Doc Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 So basically the NFL is full of cheaters, and instead of bringing it to light or changing it, they publicly scapegoat/humiliate one team? Okay, it's a theory.
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 So basically the NFL is full of cheaters, and instead of bringing it to light or changing it, they publicly scapegoat/humiliate one team? Okay, it's a theory. That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally.
boyst Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally. And where is Mangini and all of those "out of the box" coaches. They're swept under the rug.
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 And where is Mangini and all of those "out of the box" coaches. They're swept under the rug. Exactly - who got the worst punishment between bellichek and Mangini?
boyst Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Exactly - who got the worst punishment between bellichek and Mangini? Mangini was not all that amazing as a HC, his tenure since has proved it... But, if the NFL was going to love a franchise, they'd love it to be NY. When is there never a good NJ team?
Meathead Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 what have they won since they got caught cheating? nuthin
Doc Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally. I look at it this way. Barry Bonds was busted for steroids. You could say "everyone does them." Does that mean Bonds should get a free pass?
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) I look at it this way. Barry Bonds was busted for steroids. You could say "everyone does them." Does that mean Bonds should get a free pass? Not at all implied by me. You are the one saying no one else does it. Get caught, get punished. I think a lot of people are on the list - just like steroids though Edited September 28, 2012 by NoSaint
Doc Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Not at all implied by me. You are the one saying no one else does it. Get caught, get punished. I think a lot of people are on the list - just like steroids though Well then, the question would be whether it's more believable to say that one did/few do it or that most/all do it?
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 what have they won since they got caught cheating? nuthin Like 85% of their games and the first 59 mins of two superbowls, It's not like the wheels came off. They won a couple last second games to finish the seasons before, lost a couple last second ones after Their combined record might even be better since honestly. Atleast on par. But yes, no rings. Well then, the question would be whether it's more believable to say that one did/few do it or that most/all do it? I don't think he's the only one. It might not be all of them, all the time, doing the exact same thing.... But most if not all are doing what they can to get ahead.
Meathead Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact So they went from the best team in the league, to the best team in the league that doesn't match up well against the giants? They've lost 16 regular season games in 5 seasons since, including a season without their hall of fame qb. Cut that 5 loss season without brady and they've averaged less than 3 regular season losses since. Even with it, it's barely over 3 losses a season. In those 4 seasons with Brady they've been to the Super Bowl twice. I just get frustrated by the idea that they fell apart since because the giants beat them twice.
Jim in Anchorage Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact And you would have preferred the franchise dissolved? Kraft a lifetime NFL ban? Hell any one connected with the team a life time ban? Christ I am sick of people blaming a chicken s*** video incident by the Pats for the Bills sucking for going on a generation.
Best Player Available Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 And you would have preferred the franchise dissolved? Kraft a lifetime NFL ban? Hell any one connected with the team a life time ban? Christ I am sick of people blaming a chicken s*** video incident by the Pats for the Bills sucking for going on a generation. But,But, they may have used expanded frequencies.........
MattM Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I'm sort of sick of the Pats* apologists on this board. Facts are, they were the only ones caught doing this and were suspected of doing a whole lot more. As this article from the NYT points out, citing two unnamed NFL Competition Committee sources, the Pats* were suspected and accused internally over and over again of doing scuzzy things, much more so than anyone else. I also recall folks like Ross Tucker as noted above (who played for them during the period in question) as saying they pushed the envelope whereever they could and got themselves to sleep at night with the "but everyone does it" mantra when folks like Ross who played elsewhere knew that not to be true. How about Del Rio and Marinelli saying that their headsets conked out at mysterious key times during key drives, all of the "referee malfunctions" we've seen with our own eyes over the years and on and on. Personally, I suspect that they got away with more than they were caught with and that they are a far outlier in terms of the Bell curve of questionable behavior in the NFL: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sports/football/11nfl.html?_r=0 Personally, this quote says all I need to know: "The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role. “They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.”
ganesh Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 i used to say that. life is about experiences though, and what they mean to you 5, 10, 15, 25 years later. when the bills win the super bowl, its going to be one of the most amazing experiences of my life. its something that ill always be able to look back on and say "wow.. it actually happened... we won the super bowl!" i dont want that tarnished. its like... youre standing on the tee box on a par 3, 150 yards out. it just feels wrong. 100% agree....When I grew up in India in the 70s and 80s, the country cupboard was bare with regards to sports other than the 8 Gold Medals in Men's hockey prior to their Independence. Then in 1983, the Indian Cricket Team came out of nowhere to win the World Cup in England beating the mighty West Indies. To this day, I still remember every frame of those 8 hours and the post game celebrations as shown on TV 29 years ago and gets replayed in our mind over and over....That win changed how the team was perceived and they have gone on to be a powerhouse for the past two decades that now India is the financial capital for Cricket. Simply Amazing, how something changes our lives dramatically.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 Like 85% of their games and the first 59 mins of two super bowls. By that yardstick the Bills would make the playoffs every year. PTR
BuffaloWings Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 (edited) Fishy will be when a team that had ten penalties last week doesn't have a single holding or pass interference penalty called this week. I'm sure Kraft's check has already cleared. I think it all comes down to politics...Kraft does seem to have Goodell's ear more than any other owner, so I wouldn't doubt that the league favors the Patriots on certain calls. That said, I'm wondering if there will be many phantom calls or non-calls this weekend. After Monday's debacle, I think the league doesn't want any controversy regarding the officiating...be it questionable possession calls or penalties. Granted, they may not care if the Bills get hosed on a few calls because they're a small market and it would all be hidden among the several Sunday games, but I can't imagine they'd want anything controversial involving any teams with large fan bases. Edited September 28, 2012 by BuffaloWings
NoSaint Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 By that yardstick the Bills would make the playoffs every year. PTR touche - i knew the 59 mins comment would get beaten up, but they have averaged better than 13-3 and have been down to the wire in 2 superbowls out of the 4 seasons with brady post-spygate
Doc Posted September 28, 2012 Posted September 28, 2012 I'm sort of sick of the Pats* apologists on this board. Facts are, they were the only ones caught doing this and were suspected of doing a whole lot more. As this article from the NYT points out, citing two unnamed NFL Competition Committee sources, the Pats* were suspected and accused internally over and over again of doing scuzzy things, much more so than anyone else. I also recall folks like Ross Tucker as noted above (who played for them during the period in question) as saying they pushed the envelope whereever they could and got themselves to sleep at night with the "but everyone does it" mantra when folks like Ross who played elsewhere knew that not to be true. How about Del Rio and Marinelli saying that their headsets conked out at mysterious key times during key drives, all of the "referee malfunctions" we've seen with our own eyes over the years and on and on. Personally, I suspect that they got away with more than they were caught with and that they are a far outlier in terms of the Bell curve of questionable behavior in the NFL: http://www.nytimes.c...11nfl.html?_r=0 Personally, this quote says all I need to know: "The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role. “They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.” This.
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