PatsFanNH Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Stop the tape at :32.........If someone could still frame where 96 has his shoulder pad pressed firmly into Fitz' lower leg...Fitz' feet under 96's chest and 96 has his arms wrapped squarely around Fitz' shins I think your argument that the Refs called this correct is BS. My point is don't give flag for Brady when Fitz' was as bad or worse. I never said they called the Fitz hit "correctly" I been stating that hit was a much harder call to make especially since they cant STOP the action and see whats happening. In Real time it isnt easy to tell.
BringBackFergy Posted October 4, 2012 Author Posted October 4, 2012 Sorry I misinterpreted what you were saying. The fact that Brady's hit was in the open hurt KW and yes, he may have violated the rule, but to watch Fitz crumble with an equally possible violation of the rule is frustrating. If Fitz was injured and didn't get right up...if he tore an ACL, would they have reviewed the play then?? Hard to say. Does anyone know how a player gets fined? In this case, did the Pats submit this film for a fine on KW or did the NFL review the incident on its own accord??
PatsFanNH Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Sorry I misinterpreted what you were saying. The fact that Brady's hit was in the open hurt KW and yes, he may have violated the rule, but to watch Fitz crumble with an equally possible violation of the rule is frustrating. If Fitz was injured and didn't get right up...if he tore an ACL, would they have reviewed the play then?? Hard to say. Does anyone know how a player gets fined? In this case, did the Pats submit this film for a fine on KW or did the NFL review the incident on its own accord?? I think the NFL reviews it on their own accord, but a team can also submit it for review I believe. (I have no idea which one was the case here.)
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I think the NFL reviews it on their own accord, but a team can also submit it for review I believe. (I have no idea which one was the case here.) Probably the fact that the league and refs do favor Brady, it is what it is. Hard enough to beat you guys even harder when you add the zebras.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Pink is clearly his color. Hit on Brady was right on the knee and appeared to be deliberate. Hit on Fitz wasn't a hit as much as a grab onto the ankle. Good thing he let go when he did too or it would be Thigpen playing. Sunday. I read that Kyle will argue the league that he was pushed ino the China Doll. Williams hit Brady on the back of the calf near the knee with his forearm as he was falling to the ground. “I could understand if I dove at him head-first and hit him or hit him behind the legs and dove at him with my shoulder,” Williams said. “But I hit him with my arm and get a $15,000 fine for hitting the guy with the ball. I don’t get it.”
kasper13 Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Well, next time, dive at him head first, hit him behind the legs with your shoulder/helmet and fall on his legs.. Make sure the 15 yards and $15,000 fine is worth it.
PatsFanNH Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I read that Kyle will argue the league that he was pushed ino the China Doll. Williams hit Brady on the back of the calf near the knee with his forearm as he was falling to the ground. “I could understand if I dove at him head-first and hit him or hit him behind the legs and dove at him with my shoulder,” Williams said. “But I hit him with my arm and get a $15,000 fine for hitting the guy with the ball. I don’t get it.” Sorry he is lying NO one touched him I just watched it 3 times NO ONE near him. and also tell him yes he dove at the knees a NO NO when tackling the QB... has been a rule for over 2 years now he should know that!
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Sorry he is lying NO one touched him I just watched it 3 times NO ONE near him. and also tell him yes he dove at the knees a NO NO when tackling the QB... has been a rule for over 2 years now he should know that! Just like Vince Wilfork and Bill Belicheck know the rules and follow them to the letter of the law at all times, right?
Movinon Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Just like Vince Wilfork and Bill Belicheck know the rules and follow them to the letter of the law at all times, right? +1
CodeMonkey Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Just like Vince Wilfork and Bill Belicheck know the rules and follow them to the letter of the law at all times, right? Based on SpyGate alone it is obvious that BellyCheat will do whatever he thinks he can get away with. But I fail to see what that has to do with this conversation.
BringBackFergy Posted October 5, 2012 Author Posted October 5, 2012 So, from the NFL Rulebook...Unnecessary Roughness includes a passer who is in the process of throwing or has just thrown a pass. It also states (bolded) If in doubt, the official should always call Unnecessary Roughness. Based on the videos above...Fitz in the process of throwing the ball...contact below the knees and hit high/low...the officials had no doubt in their minds that Fitz' hit was proper. http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant. Note: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactics, the covering official(s) should always call unnecessary roughness. A.R. 12.17 Third-and-20 on A30. Runner A1 runs to the A33, where he is tackled by B1, who hooks his fingers under the front of the runner’s helmet, but not his facemask, and forcibly twists his head. Ruling: 15 yards for unnecessary roughness. It is an automatic first down. A’s ball first-and-10 on A48. Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. (a) Players in a defenseless posture are: OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player; (3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; (5) A player on the ground at the end of a play; (6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return; (7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and (8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side. Roughing the Passer...KW's head was down when he made contact and Brady had just released the ball. Not possible to say KW "clearly knew" the ball had been released. ROUGHING THE PASSER Article 13 Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against passers during or just after a pass which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles: PASS LEAVING PASSER’S HAND; ONE-STEP RULE (1) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant. Finally, PatsFanNH - this is where we disagree on the rule for hitting below the knee: HITTING PASSER’S KNEE (5) A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him; Note 1: A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player. Note 2: It is not a foul if the defender swipes, wraps, or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him. #96 made contact at the knee at :32 of the video and then puts all weight onto his lower legs as Chandler Jones puts the weight over the top. No excuse for contact with another player. Again...refs should have called them both or non-calls for both but they involve the same set of circumstances. DE's who lose balance and make incidental contact with the QB in a FOOTBALL GAME!!! The fact that the Refs chose not to watch Fitz get wrenched at his lower legs but saw "roughing" for KW's tackle is nonsense.
TrueStory80 Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 How about his knee clearly down before getting into the endzone? Nah, just give it to him. Their RBs were averaging like 6 yds per carry. You think we would've stopped them from inside the 1 yd line? I wasn't even mad about that call. True Story
PatsFanNH Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Just like Vince Wilfork and Bill Belicheck know the rules and follow them to the letter of the law at all times, right? Ok and when they got fined etc, did EITHER WHINE to the press saying how it was unfair? NO... you did wrong you got caught pay the fine and move forward. So, from the NFL Rulebook...Unnecessary Roughness includes a passer who is in the process of throwing or has just thrown a pass. It also states (bolded) If in doubt, the official should always call Unnecessary Roughness. Based on the videos above...Fitz in the process of throwing the ball...contact below the knees and hit high/low...the officials had no doubt in their minds that Fitz' hit was proper. http://static.nfl.co...1_Rule_Book.pdf Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant. Note: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactics, the covering official(s) should always call unnecessary roughness. A.R. 12.17 Third-and-20 on A30. Runner A1 runs to the A33, where he is tackled by B1, who hooks his fingers under the front of the runner’s helmet, but not his facemask, and forcibly twists his head. Ruling: 15 yards for unnecessary roughness. It is an automatic first down. A’s ball first-and-10 on A48. Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. (a) Players in a defenseless posture are: OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player; (3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; (5) A player on the ground at the end of a play; (6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return; (7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and (8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side. Roughing the Passer...KW's head was down when he made contact and Brady had just released the ball. Not possible to say KW "clearly knew" the ball had been released. ROUGHING THE PASSER Article 13 Because the act of passing often puts the quarterback (or any other player attempting a pass) in a position where he is particularly vulnerable to injury, special rules against roughing the passer apply. The Referee has principal responsibility for enforcing these rules. Any physical acts against passers during or just after a pass which, in the Referee’s judgment, are unwarranted by the circumstances of the play will be called as fouls. The Referee will be guided by the following principles: PASS LEAVING PASSER’S HAND; ONE-STEP RULE (1) Roughing will be called if, in the Referee’s judgment, a pass rusher clearly should have known that the ball had already left the passer’s hand before contact was made; pass rushers are responsible for being aware of the position of the ball in passing situations; the Referee will use the release of the ball from the passer’s hand as his guideline that the passer is now fully protected; once a pass has been released by a passer, a rushing defender may make direct contact with the passer only up through the rusher’s first step after such release (prior to second step hitting the ground); thereafter the rusher must be making an attempt to avoid contact and must not continue to “drive through” or otherwise forcibly contact the passer; incidental or inadvertent contact by a player who is easing up or being blocked into the passer will not be considered significant. Finally, PatsFanNH - this is where we disagree on the rule for hitting below the knee: HITTING PASSER’S KNEE (5) A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him; Note 1: A defender cannot initiate a roll or lunge and forcibly hit the passer in the knee area or below, even if he is being contacted by another player. Note 2: It is not a foul if the defender swipes, wraps, or grabs a passer in the knee area or below in an attempt to tackle him. #96 made contact at the knee at :32 of the video and then puts all weight onto his lower legs as Chandler Jones puts the weight over the top. No excuse for contact with another player. Again...refs should have called them both or non-calls for both but they involve the same set of circumstances. DE's who lose balance and make incidental contact with the QB in a FOOTBALL GAME!!! The fact that the Refs chose not to watch Fitz get wrenched at his lower legs but saw "roughing" for KW's tackle is nonsense. Umm the hit on Brady was RIGHT OUT IN THE OPEN... AKA hard to miss... Fitz was easy to miss... should been called? Probably.. would it have changed anything.. probably not... Its over guys was ONE game on to SF for the Bills!
BringBackFergy Posted October 5, 2012 Author Posted October 5, 2012 Ok and when they got fined etc, did EITHER WHINE to the press saying how it was unfair? NO... you did wrong you got caught pay the fine and move forward. Umm the hit on Brady was RIGHT OUT IN THE OPEN... AKA hard to miss... Fitz was easy to miss... should been called? Probably.. would it have changed anything.. probably not... Its over guys was ONE game on to SF for the Bills! I know, I know...onward and upward...but we'll start another thread on November 12th PatsFanNH...deal?? Care to guess what the title of the thread will be???
Kemp Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 Team gives up 6 TDs in 6 possessions and some fans focus on the refs. Suck it up. We got crushed.
PatsFanNH Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I know, I know...onward and upward...but we'll start another thread on November 12th PatsFanNH...deal?? Care to guess what the title of the thread will be??? "REFS favor Brady" or "Golden Boy has refs in his pocket?" even if the score is 52-0 Pats that be the thread title lol
BringBackFergy Posted October 5, 2012 Author Posted October 5, 2012 "REFS favor Brady" or "Golden Boy has refs in his pocket?" even if the score is 52-0 Pats that be the thread title lol .NE- Buffalo Tie Game...Brady Leaves Game to Change Kotex.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) hahahahah like we will believe a putrids fan!!! KW barely touched that pu ssy's leg. post a video as proof and then I'll also call KW a liar Edited October 6, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 In defense of Kyle, consider how he basically throws the blocker while executing his swim move and doing a 90o pivot. This is why he lost his balance, imo. He's probably thinking that he did nothing wrong except succumb to the laws of physics.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Based on SpyGate alone it is obvious that BellyCheat will do whatever he thinks he can get away with. But I fail to see what that has to do with this conversation. Check who I was replying to and what the nature of this conversation is. It's about the double standard afforded the Pats. I think it's relevant. Ok and when they got fined etc, did EITHER WHINE to the press saying how it was unfair? NO... you did wrong you got caught pay the fine and move forward. http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2008/11/02/wilfork-admits-cheap-shot-on-losman/ Not whining, but an admitted cheap shot that ruined a QB's season cost VW $12,500 and no suspension. I can't imagine inflation adjusts $12,500 in that season to above $15K this year. By the way, that same hit against Brady, if it knocks him out of the game, gets you four games, guaran-!@#$-teed. If you don't believe me you're delusional. So, no double standard, you don't think?
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