What would Bill Belichick or Bill Parcells do with Ryan Fitzpatrick?

[section122]

Ok,

 

#1 BB would have reemed the OC for the play calling as he would have dummed down the game to make it ALL about the RB's with short safe passes. I know this because BB did that with Tom Brady in 2001. He build an offense around Fitz strengths if that didnt work they cut bait after the year and either sign trade for a QB, sign a FA or draft one. All dpends on which was the best option for the team.

 

BB biggest issue would be with your DEFENSE. Their performance would have gotten someone cut and also someone benched. He is a DEFENSIVE Guru and the effort in the 4th qrtr of the Pats game would NOT have been tolerated. (BB would have LOST it on the sidelines and heads on D would have rolled.)

The bolded is what is missing from this team. Anger or an emotion period is what helps teams be tough. Gailey had the nerve to question his player's mental toughness when I will question his. Wannstache in the box?! Get on the sideline and get in the player's *sses! Belicheat would not have stood for what happened to the Bills D in the second half he would have gone bananas and I respect him for that.

One of my friends refers to our coach as Grandpa Gailey and I like the moniker. Care dammit! He does well on O - he really does especially if you look at the tools he is given, but being a hc he needs to care about the D not pass it off on Wanny and be hands off. Belicheat runs a tight ship where EVERYONE is accountable to him that is what we are lacking.

 

As for the OP - turn him into a game manager while constantly looking for an upgrade. Pats* draft a qb regularly and either turn him into trade bait or wait out his usefulness while some other draft pick develops and takes their job. Why on earth anyone thought Thiggy was good or serviceable (he was the Phins 3rd string qb before Buffalo - think about that!) or better than taking a late flyer I will never understand. Yeah yeah he had limited (very limited) success with Gailey in KC but it was years before he came to B-lo and it had already been established he wasn't a starting qb.

 

Man I got way more heated typing this than I thought I would

[starrymessenger]

 

 

This is a great question and very interesting choice of coaches.

I think both of them would manage Ryan Fitzpatrick very much the same way that Harbaugh has managed Alex Smith. They would put him in a "game manager" role where the run powers the offense and he is asked to make only high-percentage, low-risk throws and take the sack if he can't guarantee that. Smith is NOT expected to make things happen. When he was, it was bad, bad, bad -inaccurate, low completion percentage.

 

Parcells won a superbowl with Phil Simms (21 TD, 22 INTs) and Jeff Hostetler (a guy who sported a completion percentage of 54% the year he won the Superbowl).

During the 2004 superbowl season, the Pats were a different team - they ran almost as much as they passed, and pretty much ran to set up the deep ball. And Brady was a different QB. He was not rockin' that 65% completion percentage in those days - barely over 60% in 2004, a bit better but fewer passes in 2001.

 

I don't think either would give Ryan Fitzpatrick the hook in favor of Vince Young or Tarvaris Jackson. They would game plan to his strengths, and not put him in a position to throw 3-4 INTs a game.

And they would win with him.

 

Aside: one puzzle to me is that people dis on "garbage time" statistics, stats after the game is considered already hopelessly lost. But then they rag on INTs in the same time.

If it's garbage time for good stats, shouldn't it be garbage time for bad stats?

I think this is a well considered response but I disagree with the conclusion. I think that they would hand Fitz a clipboard and find someone who could better execute Chan's offence. If Fitz was not happy, they would drop kick him back to Arizona.

Chan has a highly rated offence with a very substandard QB and a less than stellar receiving corps. What people fail to realize is just how productive it would be with a decent starter.

[Thirty Year Fan]

Have to disagree. Fitz is a very capable backup and mentor. I believe they would keep Fitz as the backup and get a starter,

I agree.

[yungmack]

Everyone who says these HC's would cut or bench Fitz is wrong. Everyone who says we would have a much better defense (and a new OC) is right.

 

That was a very winnable game Sunday. As many have pointed out, Fitz's first 2 ints resulted in no points for the pats. And we had a 2 TD lead in the 3rd Q. His last int was meaningless. This was a complete defensive collapse, plain and simple. This D is soft. Wannshdat is clueless--everyone should have known this as he did nothing to help out George Edwards last year.

On the money....The whole key to this season was to accept the Bills O as it existed last season, with a couple of tweaks (Cordy Glenn, TJ Graham), an adequate QB whose worst moments come when the team is behind, ok receivers, and health players at all positions, and another season of continuity.

 

With that in place, the focus was on the D. The key reason being that by shutting down (or slowing down) opponents, the O would not be playing from behind nearly as often, and would have one, two or more "extra" possessions per game which would increase the Bills lead and put the opponent into the position of playing from behind.

 

It was a sensible plan: have a decent and reliable offense supported by a dominating defense. However, Wannstedt has been disappointing (Oh, Wade, come home, all is forgiven!), and the overall defense hasn't performed anywhere near "dominance." And that might be Wannstedts fault as well.

 

Unless a much better defense begins showing up at once, this season is likely over right now.

[eball]

Everyone who says these HC's would cut or bench Fitz is wrong. Everyone who says we would have a much better defense (and a new OC) is right.

 

That was a very winnable game Sunday. As many have pointed out, Fitz's first 2 ints resulted in no points for the pats. And we had a 2 TD lead in the 3rd Q. His last int was meaningless. This was a complete defensive collapse, plain and simple. This D is soft. Wannshdat is clueless--everyone should have known this as he did nothing to help out George Edwards last year.

 

Well said.

[bobobonators]

I purposely picked two no-nonsense head coaches that won Superbowls. Neither head coach will resort to excuses, its win or see ya!

 

Here are the questions,

 

#1 Can we trace the lack of TEAM confidence back to Ryan Fitzpatrick? How does 7 interceptions in two key games effect any NFL teams confidence?

Would either head coach stick by their guy after last weeks game considering the embarrassing loss to the NY Jets? At some point you have to ask yourself, is this working??

 

#2 Can the Buffalo Bills win with a limited short pass offense through the playoffs? Belichick & Parcells want to win playoff games, not just get there.

I believe both head coaches would have built the offense around Vince Young rather then force a complicated offense on a guy that can't handle it.

Learn the offense over time, not a few preseason games.

 

#3 Is Ryan Fitzpatrick a true team leader for the Buffalo Bills or just the guy playing Quarterback ? Benching a poor quarterback can help a team re focus and eliminate the main cause of turnovers. Every expert says the same thing about the Bills, turnovers are killing them. Can we really afford to do nothing?

 

#4 If not Fitzpatrick, then who? I seriously doubt either head coach would back themselves into a corner with no real options..Tavaris Jackson would certainly move up by now. Its called planning ahead with a solid plan B.

 

So, what would both head coaches do with Ryan Fitzpatrick while addressing team confidence problems? The best coaches move on quickly with a solid plan. The average head coach just holds the course till he is eventually fired.

 

Thanks guys, I am really looking forward to the 49ers game. Hopefully things will improve.

 

 

GO BILLS!!

 

 

Parcells was able to take a very average QB in Quincy Carter and go to the playoffs. Carter was released for drug issues. But don't fool yourself into think that if a young Parcells was coaching this team, we wouldn't be winning with Fitz.

 

That being said, what coach is going to bench their starting QB after the team is 2-2 and the QB leads the league in TDs? We don't have Steve Young or a high 1st round talent (or any drafted QB) waiting in the wings to supplant Fitz. So what exactly do you want to do? I could maybe see if we were 0-4 and the offense was averaging 10 points a game. We're 6th in the NFL in scoring. As of right this second, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for Plan B's. The real plan B would be to have a top 10 defense, but I guess you wouldn't be able to address that problem as easily as saying "fitz sucks, replace him". Nope, that would be a bit tougher schematically speaking, requiring much more thought and a substantially longer post.

Edited October 3, 2012 by bobobonators

[BuffaloFan68]

They would cut Thiggy, bench Fitz, fire Wanny & put a different QB in to start even if it meant re-signing VY until T-Jack was ready.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think they would figure out how to get him on a division rivals team, so they would know they will never get beaten by quarterback play.

[Jauronimo]

They would probably grind him into meat to feed the players who are worth a damn! Fitzburger.

[NoSaint]

while we have been conditioned in recent years that cutting your starting qb midseason, or replacing a coordinator in september is normal.... its not.

 

they would at most bench him, play out the year and if come january they felt the same -- getting a replacement at pretty much whatever cost needed would be the priority.

[HOUSE]

They would cut Thiggy, bench Fitz, fire Wanny & put a different QB in to start even if it meant re-signing VY until T-Jack was ready.

:thumbsup:

[CardinalScotts]

Last three games Fitz has put up some good numbers but when you give up 52 and 49 points wouldn't you feel a little pressure to force things knowing on offense we NEED to score ?

He has 10 interceptions - when your down 25 with 6 minutes to go an interception doesn't impact the game, like we want to pretend it does.

 

350 and 4 tds defense gave up 52

307 and 2 tds defenes gave up 49

369 and 2 tds defense gave up 31

 

if you want to ignore the defense and blame it on turnovers your kidding yourself,

what would Parcells do- win on defense as always

what would Bellichik do- try to out score you like Chan has to, of course Gronkowski and Hernandez are impossible matchups and their defense isnt great so I think we would all try to outscore opponent.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Get him a Rhodes scholarship and send him to Oxford.

[Orton's Arm]

I purposely picked two no-nonsense head coaches that won Superbowls. Neither head coach will resort to excuses, its win or see ya!

 

Here are the questions,

 

#1 Can we trace the lack of TEAM confidence back to Ryan Fitzpatrick? How does 7 interceptions in two key games effect any NFL teams confidence?

Would either head coach stick by their guy after last weeks game considering the embarrassing loss to the NY Jets? At some point you have to ask yourself, is this working??

 

#2 Can the Buffalo Bills win with a limited short pass offense through the playoffs? Belichick & Parcells want to win playoff games, not just get there.

I believe both head coaches would have built the offense around Vince Young rather then force a complicated offense on a guy that can't handle it.

Learn the offense over time, not a few preseason games.

 

#3 Is Ryan Fitzpatrick a true team leader for the Buffalo Bills or just the guy playing Quarterback ? Benching a poor quarterback can help a team re focus and eliminate the main cause of turnovers. Every expert says the same thing about the Bills, turnovers are killing them. Can we really afford to do nothing?

 

#4 If not Fitzpatrick, then who? I seriously doubt either head coach would back themselves into a corner with no real options..Tavaris Jackson would certainly move up by now. Its called planning ahead with a solid plan B.

 

So, what would both head coaches do with Ryan Fitzpatrick while addressing team confidence problems? The best coaches move on quickly with a solid plan. The average head coach just holds the course till he is eventually fired.

 

Thanks guys, I am really looking forward to the 49ers game. Hopefully things will improve.

 

 

GO BILLS!!

 

> Can we trace the lack of TEAM confidence back to Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

I agree that if the Bills had Aaron Rodgers under center instead of Fitzpatrick, team confidence would greatly improve. On the other hand, other teams have had a high level of confidence, despite also having had mediocre QBs. I don't think Fitzpatrick can be held wholly responsible for the lack of team confidence.

 

> Would either head coach stick by their guy after last weeks game considering the embarrassing loss to the NY Jets?

 

The problem is that the long term answer at quarterback is not yet on the roster. Shuffling guys like Vince Young, Jackson, and Thigpen into or out of the starting lineup won't create any lasting benefit, for the same reason that the Todd Collins/Billy Joe Hobart QB competition did nothing to help the Bills over the long run.

 

> #2 Can the Buffalo Bills win with a limited short pass offense through the playoffs?

 

If you had a Joe Montana running that offense, then yes. With Fitzpatrick, not so much so.

 

> I believe both head coaches would have built the offense around Vince Young rather then force a complicated offense on a guy that can't handle it.

 

Bill Belichick doesn't exactly have a team bursting with backup QB talent behind Tom Brady. And yet he eschewed the chance to sign Vince Young twice: once before the Bills signed him, and a second time after we cut him. Belichick does not view Vince Young as the answer to New England's problems at backup QB. We should not view him as the answer to our problems at starting QB.

 

> Benching a poor quarterback can help a team re focus and eliminate the main cause of turnovers.

 

Agreed, but there are no better options on the roster right now. Once Tavaris Jackson learns the playbook he could provide a short-term boost. (Until defenses figure him out.) But why on earth would we want that? A flash in the pan at the QB position would hurt our draft position, while doing nothing whatever to solve the long-term problem at quarterback. If the Bills are serious about getting that problem solved, the best possible thing they could do would be to go 2-14. That would give them the early pick necessary to take one of the top-rated QBs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Ok,

 

#1 BB would have reemed the OC for the play calling as he would have dummed down the game to make it ALL about the RB's with short safe passes. I know this because BB did that with Tom Brady in 2001. He build an offense around Fitz strengths if that didnt work they cut bait after the year and either sign trade for a QB, sign a FA or draft one. All dpends on which was the best option for the team.

 

BB biggest issue would be with your DEFENSE. Their performance would have gotten someone cut and also someone benched. He is a DEFENSIVE Guru and the effort in the 4th qrtr of the Pats game would NOT have been tolerated. (BB would have LOST it on the sidelines and heads on D would have rolled.)

 

So the Pats fan pretty much sees it as I do. I agree, BB would NOT be saying "I have complete confidence in Dave" after that game. He might not ream him out in public, but privately heads would have rolled.

 

They would cut Thiggy, bench Fitz, fire Wanny & put a different QB in to start even if it meant re-signing VY until T-Jack was ready.

 

I understand that's what you guys want to see, but pinning that viewpoint on Belicheck or Parcells shows rather startling ignorance of the teams and strategy behind their several championships. Vince Young is exactly who these guys would NOT have tolerated as QB, not for a minute. Fitz could do perfectly well for them in the style of the teams that won championships, once he was on a leash with a choke collar. We do remember that these are the guys who won Superbowls with Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, and Brady before he built himself into a juggernaut, back when he, too, was a game manager, right?

 

The part about fire Wanny might be correct - Wanny might not be fired just yet, but he would be too sore to sit down for a month, and he'd certainly make some changes in how he ran his D.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Hopeful

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I purposely picked two no-nonsense head coaches that won Superbowls. Neither head coach will resort to excuses, its win or see ya!

 

Here are the questions,

 

#1 Can we trace the lack of TEAM confidence back to Ryan Fitzpatrick? How does 7 interceptions in two key games effect any NFL teams confidence?

Would either head coach stick by their guy after last weeks game considering the embarrassing loss to the NY Jets? At some point you have to ask yourself, is this working??

 

#2 Can the Buffalo Bills win with a limited short pass offense through the playoffs? Belichick & Parcells want to win playoff games, not just get there.

I believe both head coaches would have built the offense around Vince Young rather then force a complicated offense on a guy that can't handle it.

Learn the offense over time, not a few preseason games.

 

#3 Is Ryan Fitzpatrick a true team leader for the Buffalo Bills or just the guy playing Quarterback ? Benching a poor quarterback can help a team re focus and eliminate the main cause of turnovers. Every expert says the same thing about the Bills, turnovers are killing them. Can we really afford to do nothing?

 

#4 If not Fitzpatrick, then who? I seriously doubt either head coach would back themselves into a corner with no real options..Tavaris Jackson would certainly move up by now. Its called planning ahead with a solid plan B.

 

So, what would both head coaches do with Ryan Fitzpatrick while addressing team confidence problems? The best coaches move on quickly with a solid plan. The average head coach just holds the course till he is eventually fired.

 

Thanks guys, I am really looking forward to the 49ers game. Hopefully things will improve.

 

 

GO BILLS!!

 

Vince Young, Really?

 

That said they would stick with Fitz bc we have no better options. However I think they would have gotten a real QB in here 3 yrs ago.

 

Everyone who says these HC's would cut or bench Fitz is wrong. Everyone who says we would have a much better defense (and a new OC) is right.

 

That was a very winnable game Sunday. As many have pointed out, Fitz's first 2 ints resulted in no points for the pats. And we had a 2 TD lead in the 3rd Q. His last int was meaningless. This was a complete defensive collapse, plain and simple. This D is soft. Wannshdat is clueless--everyone should have known this as he did nothing to help out George Edwards last year.

 

[CardinalScotts]

Interesting fact BB was in year 2 when he won the SB with a no name QB called Tom Brady at the time. Been a winner ever since, he was not close to being fired at all.

 

you can win with a qb rating of 86.5 if your defense is top 3 which NE had in 2001 for their first superbowl

[TakeYouToTasker]

I really wish someone would take the time to respond to this:

 

Parcells and Bellicheck had Phil Simms and Drew Bledsoe as their starters respectively until Bellicheck fell into Tom Brady in the 6th round of the draft.

 

Simms had 199 TD and 157 INT including 4 seasons in which he had as many INTs as TDs, and Bledsoe had 251 TD and 206 INT including 6 seasons in which he had as many INTs as TDs.

 

They would deal with Fitz the exact same way they delt with the QBs they did have. By putting him in a position to succeed, and getting the best he has to give out of him. Both Simms and Bledsoe are borderline HOFers.

[Orton's Arm]

I really wish someone would take the time to respond to this:

 

Parcells and Bellicheck had Phil Simms and Drew Bledsoe as their starters respectively until Bellicheck fell into Tom Brady in the 6th round of the draft.

 

Simms had 199 TD and 157 INT including 4 seasons in which he had as many INTs as TDs, and Bledsoe had 251 TD and 206 INT including 6 seasons in which he had as many INTs as TDs.

 

They would deal with Fitz the exact same way they delt with the QBs they did have. By putting him in a position to succeed, and getting the best he has to give out of him. Both Simms and Bledsoe are borderline HOFers.

 

Okay, I'll bite.

 

Bledsoe's career has two distinct stages. During the first stage, he played like a Hall of Famer. During the second stage, he played like just another guy. By the time Belichick arrived in New England, Bledsoe had already entered the "just another guy" stage of his career. I am not aware of Belichick's coaching staff doing anything particularly innovative to get Bledsoe back into his Hall of Fame mode.

 

The thing about Bledsoe is that he needs a while to scan the field and process information. But if you give him time in the pocket, he can make some beautiful throws. He's a much more accurate downfield passer than Losman, even though both QBs have strong arms. To take full advantage of a QB like Bledsoe, you need a good running game to take pressure off the passing game, a very good OL to give him plenty of time to throw, and at least one deep threat like Peerless Price or Lee Evans. Maybe Belichick lacked the personnel necessary to install a Bledsoe-friendly offense.

 

I think there's a tendency among some here to blame Fitz's interceptions on non-Fitz factors. I've heard that he was forcing things in an effort to make up for the porous defense. I've heard that the INTs are because Fitz has been asked to be more than just a game manager. I disagree with those explanations. The reason for Fitz's INTs is his own inaccuracy.

 

Over the course of his career, Phil Simms averaged 7.2 yards per attempt. In Fitz's best season, he averaged 6.8 yards per attempt. In Fitz's best non-Gailey season, he averaged just 6.3 yards per attempt. Gailey is getting more out of Fitz than other coaches did. But he can't reasonably be expected to do with Fitz what the Giants did with Simms; because Simms was a much better quarterback than Fitz.

[Mr. WEO]

Okay, I'll bite.

 

. The reason for Fitz's INTs is his own inaccuracy.

 

Over the course of his career, Phil Simms averaged 7.2 yards per attempt. In Fitz's best season, he averaged 6.8 yards per attempt. In Fitz's best non-Gailey season, he averaged just 6.3 yards per attempt. Gailey is getting more out of Fitz than other coaches did. But he can't reasonably be expected to do with Fitz what the Giants did with Simms; because Simms was a much better quarterback than Fitz.

 

Ok, I'll bite back!

 

Simms was a career 55.4% passer--poor accuracy by any measure. They both are/were intercepted a lot. Simms never had more than 22 TDs in a season, yet twice he had 20 or more ints. He was a solid performer, not great. He played with great defenses and for a great coach. Fitz has neither.

 

I'll say it again--Fitz spotted his D a 3rd Q 2 TD lead. Nothing HE did after that point lost the game for us. This defense just isn't very good--they gave up 45 points in the second half of a game they were well ahead in. I will venture there will be no team in the league this year that will duplicate that feat.

 

Maybe the talent is there, maybe it's not. Wanny has already proven he has nothing new to bring to this team.