FWIW: Whitner commentary on Bills coaching

[HOUSE]

Posted by Josh Alper on October 4, 2012, 2:40 PM EDT

 

 

49ers safety Donte Whitner will face off against his former team this weekend when the Bills head to San Francisco for a Saturday afternoon matchup.

 

Whitner doesn’t have the fondest memories of his time in Buffalo. During the playoffs last season, Whitner was asked about the differences between 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh and Bills coach Chan Gailey and he said that the biggest one was that Gailey used to publicly blame players when things were going badly in order to keep the heat off of himself.

 

With the Bills heading to town, Whitner was asked again about his thoughts about his former team. He made it clear that he thinks Gailey and the rest of the coaching staff are falling short when it comes to putting Bills players in position to succeed.

 

“You never go out there and feel like you’re in control of the football games and I think that comes from coaching,” Whitner said, via Eric Branch of the San Francisco Chonicle. “I think that comes from upstairs and I think that comes from just getting the right players in place. A lot of times when I was there, we struggled a lot. We wanted to win football games. We went out there and did everything they asked us to do and it didn’t happen.”

 

It’s happened for Whitner since coming the 49ers, which could say something about the Gailey/Harbaugh comparison or it could be a result of the talent disparity on the two rosters. Whatever the reason, it sounds like Whitner’s found what he’s looking for in San Francisco and that the visit from former teammates won’t make him wish he could shuffle back to Buffalo.

[Awwufelloff]

Totally agree with him, hoping for a new coach following this season.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

My take is he was so worried about doing everyone else's job in Buffalo he had a tough time just doing his own. All he did was make the tackles the front 7 in front of him would whiff on.

 

Whitner is right about Harbough,although I hope BB is correct and the Bills end up with Vic Fangio as their new HC next year

 

yea me too, coaching is everything

 

I always laughed about the anti whitner sentiment. The guy never left anything on the field. He was criticized because he was always making tackles down field but it was because he was always making tackles. His attention craving was a little annoying but somehow that stuff morphed into a widely held indictment of his game.

 

He had linebacker tackle counts game after game. Every one thought wilson and Scott were better. I don't see it.

 

As a side note, the Bills d vs the pats looked just like the old Jauron bend but don't break d allowing record breaking rushing games to unknowns and had beens with woefully undersized guys trying to drag down running backs.

 

 

 

 

[Buftex]

You can tell from the what he says, and the way he says it, Whitner loved his teammates in Buffalo... the anti-Whitner sentiment on this board, is one of the more puzzling things I can remember.

[1B4IDie]

You can tell from the what he says, and the way he says it, Whitner loved his teammates in Buffalo... the anti-Whitner sentiment on this board, is one of the more puzzling things I can remember.

It was an open honest interview.

 

The subtext was, Fitz, Stevie and Donald Jones are overachievers and scrapers as compared to the 9ers.

 

and the coaching staff in Buffalo didn't put players in a position to be winners where as the 9ers do.

 

I though the comments about being in control of the game were especially true. I don't know when the last time I thought the Bills were in control of the game. Not even the last Browns game. Maybe the 2 Chiefs game and the Redskins game in the last 20 games were in the only times the Bills were actually in control of the game. The rest of the game they were hanging on with a hope and a prayer.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[Best Player Available]

Here is some truth...

Chan's contract is up at the end of this season.

 

Are you sure about this? I feel better already!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Are you sure about this? I feel better already!

 

Great here comes Morv Turner.

[Gray Beard]

What a crock. This isn't pee wee or high school. There are only a few coaches who are truly difference makers (Peyton, BB, Harbaugh). Most of the rest of the coaches are whatever. 90% of the time, talent and elite QBs win. There is nothing I hate worse than fans blaming coaches for underachieving millionaire players.

 

That said, I like Whitner and he never got a fair shot here. He was nothing but a positive Bill and was a good solid player, jsut not the #8 overall. But that was never his fault, yet fans couldn't separate that. Anyways, he's to Graham catching a td bomb on DW on Sunday.

Sounds like you might be contradicting yourself. Whitner "never got a fair shot here." That sounds to me like bad coaching. The fans' opinions are meaningless, so if he never got a fair shot, it must have been because of bad coaching. Therefore, coaching is critical, even with a good player.

 

Perhaps you are trying to make a distinction between coaching players on technique, individual skills, etc., versus coaching to design plays and game strategies. If that is the case, then maybe you aren't contradicting yourself. Clearly, the Bills coaches are lacking when it comes to designing plays and game strategies. I don't know enough to judge whether they are any good at coaching players on things like technique and individual skills.

[Rico]

You can tell from the what he says, and the way he says it, Whitner loved his teammates in Buffalo... the anti-Whitner sentiment on this board, is one of the more puzzling things I can remember.

I think it is pretty easy to understand, and it all starts the day that Ralph hired Marv back as GM. The more savvy posters immediately & correctly recognized that this was a disastrous move on pretty much every level.... yet they had to read the usual dipsh#^s frantically spin this as a great move, while attacking those who did not agree with them. Things did die down though for the most part, and everyone was very excited by the time draft day rolled around. But when Lil Donte was revealed to be the choice, followed by the ridiculous McCargo trade-up, the savvy posters were outraged, and a lot of that outrage went back to the Marv hiring... Clowntime had officially begun.

 

Now, if Lil Donte had done ANYTHING on the field to show he was a quality player, things would probably have died down. Yeah, he had a nice 1st game against the Pats, with a pick that got nullified by penalty & a great diving break-up on an end-zone pass. And he did lay a great hit on Ocho Cinco. And he did have a Pick-6 against Tampa Bay in a Bills win. But that's about it. for 5 years. Less than mediocre in coverage, always a day late. Great at piling on after the tackle had already been made.

 

And nobody likes a little guy with a big mouth. That is an indisputable fact. He needed to just STFU up & he never did.

 

So that's 3 strikes against him:

1. Anger over Marv as GM

2. Negative factor on the field

3. Little guy with big mouth

and that's why he's out of here.

[K-9]

I always laughed about the anti whitner sentiment. The guy never left anything on the field. He was criticized because he was always making tackles down field but it was because he was always making tackles. His attention craving was a little annoying but somehow that stuff morphed into a widely held indictment of his game.

 

He had linebacker tackle counts game after game. Every one thought wilson and Scott were better. I don't see it.

 

As a side note, the Bills d vs the pats looked just like the old Jauron bend but don't break d allowing record breaking rushing games to unknowns and had beens with woefully undersized guys trying to drag down running backs.

 

After reading the rest of your post, I think you meant to say he left EVERYTHING out on the field.

 

Whitner's biggest problem was being a S drafted with the #8 pick overall and not Cutler or Ngata. That has nothing to do with Whitner though. Least of all his ability. He's a decent player and I'd take him any day of the week over George Wilson. Too bad it didn't work out in Buffalo. He wanted out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cutting Drew With Dignity]

And nobody likes a little guy with a big mouth. That is an indisputable fact. He needed to just STFU up & he never did.

 

Boo-yaa!

[Pirate Angel]

Chandler should have a big game vs the Whitner I know

[jwolf02]

My only problem with Lil' Donte is before last season, when seemingly no one was calling him (before the "who dey" tweet fiasco), he started twittering to fans and former Bills teammates about how much he wanted to come back, about how this is where he wanted to be.

 

If the coaches were putting himself in such bad situations... I wouldn't want to come back if I were him. Funny how he says all this now that he's gone.

[birdog1960]

My only problem with Lil' Donte is before last season, when seemingly no one was calling him (before the "who dey" tweet fiasco), he started twittering to fans and former Bills teammates about how much he wanted to come back, about how this is where he wanted to be.

 

If the coaches were putting himself in such bad situations... I wouldn't want to come back if I were him. Funny how he says all this now that he's gone.

makes perfect sense to me. unemployment versus working in one of the worst shops in town. he wasn't gonna choose unemployment.

 

strikes me as a pretty sharp guy. and a team player. he said only good things about teammates. but we all know that it's not only him that thinks of the bills as a team of near last resort. what do you imagine the reputation of the organization is among most other players in the league? i'll bet it's much like his. and by all available evidence they're correct.

[Mr. WEO]

Then explain why Belichick was a Dick Jauron type coach before Brady? What did Bill Walsh do before Montana? Of course, systems matter but it still is a player driven league. If Gailey had a qb like Brady or Rodgers, he magically becomes a much better coach. His system has made unheralded guys like Fitz, F Jax, SJ, and Nelson into quality NFL players. So he's a good coach. However without having that elite QB, he will always be limited.

 

IMO, Harbaugh is the best coach in the NFL because of what he has done with a limited QB. Andy Reid may be the best QB coach in the NFL and has made average qbs look very good. But he has always been limited because he never had that one true elite QB (McNabb was close but we all saw how his career finished). Again, behind every great coach is a great QB.

 

BB had a QB like Fitz (Brady:2001) and won a SB with him.

 

Andy Reid is a great coach?? It is to laugh.... Few game managers that bad have lasted as long as he has. And much worse QBs than McNabb have won SBs. The Eagles championship futility lays at the feet of Reid.

[BuffOrange]

Sounds like you might be contradicting yourself. Whitner "never got a fair shot here." That sounds to me like bad coaching. The fans' opinions are meaningless, so if he never got a fair shot, it must have been because of bad coaching. Therefore, coaching is critical, even with a good player.

 

All DW is saying there is Jauron's system wasn't a good fit for his skillset, which is probably true. That doesn't exactly contradict what Buscuit is saying about all but a few coaches being basically the same - most coaches are stubborn to a fault with their almighty systems. But do you really blame them for not designing a D that specifically suits their Strong Safety? If you think you need to do that then you shouldn't be using the 8th pick on him.

 

I think it is pretty easy to understand, and it all starts the day that Ralph hired Marv back as GM. The more savvy posters immediately & correctly recognized that this was a disastrous move on pretty much every level.... yet they had to read the usual dipsh#^s frantically spin this as a great move, while attacking those who did not agree with them. Things did die down though for the most part, and everyone was very excited by the time draft day rolled around. But when Lil Donte was revealed to be the choice, followed by the ridiculous McCargo trade-up, the savvy posters were outraged, and a lot of that outrage went back to the Marv hiring... Clowntime had officially begun.

 

Now, if Lil Donte had done ANYTHING on the field to show he was a quality player, things would probably have died down. Yeah, he had a nice 1st game against the Pats, with a pick that got nullified by penalty & a great diving break-up on an end-zone pass. And he did lay a great hit on Ocho Cinco. And he did have a Pick-6 against Tampa Bay in a Bills win. But that's about it. for 5 years. Less than mediocre in coverage, always a day late. Great at piling on after the tackle had already been made.

 

And nobody likes a little guy with a big mouth. That is an indisputable fact. He needed to just STFU up & he never did.

 

So that's 3 strikes against him:

1. Anger over Marv as GM

2. Negative factor on the field

3. Little guy with big mouth

and that's why he's out of here.

 

Very well said. It's pretty lame how all of this guy's fans pretend like any dislike of him is all due to sour grapes. I realize the Bills have been a terribly run organization. I like Jabari Greer & Pat Williams and I love Antowain Winfield.

But this guy just talked a lot and didn't play that well and has now lucked his way onto a great team/situation. I can still see him getting left in the dust by Brandon freaking Jacobs on like a 30yd TD run that jumpstarted the Giants 1st SB run.

 

My best memory of him is tackling the Raiders WR as he was celebrating an apparent game-clinching TD in the endzone in 2008. I'd love for someone on our team to do that to a Patriot.

[Bufcomments]

I thought Whitner was on point with his comments. When he said the scheme don't work during sometimes games he had to be talking about Wanny approach last week.

Thinking he still talks to some of the Bills players and was in a sense speaking for them.

[Bill from NYC]

I think it is pretty easy to understand, and it all starts the day that Ralph hired Marv back as GM. The more savvy posters immediately & correctly recognized that this was a disastrous move on pretty much every level.... yet they had to read the usual dipsh#^s frantically spin this as a great move, while attacking those who did not agree with them. Things did die down though for the most part, and everyone was very excited by the time draft day rolled around. But when Lil Donte was revealed to be the choice, followed by the ridiculous McCargo trade-up, the savvy posters were outraged, and a lot of that outrage went back to the Marv hiring... Clowntime had officially begun.

 

Now, if Lil Donte had done ANYTHING on the field to show he was a quality player, things would probably have died down. Yeah, he had a nice 1st game against the Pats, with a pick that got nullified by penalty & a great diving break-up on an end-zone pass. And he did lay a great hit on Ocho Cinco. And he did have a Pick-6 against Tampa Bay in a Bills win. But that's about it. for 5 years. Less than mediocre in coverage, always a day late. Great at piling on after the tackle had already been made.

 

And nobody likes a little guy with a big mouth. That is an indisputable fact. He needed to just STFU up & he never did.

 

So that's 3 strikes against him:

1. Anger over Marv as GM

2. Negative factor on the field

3. Little guy with big mouth

and that's why he's out of here.

 

Wow, what a great, and accurate post!!!!! I won't give them unlimited room, but Nix/Gailey are still trying to get this team away from the curse that was Levy/Jauron.

"Clown time" is a GREAT description, and was exactly where we were in 2006. And Whitner was no help at all with either his big mouth, or his play, which included getting run over and stomped by Sammy Morris.

No, not Jim Brown. Sammy Morris.

[eball]

Donte was around for what, Chan's first year? That means no Wannstedt, a bunch of crappy players, and a complete change in defensive scheme. It's really not surprising he questioned the coaching -- particularly after the Bills didn't make much of an effort to re-sign him after that season.

 

It's funny -- as much as I enjoy following Maybin's "career" and bashing him, I really don't care much about what Donte does. While he was in Buffalo he was clearly a "team first" guy and wanted to win. It's not his fault he was drafted #8, and unlike Maybin, he actually worked hard and contributed to the team.

 

Looking forward to watching the San Fran "D" Sunday, and seeing if Chan can really devise a gameplan that has some success.

[ko12010]

Then explain why Belichick was a Dick Jauron type coach before Brady? What did Bill Walsh do before Montana? Of course, systems matter but it still is a player driven league. If Gailey had a qb like Brady or Rodgers, he magically becomes a much better coach. His system has made unheralded guys like Fitz, F Jax, SJ, and Nelson into quality NFL players. So he's a good coach. However without having that elite QB, he will always be limited.

 

IMO, Harbaugh is the best coach in the NFL because of what he has done with a limited QB. Andy Reid may be the best QB coach in the NFL and has made average qbs look very good. But he has always been limited because he never had that one true elite QB (McNabb was close but we all saw how his career finished). Again, behind every great coach is a great QB.

 

 

Biscuit - one of my points is that it is NOT so black and white. I don't believe that it is 100% coaching nor 100% player. It is a combination, that honestly takes on an autonomous form of its own.

 

It may start with acquiring a player of tremendous talent, and then coaching kicks him up a notch, and then the player brings himself up another notch, and then the coach pushes the right button, etc... The process goes on like this.

 

I have said multiple times, and I stand by it, if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Bills, which would have been what, in 2000? he would've been out of the league in 3 years. He had no overwhelming physical ability, no identifiable x factor at the time which is why he went in the 6th round.

 

Bill Belicheck helped Brady grow, and as Brady's mindset and body changed from hard work and success, he transformed into the superstar that he is today.

 

Great coaches reveal latent talent, great players realize their latent talent. Again, I truly believe this is a simulaneous process which ebbs and flows between the coach doing more sometimes and then the player doing more sometimes, but always simultaneous.

 

I believe that very few players have ever come into the league that would succeed no matter where they went and were just so damn talented and mentally polished and tough that they could raise a franchise nearly on their own. Peyton Manning comes to mind. But there are many superstars and Hall of Famers who essentially, as if by divine intervention, came into the right place at the right time with the right coaching staff, management, and supporting cast on the field. Tom Brady IS one of these. He will go down as probably a consensus top 3 quarterback to ever play in the NFL, and deservedly so. But he was no Manning, born and groomed to be a great NFL QB.

 

This is why I tend to lean toward Coaching as undeniably our main issue right now. That is why I supported J.P., Trent, and Fitz. They CAN be good. At the right time, right place, and with the right franchise, all three could have had solid NFL careers. But Buffalo has been in such turmoil starting with top management that none of these guys ever had a real chance.

 

What makes me feel like sh*t as a life long die-hard Bills fan right now is that I fear it is Gailey and Wannestedt that are the main issue now. Before, it was lack of talent AND coaching, now it is simply coaching. We have a ton of talent on this team. Nix is damn good in my opinion. He helped build San Diego's roster up into a goldmine of talent that Schotty and Turner simply couldn't deliver with.

 

Nix and Whaley stay - Gailey and stache need to go. And this time - GET THE F******* head coach hire right Buddy! I know he tried and Gailey wasn't our first 5 choices, but we need to get it done with our next coaching staff. Easier said than done but it needs to happen.

 

 

-So C. Biscuit - I agree with you partially. But I obviously have my own opinions which many here will surely disagree with.