meazza Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Since nobody thinks we're on the path to playoffs any more than we were then the answer would be no...if you asked me. Getting one win more might be considered better off. And we also have the best defensive line in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Getting one win more might be considered better off. And we also have the best defensive line in the NFL Winning only hurts the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Winning only hurts the team. Losing kills my Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Best tweets of the night; Matt Welch @mleewelch RT @Heminator That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car. Brian Sack @brian_sack MSNBC's flag at half mast. David Burge @iowahawkblog Teleprompter SAAAAAVE MEEEEEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 already Lehrer using "trickle down" as if Romney said that... Uh...Lehrer was referring to Romney's use of the term "trickle down government".... Mitt used that term first, and used it a few times... he was using it as a criticism of Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 And... we got a contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Where the hell was Obama getting that "$5T tax cut" hooey? I've read extensively and this is the first time I've heard something like this, combined with Romney being literally nonplussed and saying that with five sons, he's learned to not accept the veracity of everything someone says, and the phenomenon of someone saying something over and over in. an effort to get people to believe it's true. Where did O get this... besides out if his own *? I can do it too, tho. What about Obama's $9 gazillion plan to starve the inhabitants of Venus? Seriously, I don't know why Obama had $5T on his brain, but that was a friggin train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 And... we got a contest. No, we don't. This didn't change anyone's mind. Americans aren't voting for captain of the debate team, they're voting for Homecoming King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I honestly hadn't planned on watching, but the wife turned it on and lured me into the den with scotch and chicken chilli nachos. I've got to say that the debate left me more than a bit stunned. Lehrer was unable to control the dialogue, tone, subject or tempo and as a result what had been planned as a televised farce actually wound up morphing into something resembling an actual debate. This clearly put President Obama on his heels, as he's not used to being doggedly pursued and put on the defensive by an aggressive opponent when he can't control the environment and isn't surrounded and protected by his cadre of handlers. President Obama looked smug in his finest moments and completely defeated in his worst, most of those coming in moments when he had to run away from his record rather than on it, which was frequently. By the end the President wasn't even counter-punching, instead being forced to parry Mitt Romney's barage of attacks on his agenda driven partisanship. An accusation to which he couldn't even respond. I am absolutely stunned that this was allowed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 I honestly hadn't planned on watching, but the wife turned it on and lured me into the den with scotch and chicken chilli nachos. I've got to say that the debate left me more than a bit stunned. Lehrer was unable to control the dialogue, tone, subject or tempo and as a result what had been planned as a televised farce actually wound up morphing into something resembling an actual debate. This clearly put President Obama on his heels, as he's not used to being doggedly pursued and put on the defensive by an aggressive opponent when he can't control the environment and isn't surrounded and protected by his cadre of handlers. President Obama looked smug in his finest moments and completely defeated in his worst, most of those coming in moments when he had to run away from his record rather than on it, which was frequently. By the end the President wasn't even counter-punching, instead being forced to parry Mitt Romney's barage of attacks on his agenda driven partisanship. An accusation to which he couldn't even respond. I am absolutely stunned that this was allowed to happen. While I think Romney was nice and aggressive and it helped him (the debate as a whole) I'm really not sure what debate you and many others listened to. This debate was (IMO) even worse than a normal debate and certainly didn't "morph" into an "actual debate." I was not impressed by either candidate, Obama looked very average and hence he lost. I'm not really sure what about Romney has everyone so high...and I say that to ask..what about Romney had everyone so high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just getting home.... I haven't watched the debate yet I will check it out on DVR tomorrow. After many of the comments I'm looking forward to watching Obama backpedal and being unable to defend his own record. Should be entertaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just getting home.... I haven't watched the debate yet I will check it out on DVR tomorrow. After many of the comments I'm looking forward to watching Obama backpedal and being unable to defend his own record. Should be entertaining Take notes and come tell me what was so impressive by either candidate. I've trolled through it twice now and agree that Mitt did good (certainly based on his expectations) but am sort of baffled by the take-away that he had a bunch of amazing points. I don't see where they are...not saying they aren't there...but I don't know where those who see them think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) As DC Tom said, this debate isn't going to change anyones mind...at least not those that post on political message boards. Most Americans, I would dare say, don't really follow this stuff every day...for many, I have no doubt (60 million viewers they are saying?) this is the first prolonged exposure they have had to Mitt Romney. And, as someone who will not vote for him, I must say, I was impressed. If this was all I had seen of him, I might even consider voting for him. He gave a great performance, and did exactly what he had to do to save his sinking campaign. I suspect he will see a substantial bump in the polls in the swing states (and then the Republicans will forget, all of the sudden, all the titty-babying they have done saying that the polls are skewed in favor of Obama), and will narrow the margins over the next week. Early CNN polls are already showing that, amongst those describing themselves as "undecided" that Romney was viewed as the "winner" tonight by almost 70%. That will surely translate in to some votes. For some reason, Obama took a much more deferential approach to this debate than I suspected. He did the same thing in the early Democratic primary debates way back...looks like the gloves come off in two weeks....Romney didn't make any "amazing points", but Obama did a poor job of taking him to task for the bs he was spewing...he gave Romney a pass. Romney took advantage. Edited October 4, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) For some reason, Obama took a much more deferential approach to this debate than I suspected. He did the same thing in the early Democratic primary debates way back...looks like the gloves come off in two weeks....Romney didn't make any "amazing points", but Obama did a poor job of taking him to task for the bs he was spewing...he gave Romney a pass. Romney took advantage. He was oddly not willing to step through several wide open doors. It was bizarre. That said, there was nothing said by either candidate. I would give Obama a "D" and Romney a "C-" ... it really was a pathetic debate and the moderator was terrible he was not qualified not only did he not moderate once responses got going but his questions were just...taken from a 3rd grade Q&A. The debate helped Romney no question (he was low anyway it damn well better have) but all in all I'm surprised nobody is talking about the quality of the debate as a whole. It was terrible. Maybe it's just me...and I know some will think I'm just partisan for saying it but I will say Mitt did a bit better than Obama...but the bottom line is debates are usually not great but this was one of the worst. I mean...literally...Mitt said nothing...Obama said nothing...neither guy said anything. Usually both guys say mostly nothing a bit of something. Tonight was just brutal to watch as an American. Edited October 4, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 He was oddly not willing to step through several wide open doors. It was bizarre. That said, there was nothing said by either candidate. I would give Obama a "D" and Romney a "C-" ... it really was a pathetic debate and the moderator was terrible he was not qualified not only did he not moderate once responses got going but his questions were just...taken from a 3rd grade Q&A. The debate helped Romney no question (he was low anyway it damn well better have) but all in all I'm surprised nobody is talking about the quality of the debate as a whole. It was terrible. Maybe it's just me...and I know some will think I'm just partisan for saying it but I will say Mitt did a bit better than Obama...but the bottom line is debates are usually not great but this was one of the worst. I mean...literally...Mitt said nothing...Obama said nothing...neither guy said anything. Usually both guys say mostly nothing a bit of something. Tonight was just brutal to watch as an American. Oh...you are not the only one who thought it was a bad debate... it wasn't over for two minutes before the MSNBC folks were saying it was a poorly run/moderated debate. Flipped to Fox and CNN as well...CNN was critical....FOX was just Hannity and Rudy Guliani (I can't think of few people in the political/media relm that I despise more than these two) beaming, acting as though they just won the election. Debates are mostly a dog and pony show....Mitt was definitely the best in show tonight. Obama has to be concerned about Biden next week...that could go either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Oh...you are not the only one who thought it was a bad debate... it wasn't over for two minutes before the MSNBC folks were saying it was a poorly run/moderated debate. Flipped to Fox and CNN as well...CNN was critical....FOX was just Hannity and Rudy Guliani (I can't think of few people in the political/media relm that I despise more than these two) beaming, acting as though they just won the election. Debates are mostly a dog and pony show....Mitt was definitely the best in show tonight. Obama has to be concerned about Biden next week...that could go either way... It really was a bad debate. I get the premise and understand why they thought it would work "ask broad question (3rd grade question) then give 2 minutes then try to run the show" but the show was never run. If I ran the debate I'd have spend 1.5 hours on about 3 or 4 things which we ALL know are the big "lies" or "half truths" both sides take issue with. 1) $5M tax cuts when deficits are an issue. Romney...Obama says that's your plan b/c w/ out more it is. Obama has a different plan you say doesn't do anything and is just politics. You to go at it for extended time.Go for a while. 2) Obama...you DO take $700Bish out of Medicare through a complex negotiation w/ hospitals. Romney says it hurts medicare. You say it doesn't. Go..for an extended time. 3) Mitt...you say Obama picks winners and loser. Obama you had a reinvestment act and that's what he's talking about. Go for an extended time (this should be half the debate...45 minutes...most important part of the last 4 years nobody talks about a lot of good and bad in that bill flesh it out). 4) Mitt you promise you can get things done b/c you worked w/ a democratic Mass legislature. Obama you said you could work together last campaign. The political system is hyper partisan tribal power struggle not viewing the governing of this country as a trustees for the American good but as power to be won and maintained. Explain how during the next 4 years you would hope to change it, and what America must know TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE for you to change it, and if POLITICAL reform is important the national good. (No matter how the timing the last 20 minutes MUST be left for this point) 4 points....go...that's it...1.5 hours...no 3rd grade questions w/ 2 minutes and then nonsense...cut both guys off when they steer off the topic but let them go when they keep on it...these are 4 things to get out of the way right off the bat...the most important 4 things. Edited October 4, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) It's not the job of the moderator to take issue with things the debaters say. It's the job of their opponent. Edited October 4, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) It's not the job of the moderator to take issue with things the debaters say. It's the job of their opponent. Those are the 3 things the debaters take issue w/ themselves in debate and campaigning!...so focus the entire thing on those then end w/ the tribal dysfunction in Washington. You aren't taking issue w/ it...you are making them stay on the topics they take issue w/ themselves. Both candidates were literally just saying whatever they wanted tonight...and nothing was said. Make them focus on these 3 issues b/c that's where they get testy about it...and chime in yourself too (yes I know this is taboo) to make sure it happens and stays focused....then end w/ #4. I have no doubt as a just an ordinary guy...not very smart...I could have moderated better than this schmuck. I mean...like I said earlier I don't have high expectation for debates...but this one was bad and yes I admit it was less bad for Romney (though IMO not that impressive b/c I don't see why it would be but clearly worse for Obama) ...but this isn't really a politically charged point b/c of perception it is just my honest opinion that it was in fact a low point amongst low points in terms of how it went....structurally. And btw w/ those questions as a framework Tony Reali should moderate w/ a mute button. Edited October 4, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellaman101 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 As DC Tom said, this debate isn't going to change anyones mind...at least not those that post on political message boards. Most Americans, I would dare say, don't really follow this stuff every day...for many, I have no doubt (60 million viewers they are saying?) this is the first prolonged exposure they have had to Mitt Romney. And, as someone who will not vote for him, I must say, I was impressed. If this was all I had seen of him, I might even consider voting for him. He gave a great performance, and did exactly what he had to do to save his sinking campaign. I suspect he will see a substantial bump in the polls in the swing states (and then the Republicans will forget, all of the sudden, all the titty-babying they have done saying that the polls are skewed in favor of Obama), and will narrow the margins over the next week. Early CNN polls are already showing that, amongst those describing themselves as "undecided" that Romney was viewed as the "winner" tonight by almost 70%. That will surely translate in to some votes. For some reason, Obama took a much more deferential approach to this debate than I suspected. He did the same thing in the early Democratic primary debates way back...looks like the gloves come off in two weeks....Romney didn't make any "amazing points", but Obama did a poor job of taking him to task for the bs he was spewing...he gave Romney a pass. Romney took advantage. Where do u get a sinking campaign at? I hope your not banking off the polls out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I got to see the "replay". Does anybody else think that Obama saying "budgets...the budget process" or whatever he said..."is important"...going to make fine ad fodder? I mean, if budgets are important, perhaps passing one...in the last 3 years...and not sending budgets to Congress that repeatedly get 0 votes, even from Democrats, would have been helpful? I haven't seen this quoted anywhere in "the reaction" so far. I think it's a subtlety that they all missed. I guarantee the guys who review the video...will not miss it. If nothing else, it's a good debate "zinger". "Mr. President, you keep talking about my budget plans, and last debate(important, because it reminds us of the beating), you said budgets were important. I wonder: why would a person who hasn't passed a budget in 3 years, and got 0 votes for the ones he sent to Congress, feel qualified to discuss the merits other people's budgets? Are you advising me on what not do do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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