FreakPop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Fitz is going to end up (barring injury) with about 3500 yards 30 TDs 20 Ints and somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 to 10 wins. As much as the Fitz haters want a change there isn't a head coach in the league that would bench that kind of productivity. Sorry to bust your bubble but it is going to be Fitz again.
sllib olaffub Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Geno Smith if we dont make playoffs and chix is still there This I would love.
playman Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 has to be geno. even if we won´t have a 1st round pick for 4 years.
sllib olaffub Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Fitz is going to end up (barring injury) with about 3500 yards 30 TDs 20 Ints and somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 to 10 wins. As much as the Fitz haters want a change there isn't a head coach in the league that would bench that kind of productivity. Sorry to bust your bubble but it is going to be Fitz again. I can see this - that very reasoning being repeated out of Gailey's mouth. However, I've already seen the 4 games that have given him the lead in the NFL in touchdown throws, and a 2-2 record. I've seen him play for years now, and I know his attitude, his ability, and how he fits here with the players. Truth is - most of the guys on this offense DONT BELIEVE FITZ IS A FRANCHISE QB. You can see it in these guy's faces, read it between the lines in their interviews - the Bills have to develope game plans to minimize Fitzpatrick's weaknesses! They can't just go out there and take what the defense gives them, as many winning offenses do (Patriots, anyone?). NO - these Bills, with Fitz, have to play a certain way, a way that allows Fitz, with his LIMITATIONS, to be successful - and he is still erratic, still radically inconsistent, still almost single handedly gives games away! Sure, he may lead the NFL in touchdowns, but if it weren't for CJ Spiller, he'd be more like 5-13 touchdown/interception ratio. It was CJ, in those two wins, who dramatically changed field position, who brought the team across the green to within striking distance. It was because of the running game that the defenses were loose enough on the passing game - they chose the lesser of two threats, and Fitz was able to hit some touchdowns in the redzone. I'd say there are 20 other QB's in the NFL right now - if not more, that could have done better in that span. I think Tarvaris Jackson could have done better, simply because he would not have been as wildly inconsistent during our two losses. The statistics lie. If you're watching the games you know the Bills are winning - when they're winning - not because of Fitz, but DESPITE him. That is a handicap that won't ever go far in the postseason. We need a true QB. Nix knows it. Gailey seems stubborn about talking about it, but if it doesn't happen after this season, I know I'm not going to waste another season of fall Sundays on a Fitzpatrick led team that is certain to only ever end up one way. Edited October 7, 2012 by sllib olaffub
FreakPop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I can see this - that very reasoning being repeated out of Gailey's mouth. However, I've already seen the 4 games that have given him the lead in the NFL in touchdown throws, and a 2-2 record. I've seen him play for years now, and I know his attitude, his ability, and how he fits here with the players. Truth is - most of the guys on this offense DONT BELIEVE FITZ IS A FRANCHISE QB. You can see it in these guy's faces, read it between the lines in their interviews - the Bills have to develope game plans to minimize Fitzpatrick's weaknesses! They can't just go out there and take what the defense gives them, as many winning offenses do (Patriots, anyone?). NO - these Bills, with Fitz, have to play a certain way, a way that allows Fitz, with his LIMITATIONS, to be successful - and he is still erratic, still radically inconsistent, still almost single handedly gives games away! Sure, he may lead the NFL in touchdowns, but if it weren't for CJ Spiller, he'd be more like 5-13 touchdown/interception ratio. It was CJ, in those two wins, who dramatically changed field position, who brought the team across the green to within striking distance. It was because of the running game that the defenses were loose enough on the passing game - they chose the lesser of two threats, and Fitz was able to hit some touchdowns in the redzone. I'd say there are 20 other QB's in the NFL right now - if not more, that could have done better in that span. I think Tarvaris Jackson could have done better, simply because he would not have been as wildly inconsistent during our two losses. The statistics lie. If you're watching the games you know the Bills are winning - when they're winning - not because of Fitz, but DESPITE him. That is a handicap that won't ever go far in the postseason. We need a true QB. Nix knows it. Gailey seems stubborn about talking about it, but if it doesn't happen after this season, I'm know I'm not going to waste another season of fall Sundays on a Fitzpatrick led team that is certain to only ever end up one way. Since you seem to have the ability to read peoples minds and know everything, can you give me some insight into wallstreet or better yet how about the winning lotto numbers.
KD in CA Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Fitz is going to end up (barring injury) with about 3500 yards 30 TDs 20 Ints and somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 to 10 wins. As much as the Fitz haters want a change there isn't a head coach in the league that would bench that kind of productivity. Sorry to bust your bubble but it is going to be Fitz again. If you have a running game and defense like Houston or Baltimore, maybe. But if you are anyone else, you realize you need a lot more than that to compete for a championship in the NFL. This isn't the 1980s; 3500 yards passing is not special in today's NFL -- especially when you get blown out in half your games so you pile up lots of garbage-time stats. The idea that a 'game manager' QBs can win in the NFL has been exposed as a fantasy over the past decade. But you are right about next year; I don't see the Bills finding another solution. Geno will be a Chief or Raider next year. Or maybe a Saint depending on how Brees' contract is structured.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Does it matter if Wanny is still the DC and were still giving up 33 points a game? Maybe the NFL could initiate a draft for coaches and the Bills could finally acquire an upgrade on both sides of the ball If you have a running game and defense like Houston or Baltimore, maybe. But if you are anyone else, you realize you need a lot more than that to compete for a championship in the NFL. This isn't the 1980s; 3500 yards passing is not special in today's NFL -- especially when you get blown out in half your games so you pile up lots of garbage-time stats. The idea that a 'game manager' QBs can win in the NFL has been exposed as a fantasy over the past decade. San Francisco....where your fantasies come to life I wouldn't count Houston as a team winning with a game manager QB or winning on D. They did last year...'cuz they played half the season with their 3rd string QB and still made the championship. IMO Schaub is the most underrated QB and the league. He quietly puts up wins and elite numbers, and gets zero hype 'cuz he wasn't a high-round pick. If he can stay healthy this season, watch out for the Texans. Edited October 7, 2012 by Hopeful
Beerball Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 The questions remains: would Buddy Nix trade up to 5-10 spots to get his guy? He talks about letting the draft come to him, but those days are long gone. It's no guarantee that a trade means a franchise guy (NYJ w/Sanchez comes to mind) but it's clear sitting tight on draft day when you need a QB is a loser's mindset. If you like a guy, go get him or else someone will. Well stated. If a GM waits for a QB to fall to him he will get mediocrity. Outside of Rodgers it doesn't happen. See your guy. Get your guy. Wait for the draft come to you and you'll have one 7th round QB choice in 3 years. Go get your man. QB is the one position where this isn't going to happen via FA (SD Brees exception to rule). If a team has a franchise QB they keep them (NO Brees proves rule). A franchise QB needs to be selected in the draft and yes, you may have to overpay to get him.
FreakPop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 If you have a running game and defense like Houston or Baltimore, maybe. But if you are anyone else, you realize you need a lot more than that to compete for a championship in the NFL. This isn't the 1980s; 3500 yards passing is not special in today's NFL -- especially when you get blown out in half your games so you pile up lots of garbage-time stats. The idea that a 'game manager' QBs can win in the NFL has been exposed as a fantasy over the past decade. But you are right about next year; I don't see the Bills finding another solution. Geno will be a Chief or Raider next year. Or maybe a Saint depending on how Brees' contract is structured. Here we go with the "garbage time stats again". I guess we need to define "garbage time stats". I dunno, when your offense averages about 25 points and is still losing by 25+ points, and oh yeah gaining north of 500+ yards, maybe just maybe the defense sucks. Fitz had a 21-7 lead midway through the 3rd quarter vs NE. So take your garbage time stats and stick em'. Sick of hearing about garbage time stats as EVERY QB, RB, WR gets them, garbage time sacks or pic 6's are ok though, right?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I wouldn't count Houston as a team winning with a game manager QB or winning on D. IMO Schaub is the most underrated QB and the league. He quietly puts up wins and elite numbers, and gets zero hype 'cuz he wasn't a high-round pick. If he can stay healthy this season, watch out for the Texans. Schaub is an interesting case. He's always until recently had a bad defense but he's also had a good offensive line, a good strategist in Gary Kubiak, good running backs and an elite receiver in Andre Johnson. I'm not really sure how good Schaub is. A player you cite fairly often, Sam Bradford might look just as good on that team as does Schaub… very similar skill set.
KD in CA Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Here we go with the "garbage time stats again". I guess we need to define "garbage time stats". I dunno, when your offense averages about 25 points and is still losing by 25+ points, and oh yeah gaining north of 500+ yards, maybe just maybe the defense sucks. Fitz had a 21-7 lead midway through the 3rd quarter vs NE. So take your garbage time stats and stick em'. Sick of hearing about garbage time stats as EVERY QB, RB, WR gets them, garbage time sacks or pic 6's are ok though, right? My definition of garbage time is the entire 2d half of the Jets game and 4Q of the Pats game. But whatever, if you want to believe Fitz and his league leading INT totals are the answer at QB, knock yourself out. San Francisco....where your fantasies come to life I wouldn't count Houston as a team winning with a game manager QB or winning on D. They did last year...'cuz they played half the season with their 3rd string QB and still made the championship. IMO Schaub is the most underrated QB and the league. He quietly puts up wins and elite numbers, and gets zero hype 'cuz he wasn't a high-round pick. If he can stay healthy this season, watch out for the Texans. I didn't mean to imply that Schaub or Flacco were merely game manager QBs, just that their teams were well rounded enough to win even with that level QB. As you point out, the 49ers are an even better example (and one that also highlights the impact a coach can bring to a QB and team). So yeah, add Harbaugh, Willis, Smith and a handful of other guys from San Fran to the Bills and they'll be good enough to go one round in the playoffs without a QB upgrade. Edited October 7, 2012 by KD in CT
FreakPop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) My definition of garbage time is the entire 2d half of the Jets game and 4Q of the Pats game. But whatever, if you want to believe Fitz and his league leading INT totals are the answer at QB, knock yourself out. I didn't mean to imply that Schaub or Flacco were merely game manager QBs, just that their teams were well rounded enough to win even with that level QB. As you point out, the 49ers are an even better example (and one that also highlights the impact a coach can bring to a QB and team). So yeah, add Harbaugh, Willis, Smith and a handful of other guys from San Fran to the Bills and they'll be good enough to go one round in the playoffs without a QB upgrade. So we get to discredit Stevies, Chandlers, yards etc. and anybody else that catchs passes and TDs from Fitz during "garbage time"? Really! If Fitz pads his stats during garbage time than so does everyone else on the Bills offense! Pleeaase Edited October 7, 2012 by FreakPop
K-9 Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 So we get to discredit Stevies, Chandlers, yards etc. and anybody else that catchs passes and TDs from Fitz during "garbage time"? Really! If Fitz pads his stats during garbage time than so does everyone else on the Bills offense! Pleeaase And so does every other QB, WR, TE, etc. People act like everything they see the Bills doing is unique to the Bills. It's hilarious really. GO BILLS!!!
KD in CA Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 So we get to discredit Stevies, Chandlers, yards etc. and anybody else that catchs passes and TDs from Fitz during "garbage time"? Really! If Fitz pads his stats during garbage time than so does everyone else on the Bills offense! Pleeaase Gonna keep trying to argue deails while ignoring the main point, huh? Fact is there are at least 20 head coaches who would bench Fitz's 'level of productivity' because they already have a better QB. And when you factor in teams who are investing in very young QBs that number is even higher. Seriously, what teams in the NFL do you think would trade their starting QB straight up for Fitz right now?
Beerball Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Seriously, what teams in the NFL do you think would trade their starting QB straight up for Fitz right now? I can think of none.
Awwufelloff Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I personally believe the 5 top rated QBS in the draft next year are all better then Fitz and all could become franchise QBs.
FreakPop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Gonna keep trying to argue deails while ignoring the main point, huh? Fact is there are at least 20 head coaches who would bench Fitz's 'level of productivity' because they already have a better QB. And when you factor in teams who are investing in very young QBs that number is even higher. Seriously, what teams in the NFL do you think would trade their starting QB straight up for Fitz right now? I would also, BUT who do the Bills have that is better than Fitz? Who are they going to get that is better than Fitz? Top 5 QBs are not easily and readily available. If the Colts did not have an Andrew Luck but DID have Ryan Fitzpatrick, who would their head coach start? Umm, real easy here, it's Fitzpatrick. and that goes for every team out there. No coach anywhere is just going to bench 3500 yards 30 TDs ad 20 Ints for something less than that. What is hard to understand?
BillsVet Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I would also, BUT who do the Bills have that is better than Fitz? Who are they going to get that is better than Fitz? Top 5 QBs are not easily and readily available. If the Colts did not have an Andrew Luck but DID have Ryan Fitzpatrick, who would their head coach start? Umm, real easy here, it's Fitzpatrick. and that goes for every team out there. No coach anywhere is just going to bench 3500 yards 30 TDs ad 20 Ints for something less than that. What is hard to understand? What is hard to understand is how with 4 years of starting tape on Fitzpatrick, the Bills chose to ignore (again) the most important position on the field. Meanwhile, there are 10 guys in their rookie or second season starting at QB in the NFL. And you talk about Fitzpatrick's stats getting to those levels without seeing 3/4ths of the NFL season. Heck, if you predicted his stats after 4 games last season, he'd have gone for 4,160 yards, 36 TD's and 12 INT's. Quantifying QB success with raw numbers like yards passing, TD passes, and INT's is so passe.
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