SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 If Wilson was three inches taller, he would have been a high first rounder. Probably top 5. Maybe 1st overall in a year without Luck and Griffin. And yet everybody passed on him twice over those three inches. There aren't enough organizations who ask "But can he play football?" above all other questions.
#34fan Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) Yeah, that Wilson kid is never going to make it. So glad we drafted that WR over him ... what is his name again? It's TJ Graham. -And FYI, he'd be awesome if it weren't for the fact that he can't catch anything... At all... Ever. Edited January 13, 2013 by #34fan
Kelly the Dog Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 If Wilson was three inches taller, he would have been a high first rounder. Probably top 5. Maybe 1st overall in a year without Luck and Griffin. And yet everybody passed on him twice over those three inches. There aren't enough organizations who ask "But can he play football?" above all other questions. He's a fluke. 99 out of 100 5'11" QBs, if not 999 out of 1000 5'11" QBs, would have that height affect their play negatively. Everyone, including the Seahawks, thought it would. Everyone knew he was a stud except his height. It was no secret whatsoever. The only question was HOW MUCH his height would it negatively affect him. Some scouts and GMs thought more than others, which is why some guys thought he had a 3rd round grade, some a 4th and some even lower. There is no one else like him. It turned out it didnt affect him at all. Even the Seahawks were wrong about that.
#34fan Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Not trying to brag, but I did say I thought Wilson was a top ten pick back in March!!! http://forums.twobil...e/#entry2425357 I was off on where Wilson would go tho, mainly bc of all the other stuff on the internet. This is the page I based my Mock off of http://www.profootba...t-value-chart-7 To be fair #34fan was spot on also!!! http://forums.twobil...20#entry2421421 Holla back at ya, Pete!
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 He's a fluke. 99 out of 100 5'11" QBs, if not 999 out of 1000 5'11" QBs, would have that height affect their play negatively. Everyone, including the Seahawks, thought it would. Everyone knew he was a stud except his height. It was no secret whatsoever. The only question was HOW MUCH his height would it negatively affect him. Some scouts and GMs thought more than others, which is why some guys thought he had a 3rd round grade, some a 4th and some even lower. There is no one else like him. It turned out it didnt affect him at all. Even the Seahawks were wrong about that. The same was largely thought of Brees, if I remember correctly. In any case, I more than see your point, but aren't scouts and GMs paid to recognize those "no one else like him" guys?
Kelly the Dog Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 The same was largely thought of Brees, if I remember correctly. In any case, I more than see your point, but aren't scouts and GMs paid to recognize those "no one else like him" guys? People usually use Brees as an example of a 2nd round pick. Actually, there were only 30 teams in the league then. He was chosen 31st. So I always consider him to be a #1 pick and not a #2 pick. That said, and there is no way of knowing this, but I strongly, strongly think that if Drew Brees were coming out today, he wouldn't be chosen until the 3rd round like Russell Wilson was. In the 12 or so years since Brees was drafted, the players have gotten significantly bigger it seems. especially CBs and Safeties and LBs. Height for a QB is much more important, or much bigger a hindrance if you're smaller. 6'2" used to be pretty big for a QB. Now it's considered just tall enough.
#34fan Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 What's important going forward is for Bills scouts to recognize that there are NO WILSONS, LUCKS, OR RGII's in the '13 draft. -There ain't even a Kirk Cousins, or a Tanneyhill there at #8. -It's a total wasteland. Please, Please, DO NOT REACH FOR QB WITH A HIGH PICK!
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 People usually use Brees as an example of a 2nd round pick. Actually, there were only 30 teams in the league then. He was chosen 31st. So I always consider him to be a #1 pick and not a #2 pick. That said, and there is no way of knowing this, but I strongly, strongly think that if Drew Brees were coming out today, he wouldn't be chosen until the 3rd round like Russell Wilson was. In the 12 or so years since Brees was drafted, the players have gotten significantly bigger it seems. especially CBs and Safeties and LBs. Height for a QB is much more important, or much bigger a hindrance if you're smaller. 6'2" used to be pretty big for a QB. Now it's considered just tall enough. Hmm. Interesting. It just seems to me that every major sport is riddled with guys who seemingly don't fulfill physical requirements, yet succeed. It makes me wonder how many others are never given the chance. Heck, look at Welker.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 In theory yes, but how would you like to be the GM who convinces his owner to take a shot on this 5'-11" guy, they use a first round pick and he's a flop. More than likely there are a number of people out there right now picked over prior years. Russell has looked great, but I'm still not convinced within a couple of years defense figure this whole read option thing and guys like that will look like a 3rd round pick. There's too many of this style QB playing now that teams can't ignore figuring out a better way to stop it. Could be the answer is you take cheap shots at him until he goes down and doesn't get up if they can't come up with a better way to stop them. In any case, I more than see your point, but aren't scouts and GMs paid to recognize those "no one else like him" guys?
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 In theory yes, but how would you like to be the GM who convinces his owner to take a shot on this 5'-11" guy, they use a first round pick and he's a flop. More than likely there are a number of people out there right now picked over prior years. Russell has looked great, but I'm still not convinced within a couple of years defense figure this whole read option thing and guys like that will look like a 3rd round pick. There's too many of this style QB playing now that teams can't ignore figuring out a better way to stop it. Could be the answer is you take cheap shots at him until he goes down and doesn't get up if they can't come up with a better way to stop them. Take away the read option that Seattle runs and Wilson still looks like an excellent QB. He reads defenses very well, has a very good arm, manipulates coverage, and he's a leader. The guy is going to be very good to great for a long time. Believe your lying eyes.
Punch Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 People usually use Brees as an example of a 2nd round pick. Actually, there were only 30 teams in the league then. He was chosen 31st. So I always consider him to be a #1 pick and not a #2 pick. That said, and there is no way of knowing this, but I strongly, strongly think that if Drew Brees were coming out today, he wouldn't be chosen until the 3rd round like Russell Wilson was. In the 12 or so years since Brees was drafted, the players have gotten significantly bigger it seems. especially CBs and Safeties and LBs. Height for a QB is much more important, or much bigger a hindrance if you're smaller. 6'2" used to be pretty big for a QB. Now it's considered just tall enough. One detail I don't recall reading/hearing much about with regards to Wilson predraft (maybe it was prevalent, I didn't exactly read a ton about him) was his wingspan, hand size and high point of delivery--- these are all factors which essentially negate the height disadvantage. Although that wouldn't necessarily serve as a surefire predictor in evaluating QB prospects with less than ideal height.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Take away the read option that Seattle runs and Wilson still looks like an excellent QB. He reads defenses very well, has a very good arm, manipulates coverage, and he's a leader. The guy is going to be very good to great for a long time. Believe your lying eyes. He's looked much better the last 6-8 weeks when they totally opened up the offense. Bevel added pistol, read option, etc.... Down the stretch. Defenses are bound to catch up some but it seems he still has a lot of positives going for him.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) He's looked much better the last 6-8 weeks when they totally opened up the offense. Bevel added pistol, read option, etc.... Down the stretch. Defenses are bound to catch up some but it seems he still has a lot of positives going for him. Forgot to mention his accuracy, footwork, and work ethic. He'll also get better with experience. Edited January 14, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Forgot to mention his accuracy, footwork, and work ethic. He'll also get better with experience. I've mentioned all 3 more than a few times. That and arm strength and avoiding hits. He's got real positives. I was just noting that they changed the offense quite a bit midseason
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I've mentioned all 3 more than a few times. That and arm strength and avoiding hits. He's got real positives. I was just noting that they changed the offense quite a bit midseason You're correct, he blossomed once he was unshackled by the coaching staff and he most certainly rewarded their trust.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 In theory yes, but how would you like to be the GM who convinces his owner to take a shot on this 5'-11" guy, they use a first round pick and he's a flop. More than likely there are a number of people out there right now picked over prior years. Russell has looked great, but I'm still not convinced within a couple of years defense figure this whole read option thing and guys like that will look like a 3rd round pick. There's too many of this style QB playing now that teams can't ignore figuring out a better way to stop it. Could be the answer is you take cheap shots at him until he goes down and doesn't get up if they can't come up with a better way to stop them. I believe that risk avoidance is a big factor. Part of the problem is that fans demand that coaches and GMs get fired whenever mistakes are made.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 One detail I don't recall reading/hearing much about with regards to Wilson predraft (maybe it was prevalent, I didn't exactly read a ton about him) was his wingspan, hand size and high point of delivery--- these are all factors which essentially negate the height disadvantage. Although that wouldn't necessarily serve as a surefire predictor in evaluating QB prospects with less than ideal height. That stuff was definitely there, and a few of the reasons I was so high on him myself, but all it did was tell myself, and GMs I would imagine, that this guy is different than OTHER 5'11" QBs who had zero chance in this league, and not what they thought Wilson might be, which was a chance, or at least a really good back-up but not a franchise QB. Everything else about him was off the charts, which is why he is a fluke. NFL people just thought that his height would be a hindrance, despite all the stuff in college that he did, and that was physical (like his long wingspan, delivery and huge hands), which made it a non factor at that college level.
Punch Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 That stuff was definitely there, and a few of the reasons I was so high on him myself, but all it did was tell myself, and GMs I would imagine, that this guy is different than OTHER 5'11" QBs who had zero chance in this league, and not what they thought Wilson might be, which was a chance, or at least a really good back-up but not a franchise QB. Everything else about him was off the charts, which is why he is a fluke. NFL people just thought that his height would be a hindrance, despite all the stuff in college that he did, and that was physical (like his long wingspan, delivery and huge hands), which made it a non factor at that college level. It's incredible that so many NFL decision makers are so beholden to ancient bias and rhetoric. It's no wonder the same franchises fail, year after year--- yes, including our Bills.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 It's incredible that so many NFL decision makers are so beholden to ancient bias and rhetoric. It's no wonder the same franchises fail, year after year--- yes, including our Bills. Well, there's a certain amount of betting the odds here. The deck was a bit stacked against Wilson even with the pros. It's hard the pull the trigger on anyone with phrases like shortest, smallest, slowest, or any other similar even if they are off the charts good elsewhere
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 It's incredible that so many NFL decision makers are so beholden to ancient bias and rhetoric. It's no wonder the same franchises fail, year after year--- yes, including our Bills. The thing is, I was myself. I am completely biased against small QBs, and didn't want the Bills to go near any of the Colt McCoy types. But once I saw Russell Wilson play, and then started really following him, he blew me away. I loved the guy and saw all the stuff that he did that made his height a non factor in college. I really wanted the Bills to draft him. But I didn't think they should take him in the first or second round. It was a HUGE risk. And I couldn't find anything I didn't like about him. He was amazing. I'm sure that is pretty much what everything, including the Seahawks, felt. If ANYONE, even the Packers or Patriots with great QBs, thought his height wouldn't be a factor, they would have taken him in the first or second round. He was that good and that highly regarded.
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