Biden Vs. Ryan "Game Day Thread" LOL

[dayman]

I didn't see the whole thing but...

 

Was frustrated with both sides while joe yelled "2014" over and over while Ryan stumbled trying to explain what should've been a simple "we want to get out as soon as possible, but think fluid decision making to promote safety trumps arbitrary deadlines." I think joes belligerence as soon as Ryan stumbled made it so he just couldn't get back on track for a good chunk there. Not pretty on either side. That awkwardness on foreign affairs vs the crazy joe figure will be the storyline

 

Once he did get back on track I'd give the last portion to Ryan. I think he landed more shots on Obama down the stretch. The talking points tomorrow will all be that middle section though.

 

I guess it comes down, on that point, to where you are at. I'd start bringing them home sooner if at all possible. I support the 2014 deadline b/c it's been 11 years...and I don't want to sit in Afghanistan forever. So as a "bring them home yesterday" person ... don't mind it. I think Joe did a good job articulating that it's time for them to do it, and Ryan just couldn't get this through his head...if we don't think they can do it...then what we'll do it forever? Don't think that's a very popular stance....

[OCinBuffalo]

You're making it seem like women will vote for someone just because he is being "disrespectful". That seems short-sighted and probably wrong.

No.

 

I'm making it seem like a guy....who needs at least a +15% showing with women, to even have a chance, shouldn't let his VP go out and act like a clown on national TV.

 

Of course every woman won't. Every woman is 100%. Obama needs the margin I've described. If he loses just 3% due to that behavior, he could lose the whole thing.

 

Hell of a risk to take...just to placate a bunch of snarky clods on the left whose vote is going to be cancelled out in places like Ohio anyway.

 

The only question that matters: does this behavior make undecideds vote for Obama? Did it help undecided women?

 

All the panels I'm watching say no. They didn't get much out of this.

[dayman]

Best line "I'll consider your letters any day Paul"

 

..but you all know my stimulus opinion

Edited October 12, 2012 by TheNewBills

[birdog1960]

i'll bet coal gets brought up again in the next debate. several stocks were up 15% today and the sector as a whole was killer...and it had nothing to do with obama or romney or the epa. it was about natural gas futures and chinese demand for steel ...imagine that! there's so much bullchit out of both sides but americans are gullible and reactionary. appearances matter. vp debates usually don't - dan quayle's ticket won. palin's didn't. they both sucked.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I guess it comes down, on that point, to where you are at. I'd start bringing them home sooner if at all possible. I support the 2014 deadline b/c it's been 11 years...and I don't want to sit in Afghanistan forever. So as a "bring them home yesterday" person ... don't mind it. I think Joe did a good job articulating that it's time for them to do it, and Ryan just couldn't get this through his head...if we don't think they can do it...then what we'll do it forever? Don't think that's a very popular stance....

 

I hear ya - that's why I was saying it should've been a softball for him to say "we agree we plan to do what we can to get them home ASAP but we are going to make key choices based on current data to prioritize safety not a timeline set 2 years prior - that could be slower, that could be faster but we will protect our men and get them home as fast as possible" but it seemed joe really got in his head.

 

Those bashing joe will see the images of him being belligerent and him yelling 2014 repeatedly as the essential image of where his night went wrong.

 

Those anti Ryan will say he flubbed foreign policy and couldn't even give a plan for our troops(though I'd say more so he flubbed how to deal with the aggressive vocal challenges as he wasn't trying to verbalize anything you or I couldn't - it just refused to come out of his mouth though)

 

Obviously a lot of content we could discuss but bill at the water cooler tomorrow likely hits one of those talking points first.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NoSaint

[dayman]

I hear ya - that's why I was saying it should've been a softball for him to say "we agree we plan to do what we can to get them home ASAP but we are going to make key choices based on current data to prioritize safety not a timeline set 2 years prior - that could be slower, that could be faster but we will protect our men and get them home as fast as possible" but it seemed joe really got in his head.

 

Those bashing joe will see the images of him being belligerent and him yelling 2014 repeatedly as the essential image of where his night went wrong.

 

Those anti Ryan will say he flubbed foreign policy (though I'd say more so he flubbed how to deal with the aggressive vocal challenges as he wasn't trying to verbalize anything you or I couldn't - it just refused to come out of his mouth though)

 

Obviously a lot of content we could discuss but bill at the water cooler tomorrow likely hits one of those talking points first.

 

I really can't express, given my views, how much I disliked every foreign policy statement that came out of Ryans mouth. It was a bloodbath. But that sort of talk still resonates with people...so there's room for the "Joe was rude" angle to get traction.

[B-Man]

Roundup from politico; (on Joe's facial expressions)

 

Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan were the two candidates on stage at Thursday’s vice presidential debate, but a third character emerged: Joe Biden’s laugh, which didn’t escape the notice of tweeting politicos. (And led, of course, to at least three satirical Twitter accounts: Laughing Joe Biden, Biden Smirk, and yet another Laughing Joe Biden.)

 

Weekly Standard’s Mark Hemingway: “Joe Biden’s laughing through talking about Iran sanctions?”

 

TIME’s Michael Scherer: “Not sure debate cameras have been light tested for Biden’s teeth. Best to watch with sunglasses.”

 

Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein: “Biden’s strategy seems to be to laugh at Ryan constantly. Will it work to infantalize Ryan, or backfire like Gore sighing?”

 

NBC’s David Gregory: “Biden’s smile is out of control.”

 

BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith: “So did Biden practice laughing at Ryan???”

 

ABC’s Rick Klein: “Biden on verge of breaking down in laughter when Ryan talks.”

 

Former Eric Cantor staffer Brad Dayspring: “Joe Biden needs to realize this isn’t a Senate Foreign Relations Hearing. His laughter and condescending attitude is a disaster.”

 

Townhall.com’s Guy Benson: “Will Biden laugh his ass off at the terrible economy, too?”

 

MSNBC’s S.E. Cupp: “Biden needs to laugh a little less through the Libya, Middle East, nuclear Iran segment.”

 

Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza: “Ok. I have decided. I find the Biden smile slightly unsettling.”

 

PBS’ Jeff Greenfield: “Biden has always had a smile that at times is really, really inappropriate.”

 

Washington Times’ Emily Miller: “Biden laughing when he disagrees with Ryan is so annoying. Like a child in time out.”

 

Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin: “Biden’s laughing is losing the debate- obnoxious”

 

Comedy Central’s Indecision: “If this keeps up much longer, Joe Biden’s going to sprain his laugh muscles.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82313.html#ixzz293NCHXuL

 

My best prediction is that independents won’t like Biden much, and that the pop-culture takeaway from the debate won’t have much at all to do with substance and will have everything to do with Joe Biden’s facial expressions.

 

Again and again people tell pollsters they don’t like disrespectful politics. It’s hard to believe they’ll like Biden. If I had to predict, I’d say the debate helps cheer Obama’s base but ends up making the ticket less likable, thus continuing to squander a key favorability advantage.

 

.

[DC Tom]

Yeah but what does it say when the VP looks more passionate than the president?

 

It says the VP looks more passionate than the President. Why should it even matter?

[dayman]

It says the VP looks more passionate than the President. Why should it even matter?

 

Joe Biden is more passionate than just about anybody in modern politics. I think that's known across the nation, for better or worse.

[DC Tom]

So, America, which man do you want a heartbeat away from the presidency in a crisis?

 

 

.

 

Between the two of them? Biden...in a crisis, he's going to react, and react strongly (maybe not correctly...but in a crisis, decisive and immediate usually trumps passive and correct).

[OCinBuffalo]

i'll bet coal gets brought up again in the next debate. several stocks were up 15% today and the sector as a whole was killer...and it had nothing to do with obama or romney or the epa. it was about natural gas futures and chinese demand for steel ...imagine that! there's so much bullchit out of both sides but americans are gullible and reactionary. appearances matter. vp debates usually don't - dan quayle's ticket won. palin's didn't. they both sucked.

So...you've just discovered the "Coal State Strategy"? Pretty much the reason that one pollster just left NC and VA, and called both for Romney?

 

Late....way late to the party birdog. That was the 7 months ago story. The coal state people have had the case made to them, consistently, since then.

 

Perhaps, if you didn't live in the MSNBC bubble, where bad things for Obama/Democrats simply don't exist?

 

So, yeah...you can bet coal will be brought up... I am sure Rachel Maddow will be shocked on election night, if this Coal State thing works, when PA is close, and OH, VA, NC, IA, MO, IN, and every other swing state Obama won, that is anywhere near Appalachia, is lost.

 

And you know what she'll say? "It's not the EPA F'ing with coal, and Romney speaking those people effectively! It's racism!" See, how pathetic is it, when there is nothing to be learned from these people at all?

[DC Tom]

Roundup from politico; (on Joe's facial expressions)

 

Vice President Joe Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan were the two candidates on stage at Thursday’s vice presidential debate, but a third character emerged: Joe Biden’s laugh, which didn’t escape the notice of tweeting politicos. (And led, of course, to at least three satirical Twitter accounts: Laughing Joe Biden, Biden Smirk, and yet another Laughing Joe Biden.)

 

Weekly Standard’s Mark Hemingway: “Joe Biden’s laughing through talking about Iran sanctions?”

 

TIME’s Michael Scherer: “Not sure debate cameras have been light tested for Biden’s teeth. Best to watch with sunglasses.”

 

Washington Examiner’s Philip Klein: “Biden’s strategy seems to be to laugh at Ryan constantly. Will it work to infantalize Ryan, or backfire like Gore sighing?”

 

 

NBC’s David Gregory: “Biden’s smile is out of control.”

 

BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith: “So did Biden practice laughing at Ryan???”

 

ABC’s Rick Klein: “Biden on verge of breaking down in laughter when Ryan talks.”

 

Former Eric Cantor staffer Brad Dayspring: “Joe Biden needs to realize this isn’t a Senate Foreign Relations Hearing. His laughter and condescending attitude is a disaster.”

 

Townhall.com’s Guy Benson: “Will Biden laugh his ass off at the terrible economy, too?”

 

MSNBC’s S.E. Cupp: “Biden needs to laugh a little less through the Libya, Middle East, nuclear Iran segment.”

 

Washington Post’s Chris Cillizza: “Ok. I have decided. I find the Biden smile slightly unsettling.”

 

PBS’ Jeff Greenfield: “Biden has always had a smile that at times is really, really inappropriate.”

 

 

Washington Times’ Emily Miller: “Biden laughing when he disagrees with Ryan is so annoying. Like a child in time out.”

 

Washington Post’s Jennifer Rubin: “Biden’s laughing is losing the debate- obnoxious”

 

Comedy Central’s Indecision: “If this keeps up much longer, Joe Biden’s going to sprain his laugh muscles.”

 

http://www.politico....l#ixzz293NCHXuL

 

 

My best prediction is that independents won’t like Biden much, and that the pop-culture takeaway from the debate won’t have much at all to do with substance and will have everything to do with Joe Biden’s facial expressions.

 

 

Again and again people tell pollsters they don’t like disrespectful politics. It’s hard to believe they’ll like Biden. If I had to predict, I’d say the debate helps cheer Obama’s base but ends up making the ticket less likable, thus continuing to squander a key favorability advantage.

 

 

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And I think they miss the point that Biden's laughing, annoying or not, served the purpose of patronizing Ryan and painting Biden as the experience veteran. It sent the message of "Nice try, kid, but welcome to the bigs." And did so very effectively.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I really can't express, given my views, how much I disliked every foreign policy statement that came out of Ryans mouth. It was a bloodbath. But that sort of talk still resonates with people...so there's room for the "Joe was rude" angle to get traction.

 

Love or hate his policy there's no denying he lost his footing in there. I keep using the term softballs but he looked totally off balance like he was trying to hit a huge knuckle ball. Like his policies or not, he couldn't get them out clearly while joe was laughing or interjecting in there and it made him sound much less competent- as if he had no policy at times, yet alone one you could dislike. He was so worried about giving the wrong sound bite that he missed easy ones.

Edited October 12, 2012 by NoSaint

[Jim in Anchorage]

Only caught a couple minutes in between commercial breaks and after the 1st half of the Steelers/Titans game ended. So I'm not as up to date on this as you guys, cuz um anybody watching a debate when there's an NFL game are losers

 

Biden looks like an angry old guy who blinks alot and Ryan is tripping over his own tongue

That was a great game, watched the whole thing. Figure I can get the it was all Bush's fault stuff anytime.

[DC Tom]

Love or hate his policy there's no denying he lost his footing in there. I keep using the term softballs but he looked totally off balance like he was trying to hit a huge knuckle ball. Like his policies or not, he couldn't get them out clearly while joe was laughing or interjecting in there and it made him sound much less competent- as if he had no policy at times, yet alone one you could dislike. He was so worried about giving the wrong sound bite that he missed easy ones.

 

Very accurate analysis...

[B-Man]

Ryan Wins CNN's Poll of Undecided Likely Voters, 48-44%

 

Also Wins on Likability, Ryan 53% Biden 43%

 

AP Poll: Ryan 51%, Biden 43%

 

 

“This debate will not strongly impact the race, but note that Ryan — the crazy extremist who wants to kill your grandparents — is viewed as likable by more than a majority of the public, whereas Biden has… the Democratic Client System base.”

 

The main trajectory of the race is that Romney and Ryan are capable, knowledgeable, pleasant men with serious ideas about the future of this country, better qualified for office than the men in office now, and Obama and Biden are still pushing musty old welfare plans from the late 1960's.

 

.

[NoSaint]

 

 

And I think they miss the point that Biden's laughing, annoying or not, served the purpose of patronizing Ryan and painting Biden as the experience veteran. It sent the message of "Nice try, kid, but welcome to the bigs." And did so very effectively.

 

Especially the couple of times it seemed to get him out of sorts. It was a good way to keep things tight, though we will see how it plays.

 

Ultimately I think the nights a wash in the long run.

[DC Tom]

Ultimately I think the nights a wash in the long run.

 

If only because it's the VP debate, which is only slightly less meaningful than some of the arguments here.

[dayman]

Love or hate his policy there's no denying he lost his footing in there. I keep using the term softballs but he looked totally off balance like he was trying to hit a huge knuckle ball. Like his policies or not, he couldn't get them out clearly while joe was laughing or interjecting in there and it made him sound much less competent- as if he had no policy at times, yet alone one you could dislike. He was so worried about giving the wrong sound bite that he missed easy ones.

 

On Afghanistan...he had his attack line cocked: We brought American troops home, and had less American troops there to fight.

 

Biden wasn't having it...yes....and we are going to continue to do so. There will be a larger proportion of Afghan troops doing stuff...and soon, it will be all them, b/c it's been 11 years and we're about done. Once strategy 1 failed...ignore that we're transitioning to Afghan troops...there was...nothing. He was going to sit there and complain our troops are coming home? You can't do that.

 

The truth is there is no real way to argue with ending wars, and not having new ones. Thank god.

[OCinBuffalo]

That's the only thing I can figure: an uninterrupted 45 minutes of Paul Ryan was deadly for them. Instead, they went for the tie, and told Biden to act out, distract, be a clown, etc.

 

The polls seem clear, a tie/slight win for Ryan. That's better than another 70-15% whipping. Makes sense.

 

Basically this all comes down to: a punt for the Democrats.

 

They may be "drinking Chardonnay at the kitchen island"...whatever the F that means...but that, however unreal, is better than getting curb-stomped again.