bobinaz Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Could it be Chan is fine with the way Wanny is running the D because he hasn't a clue about the defense? Personally I think the HC should be HC, not OC or DC at the same time. I think this interferes with his ability to manage the game and see the performance of his coaches more objectively.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 So what do you suggest? Throwing Wanny under the bus? That always works well. Whatever Chan thinks he's not broadcasting it to the media. PTR
DFITZ1 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Could it be Chan is fine with the way Wanny is running the D because he hasn't a clue about the defense? Personally I think the HC should be HC, not OC or DC at the same time. I think this interferes with his ability to manage the game and see the performance of his coaches more objectively. I listened to Chan's interview on Howard Simon today and I couldn't tell if Simon was talking to Goober or Gomer. This is the same old crap we've heard for 10 years. Fact is it was an awful defensive game plan that had little chance of working. Failing to play the Pat's aggressively is a recipe to lose. I can't believe any HC in this league would have let that plan onto the field against a team as good as the Pats. The worst part about losing to the Pats is how they make our coaches look stupid game after game (OK, last year was the one in 15 games break).
NoSaint Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Could it be Chan is fine with the way Wanny is running the D because he hasn't a clue about the defense? Personally I think the HC should be HC, not OC or DC at the same time. I think this interferes with his ability to manage the game and see the performance of his coaches more objectively. A huge number of very successful HCs call plays for one side. Further, do you think chan as an offensive play caller with decades of experience (including his early career as a defensive coach - DBs, then D coordinator) has no clue what's on the other side of the ball?
Gray Beard Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 So what do you suggest? Throwing Wanny under the bus? That always works well. Whatever Chan thinks he's not broadcasting it to the media. PTR This
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 A huge number of very successful HCs call plays for one side. Further, do you think chan as an offensive play caller with decades of experience (including his early career as a defensive coach - DBs, then D coordinator) has no clue what's on the other side of the ball? Is it possible that Gailey has given too much carte blanche to Wannstedt and is not spending enough time overseeing the entire product? I know if I was a head coach that I'd be very interested in the defensive game plan because whether one is hands-on or hands-off, the head coach takes ultimate responsibility for all aspects of a football team. Is it not interesting that Belichick went from being more involved with the defense early in his career to being more involved with the offense later in his career? Don't you think that Belichick scrutinizes his coordinators work very closely before signing off on it? As I've pointed out numerous times in the past, Kevin Gilbride was considered a pass-happy Offensive Coordinator when he worked for weak coaches like Jack Pardee and Greg(g) Williams but ran balanced offenses and won Super Bowls with strong coaches like Bill Cowher and Tom Coughlin. I think the moral of the story is that giving free reign to an underling does not absolve the head guy of responsibility.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Chan has staked his job on Fitz and Wanny. It will be his last HC job.
NoSaint Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Is it possible that Gailey has given too much carte blanche to Wannstedt and is not spending enough time overseeing the entire product? I know if I was a head coach that I'd be very interested in the defensive game plan because whether one is hands-on or hands-off, the head coach takes ultimate responsibility for all aspects of a football team. Is it not interesting that Belichick went from being more involved with the defense early in his career to being more involved with the offense later in his career? Don't you think that Belichick scrutinizes his coordinators work very closely before signing off on it? As I've pointed out numerous times in the past, Kevin Gilbride was considered a pass-happy Offensive Coordinator when he worked for weak coaches like Jack Pardee and Greg(g) Williams but ran balanced offenses and won Super Bowls with strong coaches like Bill Cowher and Tom Coughlin. I think the moral of the story is that giving free reign to an underling does not absolve the head guy of responsibility. In fact I never implied it did. I said many successful coaches call plays, and chan knows far more about defense than people give credit for. Edited October 2, 2012 by NoSaint
#34fan Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Chan is fine? -Fine with what exactly? The guy sucks at his job! Where does he get off being fine? I want to see Chan Gailey NOT FINE. In fact, I want to see him GONE.
KOKBILLS Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) I certainly was not crazy about the way Wanny called that game...But when you have about $200 million getting routinely whipped on every down when the one thing you are assuming is that those guys will beat their man...It's tough...Mario, Marcel, KW, Kelsay, and Anderson should all give refunds for that performance...Not only did they get blocked, they got blocked exactly the way the pats wrote it up...Those running plays were in perfect rhythm...They were getting blocked at the point and staying blocked...No disruption, no one making a difference...It was a pathetic performance by a bunch of guys who are supposed to be good... Dareus is not playing up to being the #3 Draft Pick (Patrick Peterson, AJ Green, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, or Julio Jones anyone? Anyone?)...This is a kid I love, a kid who was thought to be the Top Prospect in the entire 2011 Draft by a ton of Scouts...But anyone (including me) that thinks Dareus is living up to that #3 overall pick so far, especially in that Draft, is nuts...He's not disrupting much of anything...And he's a DT...We should be seeing the dominance by now...Mario? Well...I know no one will believe me...But back when we signed him, I heard Buddy say that Mario wanted to come to a Team that played a 4-3, and would leave him at LDE, I knew that was weird...You're not going to take your best Pass Rusher and move him around? At least a bit? Whatever...KW is awesome, he just had a bad Game, but like they said on the radio today, KW has been in the middle of a LOT of games just like that one...Anderson? I don't know...Looks OK at times and out of control others...Kelsay? Nevermind... Wanny needs these guys to play up to the hype or he's well...You know the word...You don't look for smoke and mirrors when you supposedly have one of the best D-Lines in the NFL...You're expecting them...hell you should be demanding that they create havoc...And that is simply not happening... Edited October 2, 2012 by KOKBILLS
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If Chan can't get the job done then NEXT. Wanny is clueless and shouldn't have made it past the preseason. Fitz is Fitz and if you want a different result, such as a winning team, then we need a different starting QB. If Nix doesn't address these major issues either than he can go with the rest of the baby's bath water because there is no baby. When the entire D looks that bad - it's coaching more than anything else.
NoSaint Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 If Chan can't get the job done then NEXT. Wanny is clueless and shouldn't have made it past the preseason. Fitz is Fitz and if you want a different result, such as a winning team, then we need a different starting QB. If Nix doesn't address these major issues either than he can go with the rest of the baby's bath water because there is no baby. Yes, we'd find a better DC in September. Firing a coordinator 1 month into the job is reasonable.
BuffaloFan68 Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Wanny should be fired! Wanny is a liability. My 18 year old nephew could coach a better D that DAss Wanny!
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Wanny should be fired! Wanny is a liability. My 18 year old nephew could coach a better D that DAss Wanny! Of course he can. Only idiots become head coaches and assistants in the NFL and major colleges. PTR Edited October 2, 2012 by PromoTheRobot
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I certainly was not crazy about the way Wanny called that game...But when you have about $200 million getting routinely whipped on every down when the one thing you are assuming is that those guys will beat their man...It's tough...Mario, Marcel, KW, Kelsay, and Anderson should all give refunds for that performance...Not only did they get blocked, they got blocked exactly the way the pats wrote it up...Those running plays were in perfect rhythm...They were getting blocked at the point and staying blocked...No disruption, no one making a difference...It was a pathetic performance by a bunch of guys who are supposed to be good... Dareus is not playing up to being the #3 Draft Pick (Patrick Peterson, AJ Green, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, or Julio Jones anyone? Anyone?)...This is a kid I love, a kid who was thought to be the Top Prospect in the entire 2011 Draft by a ton of Scouts...But anyone (including me) that thinks Dareus is living up to that #3 overall pick so far, especially in that Draft, is nuts...He's not disrupting much of anything...And he's a DT...We should be seeing the dominance by now...Mario? Well...I know no one will believe me...But back when we signed him, I heard Buddy say that Mario wanted to come to a Team that played a 4-3, and would leave him at LDE, I knew that was weird...You're not going to take your best Pass Rusher and move him around? At least a bit? Whatever...KW is awesome, he just had a bad Game, but like they said on the radio today, KW has been in the middle of a LOT of games just like that one...Anderson? I don't know...Looks OK at times and out of control others...Kelsay? Nevermind... Wanny needs these guys to play up to the hype or he's well...You know the word...You don't look for smoke and mirrors when you supposedly have one of the best D-Lines in the NFL...You're expecting them...hell you should be demanding that they create havoc...And that is simply not happening... Couldn't disagree more. I'd bet there's lots of D coordinators that could do a better job than Wanny's done in this first month. The guy was here all of last year. He knows most of these players. They kept the terminology the same. If you watch the game it's not hard to see that the Bills have been woefully outcoached. Of course he can. Only idiots become head coaches and assistants in the NFL and major colleges. PTR Sarcasm aside, there are many incompetent coaches who've spent time in the NFL. The Peter Principle is considered to be a very legitimate belief.
Orton's Arm Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 So what do you suggest? Throwing Wanny under the bus? That always works well. Whatever Chan thinks he's not broadcasting it to the media. PTR This.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 p.s.-- I don't know if it's been posted elsewhere because I don't read every thread but Chris Kelsay said (paraphrasing) that Wanny told the defense this morning that he stayed up all night thinking whether he should have put the base defense back in the game. Sounds like remorse and second-guessing to me. I think he did finally did put the base D back in on the second to last possession when the game had already been decided. The Cheatriots*** scored TDs on 6 consecutive possessions. Maybe he could have given the base D one possession just to see what might happen? So what do you suggest? Throwing Wanny under the bus? That always works well. Whatever Chan thinks he's not broadcasting it to the media. PTR This. Actually, Promo articulated two pretty different ideas. Are you agreeing with both of them?
Orton's Arm Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Couldn't disagree more. I'd bet there's lots of D coordinators that could do a better job than Wanny's done in this first month. The guy was here all of last year. He knows most of these players. They kept the terminology the same. If you watch the game it's not hard to see that the Bills have been woefully outcoached. Sarcasm aside, there are many incompetent coaches who've spent time in the NFL. The Peter Principle is considered to be a very legitimate belief. I disagree with your disagreement! KOKBILLS made a very good point about how the defensive line has not lived up to the hype or the enormous investment (in terms of money and draft picks). That DL should have accomplished much more against the Patriots, whatever defensive scheme had been called! Wannstedt relied on that defensive line to do certain things--as he very well should have been able to do--and it let him down. Does that mean that Wannstedt called a great game, or even a credible game? Of course not. If I was to evaluate his performance as DC based on that one game only, I'd say he's not what I'm looking for in a defensive coordinator. I'm not complaining about the lack of blitzing. The Giants didn't blitz much against the Patriots either, the last time they met the Patriots in the Super Bowl. But the Giants defense was much more physical in disrupting the Patriots' routes, and generally had much more of a "go for the throat" mentality, even though they only rushed four guys. To the extent that you don't want to let Wannstedt off the hook for a bad performance, I'll agree with you. Just as I'll agree with KOKBILLS for not wanting to let the DL off the hook for being nothing at all like what Bills fans had hoped for or expected. Actually, Promo articulated two pretty different ideas. Are you agreeing with both of them? I think that Promo's two ideas are connected. He thinks that throwing Wannstedt under the bus is a bad idea, and that Gailey will avoid throwing him under the bus by publicly expressing his faith in him. I agree with both of those things. Even if Gailey is 100% sure he's going to fire Wannstedt at the end of the season, he gains nothing by announcing that intention now. Gains nothing, that is, beyond the perception that he is disloyal to his subordinates. A perception which would make Gailey's coaching staff a less attractive destination for would-be replacements to Wannstedt.
Recommended Posts