C.Biscuit97 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Which he isn't. He's a QB that can run. We can't provide the defense part but I think the Bills' line, when healthy, could keep him just as clean, and the running game is just as good if not better here with a healthy Spiller + FJax (which we didn't have if you'll recall Spiller's injury at the top of the season). Consider how many drives stalled with Fitz missing a wide-open man, and I see a playoff team that could have been here in Buffalo, if we had drafted Wilson and stuck with him. Definitely agree that we would all be feeling much better going into the offseason if Wilson was the QB. But I do think it's important to point out the surrounding cast around a QB. Wilson had a really good one. One of the reason I knew Sanchez was terrible right away was because he had maybe the best surrounding cast of any QB his 1st 2 seasons and he was still really bad. I do agree that our offense has some really good talent and a QB could do well right away, especially if our defense improves. It's one of the reason why I don't want to waste our time with a guy like Smith or Vick. Play a rookie right away and get him the experience.
stinky finger Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Which he isn't. He's a QB that can run. We can't provide the defense part but I think the Bills' line, when healthy, could keep him just as clean, and the running game is just as good if not better here with a healthy Spiller + FJax (which we didn't have if you'll recall Spiller's injury at the top of the season). Consider how many drives stalled with Fitz missing a wide-open man, and I see a playoff team that could have been here in Buffalo, if we had drafted Wilson and stuck with him. These. He's a throw first QB who just happens to be an effective runner. He's always looking downfield. To the second point, RW played well beyond his years. He was the reason for many of the Seahawk victories. This kid is real and here to stay.
Heels20X6 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Sorry. Everybody is included... Age is all our schtick! And Football is a young man's schtick! Oops... Sorry. High risk is a running QB. Are you on the Bills scout team? Because your ridiculous evaluation of Wilson's play style makes me wonder if you were in the war room telling Buddy to go with TJ Graham instead. "High risk" "Schtick" "odds against him for a long career"?!? WTF?!? He's essentially Drew Brees with the ability to run IF NEED BE. Drew's had a pretty long career, how is Wilson's career going to be any different?!?
Maury Ballstein Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 "high risk" and "schtick" seem like the wrong terms.. Pat White and Eric Crouch have schticks...................Russell Wilson's just a good qb who can run and pass well.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Are you on the Bills scout team? Because your ridiculous evaluation of Wilson's play style makes me wonder if you were in the war room telling Buddy to go with TJ Graham instead. "High risk" "Schtick" "odds against him for a long career"?!? WTF?!? He's essentially Drew Brees with the ability to run IF NEED BE. Drew's had a pretty long career, how is Wilson's career going to be any different?!? Shhh... Gonna blow my cover! ;-)
mattsox Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Um...You may very well end up being right...But seriously...The Kid has played 5 NFL Games...There is no way anything is fairly evident just yet... Agreed. Give him atleast 3-4 years before throwing him under the bus...
DDD Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 While Wilson is starting at QB for Seattle, it's fairly evident that he will never be an elite QB. To those of you who keep complaining that we didn't draft him: Graham has been very solid with his targets, struggling mainly with balls thrown far out of his reach. I don't think Fitz will win us games, but Wilson's limitations due to his height, combined with other problems in his game, mean that he will be a bottom 10 QB in the league. Is it impressive that he is starting as a rookie over a big-budget free agent signing in Flynn? Yes, but that doesn't mean that Wilson has what it takes to lead a team in a deep playoff run. I do lament the fact that we picked Dalton over Williams, though, especially given the fact that we hadn't made such a commitment to Fitzpatrick at that time. Please read the date of this post and then read through the thread. Quit replying to something that was said months ago and catch up with what is currently being said (thanks, Beerball) Graham sucked. Wilson took his team to the playoffs. NY 33 has zero credibility.
PaattMaann Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 dude cant even win a superbowl in his first year...hardly elite
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Wilson looked good yesterday.. Give him another year and i think Seattle is going to be scary.
Heitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 FWIW, since everyone loves to throw the Bills under the bus for not drafting Wilson, last week on Sirius John Madden said that he too would have passed on Wilson. Said he loved the kid's heart, etc., but Madden, looking at him, said he was too short. John isn't drafting any QB under 6'2". I still would loved to have seen him in a Bills uni, but drafting him wasn't a slam-dunk (obviously he was drafted in the third round, so we weren't the only ones with concerns).
Mr. WEO Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I'm calling BS here. All you are doing is repeating the conventional wisdom. What is your evidence for this statement? Please name some of the "99" short (under 6'0") QBs who were exceptional in college, were given a chance to play in the NFL, and failed due to their lack of height. OK, just name two. And you can leave out Colt McCoy. He's 6'1". Don't hold your breath.... The best part of this debate is the contention by some that Wilson's performance could not have been predicted. Yet look at his college performance--especially his 5 year---at Wisconsin. He was very good playing with very big men.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Don't hold your breath.... The best part of this debate is the contention by some that Wilson's performance could not have been predicted. Yet look at his college performance--especially his 5 year---at Wisconsin. He was very good playing with very big men. it wasnt shocking that hes played well, but i do think its fair to say it wasnt obviously going to happen either. for every person that said he was cant miss, i promise most have tacked that label on 5-10 other guys that missed terribly in the last decade alone. he was a very good propect but its near impossible to have predicted this performance accurately unless you were going far out on a limb. the limb didnt snap this time, but that doesnt mean there wasnt a good chance of having to pick yourself up off the ground to climb up again next year. Edited January 14, 2013 by NoSaint
KOKBILLS Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 FWIW, since everyone loves to throw the Bills under the bus for not drafting Wilson, last week on Sirius John Madden said that he too would have passed on Wilson. Said he loved the kid's heart, etc., but Madden, looking at him, said he was too short. John isn't drafting any QB under 6'2". I still would loved to have seen him in a Bills uni, but drafting him wasn't a slam-dunk (obviously he was drafted in the third round, so we weren't the only ones with concerns). Well...Understood...But you can turn that point around by simply saying it was only a 3rd Round Pick...We Drafted TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson...We did so even though our GM claims his height was not a deterrent whatsoever for The Bills...Furthermore, Buddy said they really liked Wilson a lot, enough to have him come to Buffalo prior to the Draft...He just valued the need for Graham more...That's right, he admitted it, Nix thought TJ Graham was a bigger need than Russell Wilson for The Bills...And this guy is supposedly one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL? Right... No matter how you spin it, the excuses come up lame concerning Wilson and the Bills...They blew it...Sure a lot of other teams blew it too...But the Bills are all I give a crap about...If Wilson had been a 1st Round Pick I could understand the excuses...But he wasn't...And Buddy is clearly an old school scout who is in WAY over his head as a GM...He has little understanding of how to build a roster...And he was blinded by Fitz's few good games, and Gailey's love for his Harvard QB...
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) FWIW, since everyone loves to throw the Bills under the bus for not drafting Wilson, last week on Sirius John Madden said that he too would have passed on Wilson. Said he loved the kid's heart, etc., but Madden, looking at him, said he was too short. John isn't drafting any QB under 6'2". I still would loved to have seen him in a Bills uni, but drafting him wasn't a slam-dunk (obviously he was drafted in the third round, so we weren't the only ones with concerns). i remember an interview with a former gm - dont remember who though, casserly maybe? - when mallett came out. they were discussing his height issue, albeit at the opposite end of the spectrum. This former GM spoke about how hard it is to evaluate guys way out on the ends of the spectrum as not only do they have to be as good as everyone else with their skill set, but they have to be better at everything else just to pull even. they used a simple formula of taking the two furthest outliers on that dimension to succeed - in this case obviously that would be the two shortest qbs that you would consider successful (i imagine this is somewhat limited or adjusted for era) and if the guy was shorter they would let someone else take the risk. i imagine if it were the case of a guy that they would otherwise rate in the first, i guess that hed come up on their board somewhere still but maybe a few rounds later. just an interesting anecdote to share. Edited January 14, 2013 by NoSaint
KOKBILLS Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Don't hold your breath.... The best part of this debate is the contention by some that Wilson's performance could not have been predicted. Yet look at his college performance--especially his 5 year---at Wisconsin. He was very good playing with very big men. I think I heard Mike Schopp say that since Football Outsiders has been doing their statistical analysis of QB's coming into the NFL, Wilson had the highest grade they ever gave out...Something like that...The kid was very, very good in College... Extremely impressive...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Well...Understood...But you can turn that point around by simply saying it was only a 3rd Round Pick...We Drafted TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson...We did so even though our GM claims his height was not a deterrent whatsoever for The Bills...Furthermore, Buddy said they really liked Wilson a lot, enough to have him come to Buffalo prior to the Draft...He just valued the need for Graham more...That's right, he admitted it, Nix thought TJ Graham was a bigger need than Russell Wilson for The Bills...And this guy is supposedly one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL? Right... No matter how you spin it, the excuses come up lame concerning Wilson and the Bills...They blew it...Sure a lot of other teams blew it too...But the Bills are all I give a crap about...If Wilson had been a 1st Round Pick I could understand the excuses...But he wasn't...And Buddy is clearly an old school scout who is in WAY over his head as a GM...He has little understanding of how to build a roster...And he was blinded by Fitz's few good games, and Gailey's love for his Harvard QB... Very well thought out response indeed. This is exactly why I wanted Buddy Nix out of here with Chan and the antiquated way of doing things. F5 time.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Well...Understood...But you can turn that point around by simply saying it was only a 3rd Round Pick...We Drafted TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson...We did so even though our GM claims his height was not a deterrent whatsoever for The Bills...Furthermore, Buddy said they really liked Wilson a lot, enough to have him come to Buffalo prior to the Draft...He just valued the need for Graham more...That's right, he admitted it, Nix thought TJ Graham was a bigger need than Russell Wilson for The Bills...And this guy is supposedly one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL? Right... No matter how you spin it, the excuses come up lame concerning Wilson and the Bills...They blew it...Sure a lot of other teams blew it too...But the Bills are all I give a crap about...If Wilson had been a 1st Round Pick I could understand the excuses...But he wasn't...And Buddy is clearly an old school scout who is in WAY over his head as a GM...He has little understanding of how to build a roster...And he was blinded by Fitz's few good games, and Gailey's love for his Harvard QB... what did you expect nix to say? the choice he made said everything. he had graham rated higher. simple as that. hes seen hundreds of mid round qbs never amount to a franchise guy and maybe a couple actually make it. wilson, while disappointing, is a bit of an exception and i wouldnt say it totally seals nixs ability as "failure" even if he clearly missed this one. sound philosophies can miss terribly.
KOKBILLS Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) what did you expect nix to say? the choice he made said everything. he had graham rated higher. simple as that. hes seen hundreds of mid round qbs never amount to a franchise guy and maybe a couple actually make it. wilson, while disappointing, is a bit of an exception and i wouldnt say it totally seals nixs ability as "failure" even if he clearly missed this one. sound philosophies can miss terribly. How about Aaron Wilson over Dalton, and Kaepernick? Is that enough when partnered with Graham over Wilson? Come on...I'm looking to roast Buddy here... Seriously though, after watching Wilson and Kaepernick this weekend it made me pretty ill towards Nix...Again...I just don't like the guy as a GM...Whatsoever... /endrant Edited January 14, 2013 by KOKBILLS
Maury Ballstein Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) green light green light..............could be set at qb with Kamar Aiken, Marcus Easley, or Naaaman R playing the role of TJ Graham with Wilson or Kaep in tow..........roast on.........Buddy Nix has dropped the ball. and we are letting him pull the strings in the draft again? just keep him away from the QB pick please. Edited January 14, 2013 by Ryan L Billz
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