Billshank Redemption Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Well...Understood...But you can turn that point around by simply saying it was only a 3rd Round Pick...We Drafted TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson...We did so even though our GM claims his height was not a deterrent whatsoever for The Bills...Furthermore, Buddy said they really liked Wilson a lot, enough to have him come to Buffalo prior to the Draft...He just valued the need for Graham more...That's right, he admitted it, Nix thought TJ Graham was a bigger need than Russell Wilson for The Bills...And this guy is supposedly one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL? Right... No matter how you spin it, the excuses come up lame concerning Wilson and the Bills...They blew it...Sure a lot of other teams blew it too...But the Bills are all I give a crap about...If Wilson had been a 1st Round Pick I could understand the excuses...But he wasn't...And Buddy is clearly an old school scout who is in WAY over his head as a GM...He has little understanding of how to build a roster...And he was blinded by Fitz's few good games, and Gailey's love for his Harvard QB... Great post and its very true. The problem with most gms and coaches is they are more worried about their immediate future then the long term look of the franchise. Chan put all his chips on Fitz when there was no reason too and he is out of a job for it. I believe that we have a playoff caliber team but we are lacking the qb. Russell Wilson is an excellent (as a rookie) qb. No doubts about it, he tore us to shreds and continually tore other defenses to shreds too. More so he doesn't fret under pressure and crumble something that its a very rare trait. I also disagree with the person who stated that he is a high risk because hes a running qb. He is a thrower first he almost always progresses through all of his reads before he thinks about tucking it and uses his legs to buy him out of situations. I would kill to have Wilson, Luck, or RGIII (assuming he can come back healthy which isnt certain). Oh well atleast Tannehill is the worst out of the bunch.
mannc Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Don't hold your breath.... The best part of this debate is the contention by some that Wilson's performance could not have been predicted. Yet look at his college performance--especially his 5 year---at Wisconsin. He was very good playing with very big men. And yet Tannehill, who had mediocre numbers at A&M, went in the top ten. How could a professional talent evaluator look at those two prospects and decide Tannehill should go at no. 9 overall, and that Wilson should last to Round 3? I'm not saying Tannehill sucks, by the way. I'm just pointing out the silliness of those who say Wilson was a longshot or, even worse, a fluke.
prissythecat Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 And yet Tannehill, who had mediocre numbers at A&M, went in the top ten. How could a professional talent evaluator look at those two prospects and decide Tannehill should go at no. 9 overall, and that Wilson should last to Round 3? I'm not saying Tannehill sucks, by the way. I'm just pointing out the silliness of those who say Wilson was a longshot or, even worse, a fluke. Tannehill also put up mediocre numbers in his rookie season with Miami. So the jury is still out on him .
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 There are times when players who lack ideal speed or size succeed, but more often then not they fail. There have not been many great QBs who are Wilson's height, so I get why he lasted until the 3rd round. A 3rd pick in not much of a sacrafice. I think reason the Seahawks ended up with an elite QB is due to the amount of times they attempted to bring in a QB. Look at the guys the brought in. Whitehurst, Flynn, Jackson, and the Wilson. They kept at it unitl they ended up with a good QB on the roster.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Tannehill also put up mediocre numbers in his rookie season with Miami. So the jury is still out on him . Tanneyhill was a first round pick based on his "measureables" despite the fact that he had limited experience and production as a College QB. Meanwhile, Wilson's experience and production were somewhat overlooked and he was downgraded and drafted lower based on his "measureables". It really doesn't make any sense if you think about it. Edited January 14, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 :w00t: Wilson is ALREADY elite !! Were you watching ?
Bronc24 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Well...Understood...But you can turn that point around by simply saying it was only a 3rd Round Pick...We Drafted TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson...We did so even though our GM claims his height was not a deterrent whatsoever for The Bills...Furthermore, Buddy said they really liked Wilson a lot, enough to have him come to Buffalo prior to the Draft...He just valued the need for Graham more...That's right, he admitted it, Nix thought TJ Graham was a bigger need than Russell Wilson for The Bills...And this guy is supposedly one of the best talent evaluators in the NFL? Right... No matter how you spin it, the excuses come up lame concerning Wilson and the Bills...They blew it...Sure a lot of other teams blew it too...But the Bills are all I give a crap about...If Wilson had been a 1st Round Pick I could understand the excuses...But he wasn't...And Buddy is clearly an old school scout who is in WAY over his head as a GM...He has little understanding of how to build a roster...And he was blinded by Fitz's few good games, and Gailey's love for his Harvard QB... Could not agree more. I hate when posters say, "Thirty-one other teams got it wrong too!" So what? That does not absolve our FO for getting it wrong. It's a lame excuse as to why and how the Bills have completely botched the most important position in football. I hope to God they somehow get it right.
JohnC Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 what did you expect nix to say? the choice he made said everything. he had graham rated higher. simple as that. hes seen hundreds of mid round qbs never amount to a franchise guy and maybe a couple actually make it. wilson, while disappointing, is a bit of an exception and i wouldnt say it totally seals nixs ability as "failure" even if he clearly missed this one. sound philosophies can miss terribly. I don't know what metric you are using in judging success and failure. There is a simple method to judge the success of any GM: the record. Nix's three year cumulative record is 16-32. His team's record against AFC opponents is 4-14. His record against teams in the playoffs is 2-18, a 10% success rate. Against two playoff teams this year, 49ers and Seahawks, the cumulative score against his team was 95-20. During his three year tenure the qbs he had on the roster are Fitz, Thigpen, T. Jackson, Vince Young and Levi Brown. That's a collection that some people will laugh at and others will cry at. To put things in perspective the Jauron/Levy era outshined the country boy era of Nix. If Nix has the last say on the draft selections then Brandon should be charged with malfeaIsance. By any reasonable measure Nix is an abject failure on a variety of levels. Nix was the standard ludicrous hire by a clueless owner. He clearly wasn't suited for the GM job. No one can fairly say that he wasn't given a fair amount of time to alter the downward trajectory of the franchise he inherited. He was simply a continuation of the rancid mediocrity that preceded him. One way of changing the culture of a losing franchise is to hold people accountable for their performances. Brandon made a mistake both substatively and symbolicly when he didn't summarily fire Nix and demonstrate to the fanbase that under his stewardship things are going to be dramatically different.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I don't know what metric you are using in judging success and failure. There is a simple method to judge the success of any GM: the record. Nix's three year cumulative record is 16-32. His team's record against AFC opponents is 4-14. His record against teams in the playoffs is 2-18, a 10% success rate. Against two playoff teams this year, 49ers and Seahawks, the cumulative score against his team was 95-20. During his three year tenure the qbs he had on the roster are Fitz, Thigpen, T. Jackson, Vince Young and Levi Brown. That's a collection that some people will laugh at and others will cry at. To put things in perspective the Jauron/Levy era outshined the country boy era of Nix. If Nix has the last say on the draft selections then Brandon should be charged with malfeaIsance. By any reasonable measure Nix is an abject failure on a variety of levels. Nix was the standard ludicrous hire by a clueless owner. He clearly wasn't suited for the GM job. No one can fairly say that he wasn't given a fair amount of time to alter the downward trajectory of the franchise he inherited. He was simply a continuation of the rancid mediocrity that preceded him. One way of changing the culture of a losing franchise is to hold people accountable for their performances. Brandon made a mistake both substatively and symbolicly when he didn't summarily fire Nix and demonstrate to the fanbase that under his stewardship things are going to be dramatically different. Amen.
mannc Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Things can change, obviously, but when you have certain physical limitations, you're not going to be an elite quarterback in the NFL. Obviously.
Bronc24 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I don't know what metric you are using in judging success and failure. There is a simple method to judge the success of any GM: the record. Nix's three year cumulative record is 16-32. His team's record against AFC opponents is 4-14. His record against teams in the playoffs is 2-18, a 10% success rate. Against two playoff teams this year, 49ers and Seahawks, the cumulative score against his team was 95-20. During his three year tenure the qbs he had on the roster are Fitz, Thigpen, T. Jackson, Vince Young and Levi Brown. That's a collection that some people will laugh at and others will cry at. To put things in perspective the Jauron/Levy era outshined the country boy era of Nix. If Nix has the last say on the draft selections then Brandon should be charged with malfeaIsance. By any reasonable measure Nix is an abject failure on a variety of levels. Nix was the standard ludicrous hire by a clueless owner. He clearly wasn't suited for the GM job. No one can fairly say that he wasn't given a fair amount of time to alter the downward trajectory of the franchise he inherited. He was simply a continuation of the rancid mediocrity that preceded him. One way of changing the culture of a losing franchise is to hold people accountable for their performances. Brandon made a mistake both substatively and symbolicly when he didn't summarily fire Nix and demonstrate to the fanbase that under his stewardship things are going to be dramatically different. This x 1,000,000,000
Heitz Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Could not agree more. I hate when posters say, "Thirty-one other teams got it wrong too!" So what? That does not absolve our FO for getting it wrong. It's a lame excuse as to why and how the Bills have completely botched the most important position in football. I hope to God they somehow get it right. For the record I wasn't saying that the Bills FO should be absolved for not drafting Wilson, but the fact that every other team passed on him at least twice should say something about the perceived risk of Wilson by *every* team in the NFL. In hindsight it's easy to say "the Bills should have drafted him", but at the time there were clearly some concerns with the guys height and playing style. So, IMO, saying "31 other teams passed" isn't an excuse for the Bills passing on Wilson, but it does at least provides some context on the desirability of Wilson as a QB. If every GM thought he could take their team to the Playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl someone would have jumped on him!
Rob's House Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 For the record I wasn't saying that the Bills FO should be absolved for not drafting Wilson, but the fact that every other team passed on him at least twice should say something about the perceived risk of Wilson by *every* team in the NFL. In hindsight it's easy to say "the Bills should have drafted him", but at the time there were clearly some concerns with the guys height and playing style. So, IMO, saying "31 other teams passed" isn't an excuse for the Bills passing on Wilson, but it does at least provides some context on the desirability of Wilson as a QB. If every GM thought he could take their team to the Playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl someone would have jumped on him! Not necessarily. Most teams already have their established QB. Of teams that didn't, 4 took other QBs in the 1st. Only a small handful of QB needy teams passed on him.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 For the record I wasn't saying that the Bills FO should be absolved for not drafting Wilson, but the fact that every other team passed on him at least twice should say something about the perceived risk of Wilson by *every* team in the NFL. In hindsight it's easy to say "the Bills should have drafted him", but at the time there were clearly some concerns with the guys height and playing style. So, IMO, saying "31 other teams passed" isn't an excuse for the Bills passing on Wilson, but it does at least provides some context on the desirability of Wilson as a QB. If every GM thought he could take their team to the Playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl someone would have jumped on him! its a valid point to bring up, and anyone throwing it out the window is being unfair. even the seahawks passed on their franchise multiple times. if anyone in the nfl thought it to be a clear and obvious decision it wouldve been made much earlier. you like to have your guys be the ones that see those values, but.... it happens. its incredibly disappointing when it does, but if seattle really 100% thought that they were picking up what they got, they should fire their gm for not doing it sooner and risking missing out. i wouldve been happy as anyone with him in the third, and its a shame we didnt get him but theres a bit of irrational anger (fairly) mixed into a lot of the thread. Not necessarily. Most teams already have their established QB. Of teams that didn't, 4 took other QBs in the 1st. Only a small handful of QB needy teams passed on him. 100% of teams could have used the asset he turned out to be. easily. at the very least he couldve been a solid, cheap, backup until he got traded for a ransom.
Punch Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Sam Monson @PFF_Sam Legend RT @willbrinson: RT @johnpboyle: QB Russell Wilson wasn't in the locker room for cleanout b/c he was watching film. Seriously.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Sam Monson @PFF_Sam Legend RT @willbrinson: RT @johnpboyle: QB Russell Wilson wasn't in the locker room for cleanout b/c he was watching film. Seriously. i have no concept of this - is it that far out of the ordinary for guys to watch the film the day after the playoff loss, or does everyone 100% clear out that quickly? not even a comment about wilson here, but it seems like itd be ideal to spend a couple hours the day after atleast doing a rough run through before heading out. sometimes it does surprise me how far a typical player will go in some regards, and not others. more power to wilson on this one. Edited January 14, 2013 by NoSaint
mannc Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Not necessarily. Most teams already have their established QB. Of teams that didn't, 4 took other QBs in the 1st. Only a small handful of QB needy teams passed on him. True, and the GM's of those teams (Jacksonville & KC) have since been fired. As inexcusable as Buddy's passing on Wilson was, Jacksonville selected a PUNTER with the pick just before Seattle took Wilson.
Punch Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 i have no concept of this - is it that far out of the ordinary for guys to watch the film the day after the playoff loss, or does everyone 100% clear out that quickly? not even a comment about wilson here, but it seems like itd be ideal to spend a couple hours the day after atleast doing a rough run through before heading out. sometimes it does surprise me how far a typical player will go in some regards, and not others. more power to wilson on this one. Honestly, I don't know. I can only say I've never heard a comment like this before on a cleanout day, and it was considered out of the ordinary enough that a Seahawks beat reporter mentioned it as such. Perhaps it isn't that strange, though.
mannc Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 its a valid point to bring up, and anyone throwing it out the window is being unfair. even the seahawks passed on their franchise multiple times. if anyone in the nfl thought it to be a clear and obvious decision it wouldve been made much earlier. you like to have your guys be the ones that see those values, but.... it happens. its incredibly disappointing when it does, but if seattle really 100% thought that they were picking up what they got, they should fire their gm for not doing it sooner and risking missing out. Except that Seattle had just shelled out big $$ for a free agent QB and were presumably set at the position. The Bills, on the other hand, were (or should have been) desperate for a young QB to groom.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Name every single franchise QB, or even very good QB 5'11" and under (he's 5'10 5/8) in the NFL in the last 30 years. To say GMs should have known is just rubbish.
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