The difference between Jim Harbaugh and Chan Gailey

[KollegeStudnet]

What's the difference between a Buffalo Bill and a dollar bill?

 

You get 4 quarters out of a dollar bill

 

The truth hurts

[K-9]

The truth hurts

 

And sometimes the truth is as stupid as a 40 year old joke.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[benderbender]

It appears to me that the teams problem is way deeper then players.

 

Get out the popcorn guys this can't happen much longer. This is suppose to be a playoff team.

 

Don't care how good the 49ers are, buffalo is suppose to be in every game and its just not happening.

And what else House? It's not Lupus?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yet he immediately took a team to 13-3 that went 6-10 the year before, and struggled to get to 8 wins in prior two seasons. But it's not about the coaching.

 

Everybody knows that a team, with no talent to start with, has to backslide a few years.

[Tcali]

 

 

Yeah, he turned down the Fins' job as well. IMO, he is the best coach in football for being able to win with Alex Smith. That said, I have a hard time believing they are a championship team with Smith leading them. It's pretty much my only hope for Sunday.

Its betw him and belicek...Harbaugh is among the greatest coaches already IMO opinion w walsh,belicek,lombardi

[thewildrabbit]

To the bolded, we are in total agreement. Same with Barber. He was not qualified and treated people like an ass.

 

As to the rest, I was there as well. Often close to certain situations. $1.2m over six years was upper tier coaches money at that time and that's what Knox got paid. And he was worth it for all the reasons you mention and then some. Knox really created the buzz again.

 

There was a LOT more to it than the money issue with Knox. Mr. Wilson was VERY concerned by the rumors Knox was gonna go to the USFL and it pissed him off. RW tolerates many things, but disloyalty is not among them. In addition, both Cribbs and Butler held out and, thanks to Barber it became FAR messier than it ever had to be. Knox knew it was Cribbs' last season in Buffalo as well. And then the strike. Any rift between the players and management, and there were many money-related issues, grew into a chasm. And Knox rebuffed RW's contract offers on more than two occasions and RW didn't like it. He thought Knox just strung him along and actually had already made up his mind about Seattle even while STILL under contract. The similarities to the Butler situation in that regard are striking.

 

Anyway, those days are long gone and I have no desire to convince anyone of anything about them. Believe what you will, it won't change a thing.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Looks like were are in agreement over a lot that transpired back in the Knox era. I just can't get over that Wilson didn't pay whatever Knox wanted at the time. Same thing with John Butler, if Wilson makes him an offer to be one of the highest paid at his position, he stays IMO. Sit down at a table, look him in the eye and say whats it going to take...then pay the man.

 

The thing is with Chuck Knox he didn't need an OJ or a Jim Kelly or a 100 million dollar super Mario. Knox could take a bunch of no name young players, bring in some older vets to rah rah rah the young guys, turn them all lose and win games. Knox was a supreme motivator, shrewd talent evaluator and overall really good head coach. Ralph Wilson had a Bill Belichick of his own in Chuck Knox and let him walk.JMO

 

 

What is sad is the fans suffer as long as the stadium is filled, Wilson will never hire another top HC unless the fans stop filling the stadium. The current Bills marketing dept will never let that happen, so fans will be stuck with the status quo until the team changes hands.

 

 

 

 

P.S. What really gets me is Marty S wanted the Bills HCing job badly in 09, and RW didn't feel "comfortable" with him for some reason. Bills fans are cursed....

[Clippers of Nfl]

And that is unfortunately the exact attitude that keeps this team as a perennial 7-9 powerhouse.

I dont get your point. A LOT OF PEOPLE think Jim was a jerk for slapping (not shaking) Schwartzs' hand.

Obviously if he became the head coach here, I would eventually accept him. But I currently hate him.

 

Wait a minute, please explain, what does my hate towards this coach have to do with our lack of sucess?

 

Are you implying that if I loved this loser, we would be a winning team?

 

Ps. He is not a freaking genius. He inherited a talented team. Their previous coach (i forgot his name, some african american dude) laid the foundation for the current team.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Clippers of Nfl

[spartacus]

The NFL is a QB driven league and while I love Fitz, he is not good enough. Look at the last 10 years, how many QBs not named Brady, Manning or Roethlisberger have represented the AFC in the Super Bowl. If Chan had one of those 3 guys at QB he would be considered a good coach because the Bills would win several more games a year.

 

and yet Harbaugh keeps winning with Alex freaking Smith at QB

[Orton's Arm]

That's all well and good but it doesn't address what my post did: that Theisman (rhymes with HEES-man) is full of crap when he asserts that nobody respects Gailey or Fitz. I know personally that's not true. That's why I'm calling bullsh*t on what he said.

 

It's easy to say we have good players but any rational analysis sees the Bills are severely lacking at some key positions.

 

QB- needs upgrade

WR- needs upgrade

LB- needs MAJOR upgrades

SS- needs MAJOR upgrades

CB- young and inexperienced and it will take awhile.

 

Love our Oline.

Love our Dline.

Hate our back 7.

 

I'm sorry but the idea that we would have a better W/L record if the players respected Gailey more just doesn't make sense to me. That's not saying Gailey is always a good enough coach or that Wanny is either for that matter. Wanny screwed the pooch something fierce on Sunday, we all saw that. And the major reason was he didn't trust his talent well enough to play them and the talent he did trust was not up to the task in Scott, Wilson, Barnett, and Rogers most glaringly.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Good post.

 

For whatever reason, our safeties aren't playing as well this year as they often have in the past. Maybe they're still adjusting to the new defensive scheme.

 

As for our DL, I love it on paper. But if you were to erase the names on the back of those jerseys, and look at nothing but what they've actually done thus far this season, you won't necessarily find much to love. Especially not at DE. Even at DT we've seen inconsistent play.

 

The DL's performance against the Patriots was pitiful. If those guys were seventh round picks and bargain basement free agents, maybe you'd expect performances like that. The Bills made a very substantial investment in the DL--in terms of both contracts and draft picks--to avoid precisely what we saw against the Patriots.

 

Maybe there's something to House's point that the team--and especially the DL--would have played harder for a coach like Harbaugh than it did for Gailey. I don't know. What I do know is that the DL's actual accomplishments bear no relation to expectations. My sense is the DL is underachieving.

[K-9]

Looks like were are in agreement over a lot that transpired back in the Knox era. I just can't get over that Wilson didn't pay whatever Knox wanted at the time. Same thing with John Butler, if Wilson makes him an offer to be one of the highest paid at his position, he stays IMO. Sit down at a table, look him in the eye and say whats it going to take...then pay the man.

 

The thing is with Chuck Knox he didn't need an OJ or a Jim Kelly or a 100 million dollar super Mario. Knox could take a bunch of no name young players, bring in some older vets to rah rah rah the young guys, turn them all lose and win games. Knox was a supreme motivator, shrewd talent evaluator and overall really good head coach. Ralph Wilson had a Bill Belichick of his own in Chuck Knox and let him walk.JMO

 

 

What is sad is the fans suffer as long as the stadium is filled, Wilson will never hire another top HC unless the fans stop filling the stadium. The current Bills marketing dept will never let that happen, so fans will be stuck with the status quo until the team changes hands.

 

 

 

 

P.S. What really gets me is Marty S wanted the Bills HCing job badly in 09, and RW didn't feel "comfortable" with him for some reason. Bills fans are cursed....

 

If we never agree on anything else, we'll always agree about Chuck Knox. One of the best coaches of all time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

If we never agree on anything else, we'll always agree about Chuck Knox. One of the best coaches of all time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

You and Fear the Beard are right on.

 

Chuck Knox might be the best coach not in the Hall of Fame.

 

History has not been quite fair about his place in history. Though he never went to a Super Bowl, he is arguably a better coach than some of those in the Hall.

[K-9]

Good post.

 

For whatever reason, our safeties aren't playing as well this year as they often have in the past. Maybe they're still adjusting to the new defensive scheme.

 

As for our DL, I love it on paper. But if you were to erase the names on the back of those jerseys, and look at nothing but what they've actually done thus far this season, you won't necessarily find much to love. Especially not at DE. Even at DT we've seen inconsistent play.

 

The DL's performance against the Patriots was pitiful. If those guys were seventh round picks and bargain basement free agents, maybe you'd expect performances like that. The Bills made a very substantial investment in the DL--in terms of both contracts and draft picks--to avoid precisely what we saw against the Patriots.

 

Maybe there's something to House's point that the team--and especially the DL--would have played harder for a coach like Harbaugh than it did for Gailey. I don't know. What I do know is that the DL's actual accomplishments bear no relation to expectations. My sense is the DL is underachieving.

 

Agreed our DL couldn't bring enough sustained pressure on Brady on passing plays. Major disappointment to be sure.

 

I disagree with the performance of our DLine against the Patriots' running game. Both DEs, MW and MA, played their positions as technically sound against the run as can be drawn on the chalkboard.

 

One of the DTs was doubled on every running play and the DT to the off side of the play was easily trapped and it would have taken incredible plays to be in a position to make the stop on most of those plays. But the point is, they occupied multiple blockers and there were clear gaps and time enough for our backers to fill the hole and make a play. That's where the D failed. But I put that on Wanny because safeties have no business playing middle LB most of the game and Byrd and Wilson have no business being asked to come up as a Sam or Will as much as they were, especially against double TE sets. They all got beaten up and worn down.

 

It's possible they would have played harder for somebody else. But if you've ever experienced what it's like to get pounded by a running game, play after play after play, then you know that it just wears you down physically and rips your heart out emotionally. There comes a point where you are a half step slower getting to the hole and you start reaching and missing tackles as your technique goes out the window. I'm not sure any amount of RAH RAH or other exhortations by ANY coach can solve that.

 

But, and here's where we can agree, there are coaches who are much better at not letting that happen in the first place. Wanny was NOT up to the task and I have a hunch his position coaches and players weren't too pleased with the lack of adjustments.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited October 6, 2012 by K-9

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Agreed our DL couldn't bring enough sustained pressure on Brady on passing plays. Major disappointment to be sure.

 

I disagree with the performance of our DLine against the Patriots' running game. Both DEs, MW and MA, played their positions as technically sound against the run as can be drawn on the chalkboard.

 

One of the DTs was doubled on every running play and the DT to the off side of the play was easily trapped and it would have taken incredible plays to be in a position to make the stop on most of those plays. But the point is, they occupied multiple blockers and there were clear gaps and time enough for our backers to fill the hole and make a play. That's where the D failed. But I put that on Wanny because safeties have no business playing middle LB most of the game and Byrd and Wilson have no business being asked to come up as a Sam or Will as much as they were, especially against double TE sets. They all got beaten up and worn down.

 

It's possible they would have played harder for somebody else. But if you've ever experienced what it's like to get pounded by a running game, play after play after play, then you know that it just wears you down physically and rips your heart out emotionally. There comes a point where you are a half step slower getting to the hole and you start reaching and missing tackles as your technique goes out the window. I'm not sure any amount of RAH RAH or other exhortations by ANY coach can solve that.

 

But, and here's where we can agree, there are coaches who are much better at not letting that happen in the first place. Wanny was NOT up to the task and I have a hunch his position coaches and players weren't too pleased with the lack of adjustments.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Amongst accusations that the Bills players quit in their loss to the Cheatriots***, the Bills coaches refused to let the players off the hook. Basically all public comment from Gailey/Wanny was that they don't know why the players were less effective in the second half. However there was no defense of the accusations that the players quit and only comments about "having to be mentally tougher."

 

In contrast the Jets were accused of "quitting by Niners DB Carlos Rogers in their beatdown at the hands of the Niners. The Jets gave up 245 yards rushing. Interestingly Rex Ryan and DC Mike Pettine defended their players. I'm not suggesting which approach is right but it sure is interesting:

 

"Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine posted 49ers cornerback Carlos Rogers’ quotes about the Jets quitting last Sunday on the projector screen in his players’ meeting room Wednesday morning. He allowed the players to read the words in silence. “There’s nothing worse,” Pettine said.

Pettine maintained that he did not agree that the defense gave up in the 34-0 loss, but he allowed that the players were worn out physically and emotionally during the drubbing."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...7#ixzz28XDvag7s

Edited October 6, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[K-9]

Amongst accusations that the Bills players quit in their loss to the Cheatriots***, the Bills coaches refused to let the players off the hook. Basically all public comment from Gailey/Wanny was that they don't know why the players were less effective in the second half. However there was no defense of the accusations that the players quit and only comments about "having to be mentally tougher."

 

In contrast the Jets were accused of "quitting by Niners DB Carlos Rogers in their beatdown at the hands of the Niners. The Jets gave up 245 yards rushing. Interestingly Rex Ryan and DC Mike Pettine defended their players. I'm not suggesting which approach is right but it sure is interesting:

 

"Defensive coordinator Mike Pettine posted 49ers cornerback Carlos Rogers’ quotes about the Jets quitting last Sunday on the projector screen in his players’ meeting room Wednesday morning. He allowed the players to read the words in silence. “There’s nothing worse,” Pettine said.

Pettine maintained that he did not agree that the defense gave up in the 34-0 loss, but he allowed that the players were worn out physically and emotionally during the drubbing."

 

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...7#ixzz28XDvag7s

 

That's interesting coming from Pettine. And he's right. Some of us have been saying our D was "worn out physically and emotionally during the drubbing" from the moment the game ended last Sunday. Getting run on does that. And it snowballs. Another reason I don't like it when Gailey abandons the run, too. Nothing imposes your will on a defense like beating them up in the running game. But I digress.

 

Wanny and Gailey both know better than to think anything other than our players got beat up last week. Maybe they're just parsing the language. To me, it doesn't matter how they dress it up. They can't fool me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited October 6, 2012 by K-9