Marcellus Wiley talks Ralph

[BuffBill]

It's an old subject, but the first time I've heard Wiley talk about it.

 

On Wiley's radio show here in LA they were discussing the Tebow vs Sanchez debate and whether starting Tebow would mean the end of Rex Ryan in New York. Wiley was asked by John Ireland what he would do if he was Rex Ryan and Woody Johnson walked into his office and told him to start Tebow over Sanchez.

 

This is what Wiley said (transcribed poorly):

 

"Ralph Wilson did the same thing to us in Buffalo with Wade Philips. Wade Phillips walks into our locker room and says, 'Look, we're going to start Rob Johnson the last game of the season, in a meaningless game where we rest Doug Flutie.' We say 'fine.' Rob Johnson goes out there throws three touchdowns, three hundred yards and the owner says I want to see that money out there on the field in the playoffs.

 

Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command."

 

Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la

(In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark)

I have always knew it was Ralph behind maybe the worst lineup decision in Bills' history, yet he tried all he could to make sure Wade Phillips took the heat for it. Things like this are a big reason for the lack of success in this organization for 80% of it's history. No reason for Wiley to make anything up, he is one of the most intelligent former athletes you will ever hear talk.

 

Im just going to flat out say this. The Buffalo Bills were going to the Super Bowl that season. The D was AWESOME! The O rallied around Doug, the media loved the Bills and Doug! Thats just my 2 cents but I think the Bills were magic that year.

I agree, the Bills were the hottest team in the AFC if not the entire NFL going into the Music City Ripoff. People can criticize Flutie all they want, but no QB the Bills ever had, just seemed to find ways to win like he did. It is no coincidence that 100 years later, that is still the last playoff game the Bills have been in. Ralph's letting his wallet talk over the head coaches common sense put a jinx on this team that may never be lifted.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

Grego wanted to come here and he was highly respected, also Marvin Lewis and John Fox interviewed so all this talk about High profile guys not wanting to come here is BS.

 

The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership and location.

 

Also not having a Franchise QB is a big deterrent, look at Jeff Fisher He chose the Rams bc of Bradford whereas Miami didn't have Tannehill yet so he went to St. Louis. If We had a Bress or Rodgers we would have much better chance of Getting Great coaches in here.

 

 

 

And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on.

 

OMG. Look up the stats from that game! That's why I cannot for the life of me understand why Flutie vs Johnson was ever ever even a conversation let alone a QB controversy.

And to people who hate on Flutie b/c other fans or media made him out to be a hero or larger than life: get over it.

 

Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards and Zero touchdowns. But he apparently played a great game and Flutie woulda been worse.

Frickin' Delusional.

 

Go Bills!

 

[Peter]

OMG. Look up the stats from that game! That's why I cannot for the life of me understand why Flutie vs Johnson was ever ever even a conversation let alone a QB controversy.

And to people who hate on Flutie b/c other fans or media made him out to be a hero or larger than life: get over it.

 

Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards and Zero touchdowns. But he apparently played a great game and Flutie woulda been worse.

Frickin' Delusional.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

What were Air McNair's stats in that game?

 

I have always knew it was Ralph behind maybe the worst lineup decision in Bills' history, yet he tried all he could to make sure Wade Phillips took the heat for it. Things like this are a big reason for the lack of success in this organization for 80% of it's history. No reason for Wiley to make anything up, he is one of the most intelligent former athletes you will ever hear talk.

 

I agree, the Bills were the hottest team in the AFC if not the entire NFL going into the Music City Ripoff. People can criticize Flutie all they want, but no QB the Bills ever had, just seemed to find ways to win like he did. It is no coincidence that 100 years later, that is still the last playoff game the Bills have been in. Ralph's letting his wallet talk over the head coaches common sense put a jinx on this team that may never be lifted.

 

Flutie no doubt had some good games for the Bills, but the notion that he always found a way to win and would have against the Titans is belied by what happened at the end of the Dolphin playoff game.

[thewildrabbit]

I don't think that is true at all. Someone help me out here. That pick was down to Flutie or Bruce Smith. I assume Ralph had final say and okayed drafting Smith. Of course Bruce had a lackluster rookie season and was looking like a bust before he took the game seriously, and the rest is history. As for Flutie, he went to the USFL New Jersey Generals.

 

We bust on Ralph for meddling but not every pick he wanted was wrong.

 

PTR

It wasn't just the meddling in every day operations, draft picks, who to start, Etc. The man had Chuck Knox as his head coach, a version of Bill Belichick who understood every aspect of the game, offense and defense. Helped fill the stadium with his talking proud campaign. Was a shrewd talent evaluator and won despite a moron for a GM in Stew Barber, and Ralph let him simply walk away over money.

 

Ralph Wilson had the very best GM the NFL has seen over the last 40 years in Bill Polian. Building winning teams in Buffalo, Carolina and Indy, and Wilson found a way to get rid of him. John Butler was another top talent evaluator, and GM and again the main reason Butler left was for more money. Sure there were other reasons besides just the money with Knox and Butler, but mostly it came down to top dollar which Wilson didn't care to pay.

 

The bottom line here is that this owner mostly cares about filling his stadium and making a profit, winning is secondary and always has been.

[dave mcbride]

It's an old subject, but the first time I've heard Wiley talk about it.

 

On Wiley's radio show here in LA they were discussing the Tebow vs Sanchez debate and whether starting Tebow would mean the end of Rex Ryan in New York. Wiley was asked by John Ireland what he would do if he was Rex Ryan and Woody Johnson walked into his office and told him to start Tebow over Sanchez.

 

This is what Wiley said (transcribed poorly):

 

"Ralph Wilson did the same thing to us in Buffalo with Wade Philips. Wade Phillips walks into our locker room and says, 'Look, we're going to start Rob Johnson the last game of the season, in a meaningless game where we rest Doug Flutie.' We say 'fine.' Rob Johnson goes out there throws three touchdowns, three hundred yards and the owner says I want to see that money out there on the field in the playoffs.

 

Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command."

 

Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word.

 

 

http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la

(In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark)

 

Fantastic find. Thanks.

[dave mcbride]

I for one, was not a Flutie guy, but it was hard to argue with his record...but that season Flutie was playing dreadfully the last 6 or 7 games, and his arm appeared to be getting weaker by the week. It almost seemed like it was getting to the point that they were winning in spite of him, rather than because of him. I am not sure I would have made the move that Ralph (apparently) ordered right before the playoffs, but I won't say I wasn't kind of excited about it at the time.

 

If you look at the box scores from '99, Flutie was perfectly fine in his final 7 games. He threw 9 TDs against 5 INTs and had a 5-2 record. He had a 7.11 yards-per-attempt rate, a 58.8 percent completion rate, and a QB rating of 85.1 over that stretch. He was sacked 11 times in seven games (very good - that works out to 23 per season, in comparison to Johnson's average of about 60 per season). Flutie also rushed 39 times for 169 yards over that stretch.

 

Let's also not forget that Johnson was terrible against the Titans, who had a very bad pass defense (25th in yards given up and 27th in passing TDs given up) and a mediocre defense overall (15th out of 28 teams in yards and 17th in points). Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards that day and was sacked 6 times.

Edited October 10, 2012 by dave mcbride

[Peter]

If you look at the box scores from '99, Flutie was perfectly fine in his final 7 games. He threw 9 TDs against 5 INTs and had a 5-2 record. He had a 7.11 yards-per-attempt rate, a 58.8 percent completion rate, and a QB rating of 85.1 over that stretch. He was sacked 11 times in seven games (very good - that works out to 23 per season, in comparison to Johnson's average of about 60 per season). Flutie also rushed 39 times for 169 yards over that stretch.

 

Let's also not forget that Johnson was terrible against the Titans, who had a very bad pass defense (25th in yards given up and 27th in passing TDs given up) and a mediocre defense overall (15th out of 28 teams in yards and 17th in points). Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards that day and was sacked 6 times.

 

Let's not forget the game conditions. What were Air McNair's stats for that game? Let's also not forget about our depleted offensive line.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Peter

[Livinginthepast]

I don't remember this. Can you please refresh my memory?

 

http://www.billsdaily.com/articles/1999/nyg.html

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season".

 

Laughable? The Bills had to sell a certain number of season tickets in order to trigger a clause in the lease which would extend the lease. The tickets were not selling. Period.

 

Then Flutie took over, the Bills started winning and the tickets started selling like hot cakes.

 

How is that laughable?

 

Flutie no doubt had some good games for the Bills, but the notion that he always found a way to win and would have against the Titans is belied by what happened at the end of the Dolphin playoff game.

 

How many playoff games did Rob Johnson win in his career? How many teams did he lead to the playoffs?

 

Let's not forget the game conditions. What were Air McNair's stats for that game? Let's also not forget about our depleted offensive line.

 

Johnson played a mediocre game against a weak defense. The weather was not a factor in that game. There was no wind to speak of. You're just being an apologist for Johnson. There's no objectivity in your posts on this subject.

 

You think Johnson could have been "a pretty good quarterback for the Bills?" He wasn't good enough in Buffalo and he wasn't good enough when he was given a chance later on in his career with Jon Gruden. Johnson remains the most sacked quarterback per pass attempt in NFL history. His brain didn't function quickly enough to be a starting quarterback in the NFL.

 

Do you actually remember Rob Johnson as a player?

 

How many times would you say he ran out of bounds for a loss instead of throwing the ball away?

 

What would you say to the criticisms of Rob Johnson that he was so concerned about his stats that he would rather take a sack or run out of bounds for a sack than throw an incompletion?

 

Do you remember comments attributed to his offensive linemen that they were annoyed that he would take so many sacks and make them look bad?

 

To criticize Flutie is one thing… but to even try to construct some sort of scenario where Rob Johnson could have been a good NFL quarterback (as in your post 79 above) is ludicrous.

Edited October 11, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Adam]

Neither quarterback impressed me all that much.

[Bronc24]

One of the dumbest, most inexplicable decisions ever made.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

"Rob" was 10-22 for 131 yards so I don't know about "spot on."

 

Antowain Smith had 2 rushing TDs though.

 

there's more to it than stats, he threw some real tight throws in tight windows and made plays when needed, he won us that game but we all know how it ended.

 

100% correct.

 

No coach worth a damn would even consider Buffalo right now because of this, and that has been the case for a long time.

 

I'm making a concerted effort to take a step back until this franchise is sold and new ownership is in place. Nothing is going to change for the better until then. I hope that it is in Buffalo because I won't follow the team anyplace else.

 

RTB

 

true, I couldn't believe the knuckle heads on here saying they weren't Buffalo fans but Bills fans and would root for them where ever they moved.

 

So they must be saying they are fan of the franchise which just dumb bc why would you put yourself through all those years of losing when you can just apparently pick any franchise. I mean go with Pittsburgh; 6 SB, 8 appearances, always in the playoffs, well run what else can you ask for. I guess these guys like some S&M.

 

That was back when the Bills had a very highly respected GM/Prez in TD. Once TD was dumped for Marv, clowntime began, and only mediocrities have been interested in the job. Even Meathead had enough sense to walk away.

 

Proving my point that prospective coaches weren't afraid of Meddling Ralph, The problem know as I said is uncertainty in ownership.

[Kevin]

 

 

there's more to it than stats, he threw some real tight throws in tight windows and made plays when needed, he won us that game but we all know how it ended.

 

 

Fitz had thrown some passes in tight spots too. Come to think of it so has Edwards, Losman, Bledsoe, etc.

 

I remember fondly one evening getting pulled over in the City of Dublin California. It was 2000/2001 and I was pulled over for speeding. The Deputy that pulled me over let me off with a warning. Ya know why? Because that night the Bills were POUNDED by the 49ers 35-0. The Deputy felt bad for me because I had a Bills sticker on my bumper. Who was the QB? Rob Johnson.

 

Rob was a HORRIBLE QB. Horrible. Freaking horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

Not as bad as Billy Joe Hobert though.

[Thurman#1]

The problem is he gave "freedom" to Nix & Gailey and his staff of GT assistants. Enough said.

 

 

Nuff said? Not really.

 

It might well be that when we're not two seasons and five games from a rebuild this move might look a lot better.

 

We'll see.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Fitz had thrown some passes in tight spots too. Come to think of it so has Edwards, Losman, Bledsoe, etc.

 

I remember fondly one evening getting pulled over in the City of Dublin California. It was 2000/2001 and I was pulled over for speeding. The Deputy that pulled me over let me off with a warning. Ya know why? Because that night the Bills were POUNDED by the 49ers 35-0. The Deputy felt bad for me because I had a Bills sticker on my bumper. Who was the QB? Rob Johnson.

 

Rob was a HORRIBLE QB. Horrible. Freaking horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

Not as bad as Billy Joe Hobert though.

 

Ye but not in that game.

[Livinginthepast]

Fitz had thrown some passes in tight spots too. Come to think of it so has Edwards, Losman, Bledsoe, etc.

 

I remember fondly one evening getting pulled over in the City of Dublin California. It was 2000/2001 and I was pulled over for speeding. The Deputy that pulled me over let me off with a warning. Ya know why? Because that night the Bills were POUNDED by the 49ers 35-0. The Deputy felt bad for me because I had a Bills sticker on my bumper. Who was the QB? Rob Johnson.

 

Rob was a HORRIBLE QB. Horrible. Freaking horrible.

 

 

 

 

 

Not as bad as Billy Joe Hobert though.

 

Ah Billy Joe "I didnt bother to read the playbook, should I have?" Hobart. Now that guy was an athlete!!

[BuffBill]

It wasn't just the meddling in every day operations, draft picks, who to start, Etc. The man had Chuck Knox as his head coach, a version of Bill Belichick who understood every aspect of the game, offense and defense. Helped fill the stadium with his talking proud campaign. Was a shrewd talent evaluator and won despite a moron for a GM in Stew Barber, and Ralph let him simply walk away over money.

 

Ralph Wilson had the very best GM the NFL has seen over the last 40 years in Bill Polian. Building winning teams in Buffalo, Carolina and Indy, and Wilson found a way to get rid of him. John Butler was another top talent evaluator, and GM and again the main reason Butler left was for more money. Sure there were other reasons besides just the money with Knox and Butler, but mostly it came down to top dollar which Wilson didn't care to pay.

 

The bottom line here is that this owner mostly cares about filling his stadium and making a profit, winning is secondary and always has been.

I have been right up there in bashing Ralph as an owner, but on the 50 year anniversary DVD, Chuck Knox says that Ralph offered him a contract, he just thought he had done everything he could here and pretty much wanted to go back to the left coast. Now whether he was just saying nice things so he didn't send Ralph over the edge, or to make sure he didn't bet edited out of the DVD is a whole different issue?

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

What were Air McNair's stats in that game?

 

Seriously! That's the Friggin' "Logic" that kills me. Such a Big Johnson lover that you somehow have to say that McNair's bad stats for this game somehow prove ........I don't know what but would love to hear it. I guess, if I try to follow your logic: Johnson was good in this game because even though his stats were awful, he threw for less than 150 yards and zero touchdowns, he is still somehow a very good QB or had a very good game?

 

If you look at the box scores from '99, Flutie was perfectly fine in his final 7 games. He threw 9 TDs against 5 INTs and had a 5-2 record. He had a 7.11 yards-per-attempt rate, a 58.8 percent completion rate, and a QB rating of 85.1 over that stretch. He was sacked 11 times in seven games (very good - that works out to 23 per season, in comparison to Johnson's average of about 60 per season). Flutie also rushed 39 times for 169 yards over that stretch.

 

Let's also not forget that Johnson was terrible against the Titans, who had a very bad pass defense (25th in yards given up and 27th in passing TDs given up) and a mediocre defense overall (15th out of 28 teams in yards and 17th in points). Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards that day and was sacked 6 times.

 

This ^^^ "I hate when facts get in the way of my logic"

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Johnson played a mediocre game against a weak defense. The weather was not a factor in that game. There was no wind to speak of. You're just being an apologist for Johnson. There's no objectivity in your posts on this subject.

 

The same defense that went to the Super Bowl, that held the mighty St. Louis Rams offense to 23 points?? Weak defense indeed...

 

The support that Flutie gets to this day because people say "What if?" is ridiculous. He won ZERO games in the postseason, ZERO, for ANY team he started for. At least Rob Johnson, in his one shining moment, didn't turn the friggin ball over and had us winning with :14 left. Flutie would never do that for us, ever.

Edited October 11, 2012 by BmoreBills

[C.Biscuit97]

It's so sad that the 2012-2013 season has turned into remembering the Music City Forward LAteral. Please Bills get to 4-3 so we can stop torturing ourselves.