Nose Tackle in college football" going into the game. Even when Teo was clean, he missed tackles. It was pitiful watching Teo and the rest of the ND defense taking horrible angles, and getting run right through all night. Now, I'll give you that ND got out-classed first and foremost in the coaching department. Saban and staff have been here before, expect to be here every year, and know how to handle that month off. And it showed. Bama coaches had their guys playing like they did all year, if not better. ND looked like they hadnt played a game in 40 days, and had a nice holiday last week. But holy cow, for a kid that was hyped as a Top 10 draft pick, you better make tackles when you have a clear shot at the runner. I never thought Teo was good value in the Top 10 as LBs in general disappoint when taken that high. But he isnt even in the same class as guys like Willis or even McCain. Give me LBs that regularly play and produce against the biggest, strongest, and fastest competition. I'll keep Sheppard in the middle, thanks. Good breakdown; I agree with just about all of this. I'm not going to crucify Te'o on one game, but I definitely don't want him at #8, even in a weak draft.
truth on hold Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Manti T'ebow? I doubt it. Keuchly's instincts are a big part of what makes him a special player. I can't really speak to T'eo's instincts because last night was the first time I tried to watch him play. Hence use of the word "somewhat". To my eye kuechly looks faster and more physical at the point of attack. But teo has been in on more turnovers so maybe his instincts are a little better and that can close the physical ability gap. We'll see how he looks at the combine.
Billy in 4C Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 There is hate for Poz all over this thread... I get it that he's not Patrick Willis but Poz would easily be the best LB on the Bills right now and it's not even close. That said, Tao got a reality check last night
dpberr Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 I'm not on either side of the great T'eo debate but I get the impression that blue chip defensive talent shows up in the big bowl games. I don't follow college football as closely as some of you. I do get the impression that Alabama is as close to NFL caliber talent that there is in college footballl these days so yeah, a casual observer like me looks at how someone competes against it.
simpleman Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Okay. Talent is lacking so we must trade down/up/sideways etc. But if you see that, then every NFL GM sees that too. So how does one make a trade when other GMs don't think it's worth trading up? I've always marvel at people who act like trading a pick or player is this automatic thing you get just by asking. PTR It is really irritating that people make comments because they don't have the ability to read or comprehend what is written. I said "If he drops in the draft as a result of this performance, then it is even more incentive to trade down in the first for a later 1st and an extra 2nd round pick if there are any offers" I never implied it was automatic, I qualified it with the statement " if ". And even though there may not be an abundance of top talent in this draft, there may always be a player rated #1 in a specific position on any teams ratings for their particular position of need, who unexpectedly drops in the draft enough that the team may be willing to trade up to get them using our pick. Especially if they feel he will be gone by their pick. Yes, even the Bills traded up last year because they felt they just HAD to get TJ in the 3rd and couldn't afford to wait a half dozen picks and chance not getting him. Trades do happen regularly in the NFL "Of the 221 picks in the 2012 NFL Draft that could be traded (compensatory picks cannot be dealt), 101 (45.7 percent) changed hands at least once, including picks traded before the first round started" NFL.com. Almost 50 % of the picks were the result of trades. The question might be how many trades were actually proposed, negotiated and then not agreed upon? Sounds like it would not extremely implausible to say there might be a 3 out of 4 chance that a trade could be offered for any given pick in the NFL. Edited January 8, 2013 by simpleman
truth on hold Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Well if they are really adopting a "money ball" philosophy you can expect Bills to trade around a lot more too. But if you really want Teo and can get him at 8, would you be willing to trade down much and take a chance of losing him?
simpleman Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Well if they are really adopting a "money ball" philosophy you can expect Bills to trade around a lot more too. But if you really want Teo and can get him at 8, would you be willing to trade down much and take a chance of losing him? Well, after his performance at the game, Minter, Mingo, or Ogletree might be just as good choices if he isn't there later. Edited January 8, 2013 by simpleman
LiterateStylish Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 There is hate for Poz all over this thread... I get it that he's not Patrick Willis but Poz would easily be the best LB on the Bills right now and it's not even close. That said, Tao got a reality check last night Agreed. Problem is that Poz is a better player than Teo is. So the question is, would you spend the 8th pick, or even a 1st round pick, who is a slightly worse version of Poz? I wouldn't.
truth on hold Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Poz got off to a rough start here because of the injuries. As a result I was a seller of the guy too. But after his health stabilized I grew to appreciate his game. Casualty of the misguided shift to 3-4, what a shame. Agreed he'd be our best LB by a wide margin
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 I was a big Manti Te'O fan, but he couldn't get off blocks last night. He was engulfed by the Alabama Olinemen. I am no draft expert, and know one game doesn't a career make, but man that didn't look good.
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