K-9 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 You cant be a hall of famer on just a good arm. But you certainly cant be a hall of famer if you dont have a good arm. Please tell me what it means to "have a good arm." GO BILLS!!!
Billsrhody Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 "Passing" isn't just the ability to throw the ball a long distance (which Losman could do well). It's also the ability to throw the ball with consistent accuracy (which Losman wasn't exactly noted for). Even for Losman's shorter passes, guys would often have to reach down to their shoestrings or jump wildly in the air in order to catch his throws. Rob Johnson was a much more accurate passer than Losman, and had a good, strong arm as well. If he'd had merely average pocket presence and sack-avoidance technique, he could have had a very good career. There are a number of necessary conditions for being an NFL quarterback: a certain minimum level of physical size and strength, a certain level of toughness, a certain level of sack avoidance ability, etc. If a guy fails to meet even one of those necessary conditions, he will fail as a quarterback. But assuming he meets all the minimal qualifications, then his accuracy as a passer will represent a huge component of his overall NFL success. I think that's what Billsrhody was getting at in his earlier post. Exactly.. thanks for the help Please tell me what it means to "have a good arm." GO BILLS!!! I really cant quantify it for you if thats what you're looking for. Having a good arm implies you can throw the ball far and throw the ball accurately.
BillsBiker Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 "Yo! don't say those things... thats my quarterback man... sniff sniff"
K-9 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I really cant quantify it for you if thats what you're looking for. Having a good arm implies you can throw the ball far and throw the ball accurately. Why not? NFL teams quantify it every time they work out a QB. Suffice to say, Ryan Fitzpatrick can make all the throws required even though he will never be confused with the John Elway who had the second strongest arm I've ever seen personally next to James Harris. His major problems are a long wind-up which makes the ball late at times, over-striding which lowers his height and causes passes to be batted down (as well as harder for receivers to pick up), and poor footwork which can impact different aspects of a throw like accuracy, timing, and velocity. Sometimes all three of these major factors come into play on a throw and it is the ugliest thing you'll ever see. GO BILLS!!!
Dorkington Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 "Passing" isn't just the ability to throw the ball a long distance (which Losman could do well). It's also the ability to throw the ball with consistent accuracy (which Losman wasn't exactly noted for). Even for Losman's shorter passes, guys would often have to reach down to their shoestrings or jump wildly in the air in order to catch his throws. Rob Johnson was a much more accurate passer than Losman, and had a good, strong arm as well. If he'd had merely average pocket presence and sack-avoidance technique, he could have had a very good career. There are a number of necessary conditions for being an NFL quarterback: a certain minimum level of physical size and strength, a certain level of toughness, a certain level of sack avoidance ability, etc. If a guy fails to meet even one of those necessary conditions, he will fail as a quarterback. But assuming he meets all the minimal qualifications, then his accuracy as a passer will represent a huge component of his overall NFL success. I think that's what Billsrhody was getting at in his earlier post. I guess we'll agree to disagree on the exact percentages of what makes or breaks a QB. IMO, decision making, pocket presence and leadership are equally as important as the physical tools of accuracy and arm strength. Without both, you don't have a great QB. I don't, by any means, think Fitz is great. But I think he's the best option we have *right now* and doesn't generally lose us games by himself (even in the Jets game without the INTs, the defense gave up too many points, for example). The last two games he's managed to do pretty well, and I'd take those performances every week as long as our defense holds up, and our ground game continues to be successful.
boyst Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 All you in the Fitz hate crew who would you rather have that the Bills had a chance with (we had no shot with Vick; see Goodell). Why is that guy better then Fitz? Many of you trolls were crying last year about Fitz. Besides simply and mindlessly saying he sucks and It's explain his "sucking." Do you know why he threw them or what caused them? Maybe you'd be taken more seriously if you stated a better argument becausewe all know he is not All-pro every week .
gumby Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Fitz does what most back-ups in this league can do. One week he can light it up and you say to yourself "Wow why is this guy a back-up". Following week he's lousy and you say "Now I remember why he's a back-up". Problem is you don't know what you're getting from him week to week. In the NFL that isn't good enough. Not nearly. Watching the last 3 weeks and I can't help thinking how good the Bills would be with a real NFL QB.
mjt328 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I cringe everytime Fitz steps back to throw.
bruceisloose78 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 everytime i see him winding up to throw I hold my breath. Every time
Billsrhody Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I guess we'll agree to disagree on the exact percentages of what makes or breaks a QB. IMO, decision making, pocket presence and leadership are equally as important as the physical tools of accuracy and arm strength. Without both, you don't have a great QB. I don't, by any means, think Fitz is great. But I think he's the best option we have *right now* and doesn't generally lose us games by himself (even in the Jets game without the INTs, the defense gave up too many points, for example). The last two games he's managed to do pretty well, and I'd take those performances every week as long as our defense holds up, and our ground game continues to be successful. I agree with you that he is out best option right now. However, you say he doesnt lose many games by himself.. of course no one loses games by themselves.. but when you play like he did in the jets game you dig a deep hole for your team. All you in the Fitz hate crew who would you rather have that the Bills had a chance with (we had no shot with Vick; see Goodell). Why is that guy better then Fitz? Many of you trolls were crying last year about Fitz. Besides simply and mindlessly saying he sucks and It's explain his "sucking." Do you know why he threw them or what caused them? Maybe you'd be taken more seriously if you stated a better argument becausewe all know he is not All-pro every week . I dont hate Fitz, I just don't think the bills can win a superbowl with him at QB. I personally, would like to see them draft a young QB to develop. They passed on guys like Jake Locker and Christian Ponder who I would have loved to see the bills draft.
Dorkington Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I agree with you that he is out best option right now. However, you say he doesnt lose many games by himself.. of course no one loses games by themselves.. but when you play like he did in the jets game you dig a deep hole for your team. I have no problem holding Fitz accountable for games he plays poorly. My big problem though, it seems here at TBD, that if the team loses it's *all* his fault. And if the team wins, it's despite his presence. Even the last two games, with no INTs, and steller QB ratings, he's piled on as being horrible.
K-9 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I dont hate Fitz, I just don't think the bills can win a superbowl with him at QB. I personally, would like to see them draft a young QB to develop. They passed on guys like Jake Locker and Christian Ponder who I would have loved to see the bills draft. Are you suggesting we should have taken Locker or Ponder with the number 3 pick in the draft instead of Dareus? Seriously? I don't care if they both go on to HOF careers and Dareus never makes a Pro Bowl, NOBODY in their right mind would have passed on Dareus for either one AT THE TIME GO BILLS!!! Edited September 25, 2012 by K-9
Billsrhody Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I have no problem holding Fitz accountable for games he plays poorly. My big problem though, it seems here at TBD, that if the team loses it's *all* his fault. And if the team wins, it's despite his presence. Even the last two games, with no INTs, and steller QB ratings, he's piled on as being horrible. Well I can only speak for myself when I say that I haven't said he played horrible in week 2 or 3. I cant say I saw anyone stating that either. Are you suggesting we should have taken Locker or Ponder with the number 3 pick in the draft instead of Dareus? Seriously? I don't care if they both go on to HOF careers and Dareus never makes a Pro Bowl, NOBODY in their right mind would have passed on Dareus for either one AT THE TIME GO BILLS!!! Do you realize that we likely could have traded that #3 overall pick for the #10 overall pick and another 1st and 2nd rounder? Of course I'm not suggesting they should have taken either of them at #3. But we certainly could have moved up or down to grab a QB.
K-9 Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 Do you realize that we likely could have traded that #3 overall pick for the #10 overall pick and another 1st and 2nd rounder? Of course I'm not suggesting they should have taken either of them at #3. But we certainly could have moved up or down to grab a QB. I guess your earlier post confused me because you clearly said the Bills bypassed both Locker and Ponder. You didn't mention any trade scenarios that, while fun to speculate on, are nothing more than conjecture anyway. I just can't believe you would have bypassed Dareus, clearly the best player in the draft when the Bills picked, for a chance to get a QB at 10 and Locker would have been gone anyway as he was taken earlier. It's probably best for all of us not to speculate on what could have been. Fitz is the starter until Buddy is firmly convinced there is a guy worth taking to replace him. He has stated that several times. And while their potential is better, Locker, Ponder, Dalton, et al are not currently better than Fitz and thus don't offer the team a greater chance of success. And that's not just my opinion. That's the opinion of the people that make the personnel decisions for the team. GO BILLS!!!
Billsrhody Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 I guess your earlier post confused me because you clearly said the Bills bypassed both Locker and Ponder. You didn't mention any trade scenarios that, while fun to speculate on, are nothing more than conjecture anyway. I just can't believe you would have bypassed Dareus, clearly the best player in the draft when the Bills picked, for a chance to get a QB at 10 and Locker would have been gone anyway as he was taken earlier. It's probably best for all of us not to speculate on what could have been. Fitz is the starter until Buddy is firmly convinced there is a guy worth taking to replace him. He has stated that several times. And while their potential is better, Locker, Ponder, Dalton, et al are not currently better than Fitz and thus don't offer the team a greater chance of success. And that's not just my opinion. That's the opinion of the people that make the personnel decisions for the team. GO BILLS!!! I agree that Fitz gives us the best chance to win this year. I just don't know if thats enough to get us to the Superbowl. I think all three of the guys you named have potential to be very good QBs in the NFL and are obviously at a very different point in their careers. Its not worth while to speculate, but who knows who else the bills could have picked up with the additional picks they would have received for trading down.
FreakPop Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) everytime i see him winding up to throw I hold my breath. Every time Maybe you guys should follow a different team then, because Fitz is the QB this year and probably the next couple of years also. I cringe everytime Fitz steps back to throw. Edited September 25, 2012 by FreakPop
Rico Posted September 25, 2012 Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) You cant be a hall of famer on just a good arm. But you certainly cant be a hall of famer if you dont have a good arm. How does what I said make me an idiot? I wasn't a fan of Ryan Mallett.. Dont get me wrong, an important part of being a QB is being smart and having good leadership skills.. but you still need to be able to make the throws. What % of importance would all of you assign passing to a QBs game? Obviously you have to have some NFL-level passing skills to start with.... but intangibles such as good pocket presence, a feel for the game, leadership & smarts are FAR more important imo. That's why you can win somewhat with a Fitz, but you are just asking for a disaster with a JP & (in this day & age) a Bledsoe. Edited September 25, 2012 by Rico
Billsrhody Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Obviously you have to have some NFL-level passing skills to start with.... but intangibles such as good pocket presence, a feel for the game, leadership & smarts are FAR more important imo. That's why you can win somewhat with a Fitz, but you are just asking for a disaster with a JP & (in this day & age) a Bledsoe. Losman won 7 games in 2006. Fitz hasn't exactly proved that you can "win somewhat" with him.. not sure where you're going with that?
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 Best way to look at Fitz is like a point guard in basketball. He gets the ball out of his hands quickly and allows his playmakers to make plays. He will never be a true elite QB but we could be doing much worse than him. As long as he limits his mistakes, he can definitely be a winning QB in the Alex Smith model. That said, he needs to hit a few throws down the field this week. BB will have the Pats sitting on the short throws and daring the Bills to throw deep. Personally, if I was the coach, I'd go deep every 2 or 3 series. 1) It looses up the defense. 2) With the garbage refs, there's a chance for a PI. 3) Worse case scenario, it's a INT that is like a punt.
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