Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 "I think it's a couple of things,'' said Kyle Williams. "Gap control, which is important because if just one guy doesn't cover his gap, if the guy thinks he can move over and make a play instead of playing disciplined and staying in his gap, then a [cut-back] runner can make a big play against us, and that's been happening. So that's been a big focus this week at practice. And I think we've had so many third-and-twos, third-and-threes ... When a quarterback has those time after time, he can call so many different things. Whereas if it's third-and-five-to-10, you're in a much better position to be able to rush the passer and be disruptive.'' Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/10/12/nfl-game-plan-week6/index.html#ixzz299tpTLIN Apparently we are back to the Jauron style of play were the defense is playing a single gap defense. Chan knew this style of Defense was the biggest problem before he got here and is why he switched to 34 which is usually a two gap defense. The biggest problem with the single gap defense is that you need superstars at every position and they need to play perfectly or huge plays occur. The other problem with this defense is that superstars are expensive and are hard to find for all positions. The two gap system only needs a couple of great players and the rest can be good to be a great defense (Steelers, Ravens, 49ers etc). When you have two people playing a gap then if one makes a mistake the other should be there to cover it. Also This D generally plays zone in the secondary, which also doesn't require superstar players. If Nix went out and got a real NT and two pass rushing linebackers our 34 would have worked and we wouldn't be in this mess nor spent 100 mil on Marrio. We should have gotten NT Terrence Cody in 2010 and then rushers Aldon Smith and Brooks Reed in 2011 and don't give me that Hindsight crap, these guys were great in college and were/are better than Troup, Batten and Moats ever were in college.
CarolinaBill Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Cody is a pt player, I get hes a massive body, but hes not THE answer for a NT.
spartacus Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 you seem to be a might bit confused about what ther terms 1-gap and 2-gap mean go back and do some resarch and get back to us
vincec Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 The advantage to the single gap style of defense is that the DTs can be aggressive because they don't have to react to two gaps or protect the LBs. They're supposed to "play on the other side of the line of scrimmage" as Gailey talked about after the NE game. They're just not doing it. Many good defenses in the NFL are single gap defenses. Also, given the evidence on the field, and by his own admission, Gailey doesn't know anything about defense. So Chan's analysis of the defensive situation when he got to Buffalo is suspect.
machine gun kelly Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 It's not 4-3 that is the problem, and two years ago on this board people were so pissed we had zero talent for the 3-4 and got killed. If you want to be captain hindsight, instead of taking Lynch, we should have traded up one spot and taken Patrick Willis. The rest of this defense with a stud like him makes us immediately better, and our scheme is wrong. Wanny is getting out coached by Belicheck, Rex, and Harbaugh. We don't have an accurate QB, Chan never heard of this thing in the NFL called the FORWARD PASS, and as a result we continue to go third and long. Anyone else nervous every time our offense gets on the field as there is no confidence they can move the ball. The defense gets gased, and we are constantly in the wrong package or formation. Our db's are going to get better, and need to press better to take out the short passing lanes. We also need basically one LB for pressure on the QB. If we can't pass protect with 2lb, and 4 db's then we suck. This team will never get better until we are better coached, and have a better QB, along with an offensive weapon as a WR and/or TE, and at least 1 stud LB. The good news is we are from a talent perspective much better than 2010, and could demonstrate significant progress moving fwd. Even though he's making mistakes, I like Bradham. He'll get better with time. I know these are several conventional thoughts, and I don't post as often as many of you, I just don't think there is some new creative idea that'll is the answer. It's staring us right in the face. Lastly, say goodbye to Chan after this year. One more blowout and chan will fire Wanny to save his job. Then he'll get canned at the end of 2012. We'll never get a big name so we need some excellent coordinator who is willing to build a team and we'll go through another rebuild. This time though Nix I still believe is a good GM, wholly has made our scouting dept better, and thus will give us better ingredients in the soup. I'd love to be wrong and we kick the crap out of the Pats and Texans, not to mention beat the Cards tomorrow. I don't see it happening. Alright I'm done venting. Sorry guys, I just hate losing as much as all of you and my team is a punchline down here as I live in FL. I've had it with hearing about the usual suspects, I.e. Steelers, Ravens, Packers, ya da ya da.
NoSaint Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Yes- aldon smith and brooks reed are better than moats and batten. Forget hindsight, they were drafted 4-5 rounds earlier so even before everyone knew that.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 We don't have an accurate QB, Chan never heard of this thing in the NFL called the FORWARD PASS, and as a result we continue to go third and long. That's sarcasm, right? Got to be.
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Top needs as of now: 1) Def coordinator that is aggressive 2) Strong armed QB that can make 20+yrd passes and hit WRs in stride 3) A dominating LB that can blitz & cover TEs 4) a tall and fast WR with good hands that can out-battle DBs The first 2 are crucial & way overdue. We should start there and then see how we do.
thewildrabbit Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 No offense BB, but to me its more then just the scheme or play calling! These players have been playing defense all their lives and must be pretty darn good at it to be at where they are. None of them is playing up to their potential, none of them. Almost every player on the Bills defense has a very good pedigree and should be making plays. I look at the Bills defense and have to think its 100% coaching, in terms of getting the players to understand their role in the defense and playing at their best. Also the players look like they are just going thru the motions and not overachieving like they did with Jauron. What people forget is that the players loved Jauron and played their hearts out for him, particularly on defense.(Poz & Whitner not looking so bad now are they?) Jauron's problem was lack of pass rush and lack of talent in certain areas, like at LBer / DE. This Bills defense has the talent to dominate, they just lack the direction and motivation.Although they still lack some talent at LBer. This team is still lacking talent in certain areas after 3 years ( it shouldn't be) More importantly this team is lacking motivation from the coaching staff and also from the players side, the Bills don't have a Ray Lewis anywhere!
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I would rather have JP Losman, VY & Levi Brown over the QBs on our current roster. IJS
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 I thought the Bills D always played their hearts out for Perry Fewell more than anyone else. Also - that is why a new DC is at the very top of my list.
Just in Atlanta Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 That's why our defense is putrid? Gap control? Sounds like a Prince song. Is that what Wanny means by "fit it up?" Seriously--why can't we have a two-gap system in a 4-3? Our D sucked in a 3-4. It sucks even worse in a 4-3. I really don't understand all of this. Seems to me it's a simple case of our D line not getting any pressure, teams adjusting properly, and Wanny not having the ability to play the chess game with solid O coordinators. Twice, teams have exploited our pass heavy D, with one or two LBs, with a run attack. Three times, our philosophy of not blitzing has bit us in the ass. Seems to me this is a simple lack of ferociousness by the D line, poor play calling, stubborn committal to philosophy, and the inevitable mistakes of two young CBs.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 reminds me of jauron's defense. worked awesome assuming you have 11 HOF players out there.
Best Player Available Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 "I think it's a couple of things,'' said Kyle Williams. "Gap control, which is important because if just one guy doesn't cover his gap, if the guy thinks he can move over and make a play instead of playing disciplined and staying in his gap, then a [cut-back] runner can make a big play against us, and that's been happening. So that's been a big focus this week at practice. And I think we've had so many third-and-twos, third-and-threes ... When a quarterback has those time after time, he can call so many different things. Whereas if it's third-and-five-to-10, you're in a much better position to be able to rush the passer and be disruptive.'' Read more: http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz299tpTLIN Apparently we are back to the Jauron style of play were the defense is playing a single gap defense. Chan knew this style of Defense was the biggest problem before he got here and is why he switched to 34 which is usually a two gap defense. The biggest problem with the single gap defense is that you need superstars at every position and they need to play perfectly or huge plays occur. The other problem with this defense is that superstars are expensive and are hard to find for all positions. The two gap system only needs a couple of great players and the rest can be good to be a great defense (Steelers, Ravens, 49ers etc). When you have two people playing a gap then if one makes a mistake the other should be there to cover it. Also This D generally plays zone in the secondary, which also doesn't require superstar players. If Nix went out and got a real NT and two pass rushing linebackers our 34 would have worked and we wouldn't be in this mess nor spent 100 mil on Marrio. We should have gotten NT Terrence Cody in 2010 and then rushers Aldon Smith and Brooks Reed in 2011 and don't give me that Hindsight crap, these guys were great in college and were/are better than Troup, Batten and Moats ever were in college. Gap control? So what is Kyle saying a bunch of guys supposedly some of the best at their positions after playing football for basically their whole lives.Suddenly forgot how to control their gaps? I don't buy it. It's a player being nice and not throwing his coach under the bus.
chris heff Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Top needs as of now: 1) New Owner 2) New GM 3) New Coach 4) An Offensive Coordinator 5) Def coordinator that is aggressive 6) Strong armed QB that can make 20+yrd passes and hit WRs in stride 7)A dominating LB that can blitz & cover TEs 8) a tall and fast WR with good hands that can out-battle DBs The first 2 are crucial & way overdue. We should start there and then see how we do. There I fixed it for you.
3rdand12 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 i lean heavily towards coaching. Sure he's been out a while and getting a feel for the players. But i have seen Gilmore turn around after a broken play doing a WTF. Even George, who knows this game looks lost. TOO much talent on this field to play so poorly. And i have seen the heads hanging on the field and the sideline. I thought it was mostly Fitz, but now i think Wannstadt does not have the guys buying in. Do well to get down on the field for awhile and start spitting vulgarities, in your face like, and showing he gives a s==t. i am sure he does but he has to get the players on board During the game. Not on wednesday. Kyle is a good kid and i agree BPA
K-9 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Gap control? So what is Kyle saying a bunch of guys supposedly some of the best at their positions after playing football for basically their whole lives.Suddenly forgot how to control their gaps? I don't buy it. It's a player being nice and not throwing his coach under the bus. Whether he's defending Wanny or not, he's absolutely correct. And 99% of the gap control problem is stemming from our LBs, although I saw Kyle Moore make a boneheaded play when he slid inside trying to make a play, abandoned his responsibility, and the Niner RB had an easy lane for a 13 yard gain. When teams are getting spanked, players will naturally try to make big plays in an over-reaction to the circumstances. Discipline goes out the window, they end up missing assignments and tackles, and the whole thing breaks down. And then they quit. Like they did in each of the last two 4th quarters of games. GO BILLS!!!
sllib olaffub Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 It's not 4-3 that is the problem, and two years ago on this board people were so pissed we had zero talent for the 3-4 and got killed. If you want to be captain hindsight, instead of taking Lynch, we should have traded up one spot and taken Patrick Willis. The rest of this defense with a stud like him makes us immediately better, and our scheme is wrong. Wanny is getting out coached by Belicheck, Rex, and Harbaugh. We don't have an accurate QB, Chan never heard of this thing in the NFL called the FORWARD PASS, and as a result we continue to go third and long. Anyone else nervous every time our offense gets on the field as there is no confidence they can move the ball. The defense gets gased, and we are constantly in the wrong package or formation. Our db's are going to get better, and need to press better to take out the short passing lanes. We also need basically one LB for pressure on the QB. If we can't pass protect with 2lb, and 4 db's then we suck. This team will never get better until we are better coached, and have a better QB, along with an offensive weapon as a WR and/or TE, and at least 1 stud LB. The good news is we are from a talent perspective much better than 2010, and could demonstrate significant progress moving fwd. Even though he's making mistakes, I like Bradham. He'll get better with time. I know these are several conventional thoughts, and I don't post as often as many of you, I just don't think there is some new creative idea that'll is the answer. It's staring us right in the face. Lastly, say goodbye to Chan after this year. One more blowout and chan will fire Wanny to save his job. Then he'll get canned at the end of 2012. We'll never get a big name so we need some excellent coordinator who is willing to build a team and we'll go through another rebuild. This time though Nix I still believe is a good GM, wholly has made our scouting dept better, and thus will give us better ingredients in the soup. I'd love to be wrong and we kick the crap out of the Pats and Texans, not to mention beat the Cards tomorrow. I don't see it happening. Alright I'm done venting. Sorry guys, I just hate losing as much as all of you and my team is a punchline down here as I live in FL. I've had it with hearing about the usual suspects, I.e. Steelers, Ravens, Packers, ya da ya da. Thanks for the post! I agree with much of what you're saying. The problems are numerous. Why not begin with coaching? I've said it before - don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on players until you've spent what you need to to get a great coach. Great coaches can do more for a team than 10 good players. That applies to our coaches - they're not getting the job done. They appear to be getting outcoached. As for talent - well, it's been obvious to almost all of us fans for more than two years now - Fitz isn't going to get us to the playoffs, and certainly not to a SuperBowl. When you have to make special gameplans to accomodate a QB's weaknesses - as we always have to do - then it is no wonder every defense looks great against us. They know exactly what Fitz cannot do, and they know what he likes to do. That is a recipe for disaster. You NEED to have a QB who can get the ball to any place on the field with a good degree of consistency. Really - with the right coaches, we only need a legitimate QB, another big, speedy WR, and a superstar LB. If the right people were running this organization, we'd trade up next year and get the QB in the draft. Then we'd do whatever we had to to either trade for, pick up in FA, or draft the other 2 needs. It is within reach of one offseason. Unfortunately for us, this organization is so blunderingly terrible that we'll probably see someone in the coaching staff get canned, another scheme change, and another multiple year prognosis for getting better. All of which will only add fuel to the perception that the Bills are ready to be moved. If I could see this team's future unwind as I would like, it would happen like this: We'd get an owner or ownership group here in Buffalo that would keep the team here - maybe build a stadium near Niagra Falls (seems like a no-brainer, especially with the Canadian fanbase). Then he'd go out and get a very good GM - maybe someone like Parcells - who would get us the right coaches to turn this thing around. First thing they do - get that QB in the draft. WV's QB would be a nice way to bring in a new era in Buffalo, no? It can be done in one year. It should be. That's why it's so hard to continue to be an active Bills fan - we, the fans, are capable of making better decisions than the ownership.
NoSaint Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 Whether he's defending Wanny or not, he's absolutely correct. And 99% of the gap control problem is stemming from our LBs, although I saw Kyle Moore make a boneheaded play when he slid inside trying to make a play, abandoned his responsibility, and the Niner RB had an easy lane for a 13 yard gain. When teams are getting spanked, players will naturally try to make big plays in an over-reaction to the circumstances. Discipline goes out the window, they end up missing assignments and tackles, and the whole thing breaks down. And then they quit. Like they did in each of the last two 4th quarters of games. GO BILLS!!! Agreed. I felt like I saw this a ton from the LBs lately. And then after awhile your just demoralized. Instead of making big plays our lbs need to step back and focus on just making textbook plays with free lancing.
ko12010 Posted October 13, 2012 Posted October 13, 2012 It's not 4-3 that is the problem, and two years ago on this board people were so pissed we had zero talent for the 3-4 and got killed. If you want to be captain hindsight, instead of taking Lynch, we should have traded up one spot and taken Patrick Willis. The rest of this defense with a stud like him makes us immediately better, and our scheme is wrong. Wanny is getting out coached by Belicheck, Rex, and Harbaugh. We don't have an accurate QB, Chan never heard of this thing in the NFL called the FORWARD PASS, and as a result we continue to go third and long. Anyone else nervous every time our offense gets on the field as there is no confidence they can move the ball. The defense gets gased, and we are constantly in the wrong package or formation. Our db's are going to get better, and need to press better to take out the short passing lanes. We also need basically one LB for pressure on the QB. If we can't pass protect with 2lb, and 4 db's then we suck. This team will never get better until we are better coached, and have a better QB, along with an offensive weapon as a WR and/or TE, and at least 1 stud LB. The good news is we are from a talent perspective much better than 2010, and could demonstrate significant progress moving fwd. Even though he's making mistakes, I like Bradham. He'll get better with time. I know these are several conventional thoughts, and I don't post as often as many of you, I just don't think there is some new creative idea that'll is the answer. It's staring us right in the face. Lastly, say goodbye to Chan after this year. One more blowout and chan will fire Wanny to save his job. Then he'll get canned at the end of 2012. We'll never get a big name so we need some excellent coordinator who is willing to build a team and we'll go through another rebuild. This time though Nix I still believe is a good GM, wholly has made our scouting dept better, and thus will give us better ingredients in the soup. I'd love to be wrong and we kick the crap out of the Pats and Texans, not to mention beat the Cards tomorrow. I don't see it happening. Alright I'm done venting. Sorry guys, I just hate losing as much as all of you and my team is a punchline down here as I live in FL. I've had it with hearing about the usual suspects, I.e. Steelers, Ravens, Packers, ya da ya da. Really good post. I agree--exactly what you've just stated is staring us right in the face. I hope Chan and Wanny realize this, as well as Nix. I think Chan and Wannestedt might be allowing their egos to get in the way. I fully believe that this team has enough talent right now to compete for 9 or 10 wins with a solid coaching staff. However, ours appears to be leading us to 5 or 6. With the steps you've highlighted, I think this team is pretty damn good. But we'll have to do exactly what San Fran did as they dug themselves out of their hole--hire the right coach to take the team to the next level once we fill in a couple of these last pieces.
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