Gregg Williams bounty statement

[NoSaint]

So at today's hearing the Gregg Williams statement came out:

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0917/greggwilliamsdocument.pdf

 

There's some interesting notes based on what is, and isn't included. My quick gut reactions if anyone cares to hear- I know a few are following.

 

-he does point blank implicate vilma as having money on favre. It directly disputes a lot of other statements saying that it never happened. I am still curious to hear the truth, I think there's something missing from both sides still.

 

-just signed Friday. Weird to me that the nfl waited until the business day before its meeting with vilma to get this signed. Not saying its sinister, just it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have this days after the lawsuits were filed at the latest (if not back in February when he made the statements, or before player appeals, at coach appeals, etc...). waiting seems to let them craft what fits the latest developments a little better would be the tin foil hat explanation. Sloppy work is the alternative.

 

-no mention of any other bounties (Warner, Rodgers, newton) which has been part of this

 

- Gregg backs the clean hit narrative

 

-Gregg absolves himself from anything bounty related, he just ran a wholesome pool and everything else just happened around him

 

-a lot of "I don't recall specifics"

 

-claims he built it off a pre-existing saints program, not any mention of his own allegedly pre-existing programs

 

-vilma has been strangely quiet so far tonight

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[Malazan]

I am still curious to hear the truth, I think there's something missing from both sides still.

 

There will always be an element of truth missing.

 

-just signed Friday. Weird to me that the nfl waited until the business day before its meeting with vilma to get this signed. Not saying its sinister, just it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't have this days after the lawsuits were filed at the latest (if not back in February when he made the statements, or before player appeals, at coach appeals, etc...). waiting seems to let them craft what fits the latest developments a little better would be the tin foil hat explanation. Sloppy work is the alternative.

 

or it lets the NFLPA who is running the other side of it lock themselves into a story. The league likely aren't saints here (pun intended), but the NFLPA and players have flowing with the wind on a lot of 'facts' too. It's been a battle between Goodell and DeSmith.

 

 

 

-no mention of any other bounties (Warner, Rodgers, newton) which has been part of this

-vilma has been strangely quiet so far tonight

 

vilma is going to be the example. He let the NFLPA direct his actions and I think it's likely the NFL give him the harshest deal. He's not going to say anything until the NFLPA decides what is best. I take a lot of issue with the NFLPA throughout this process as I don't think they were doing thing in the interest of players individually or otherwise. I think DeSmith is dirty and one of the worst things to happen to the league and the players in some time.

[SDS]

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[NoSaint]

 

 

There will always be an element of truth missing.

 

 

 

or it lets the NFLPA who is running the other side of it lock themselves into a story. The league likely aren't saints here (pun intended), but the NFLPA and players have flowing with the wind on a lot of 'facts' too. It's been a battle between Goodell and DeSmith.

 

 

 

 

 

vilma is going to be the example. He let the NFLPA direct his actions and I think it's likely the NFL give him the harshest deal. He's not going to say anything until the NFLPA decides what is best. I take a lot of issue with the NFLPA throughout this process as I don't think they were doing thing in the interest of players individually or otherwise. I think DeSmith is dirty and one of the worst things to happen to the league and the players in some time.

 

I won't disagree with anything too strongly here. The first part is essentially what I was going for - wait as long as you can than produce the right narrative to lock everything in place. If the document was written in February, it wouldn't be as tightly and perfectly crafted to address the exact issues brought up in appeals and court. In that sense it's entirely possible they were playing for the last shot to pull a sports term, not really protecting the whistle blowers. They still have cerullo in pocket if anything else plays out too. It does imply that Gregg would sign anything though.... Which I'm not 100% willing to accuse. It's possible and has been argued that his apology was written by league lawyers even but I'm not all the way to arguing it. Just willing to note its something to watch as this develops.

 

To the other half - Vilma has his own lawyer here but I doubt he's working too far outside the nflpa. I'm amazed the other players didn't follow suit and get their own legal reps... Especially with the judge pushing your very concerns.

 

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Sometimes I take for granted that not everyone jumps to bounties - especially on this board when they hear his name. Edited title.

 

And vilma has started lighting up twitter.... So much for the last observation. He's pointing out the timing, accusing the nfl of coercing Williams, and pointing to his 9 sworn statements from players and coaches.

 

Honestly, as a casual saints fan (easy to get swept up post Katrina) this is just getting tiring. I can only imagine the locker room fatigue. Just what a struggling defense needs right now....

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[NoSaint]

You guys do know that a lawyer wrote this.

Right but is it his narrative, and his lawyer wrote it with him or him signing whatever an nfl lawyer faxed him off to him in Thailand or Africa or whatever part of his big world tour he's made it to at this point that makes a difference.

 

No one thinks Gregg dialed up that document on his own. But it could still be his story, just tightened up by someone looking out for his well being as opposed to him giving the nfl what they want.

 

Which brings up that he might have insisted to wait as long as possible to cover his own butt as a possible explanation too which isn't getting a lot of talk in the vilma vs goodell dynamic

[papazoid]

the NFL is getting a "do over".....the judge handed them the path to make it all stick....

[NoSaint]

the NFL is getting a "do over".....the judge handed them the path to make it all stick....

 

Wasn't the judge - berrigan still can jump in whenever she wants - it was an nfl appeals panel that gave the mulligan. If berrigan thinks the process is bunk it can get over turned by her still.

 

Sidenote: The guy I shared in the last thread (tulane sports law professor that's been present at everything open to public) tweeted the statement contradicts the previous court filings on day 1 by the nfl. I can't recall what that would entail as it seems pretty consistent, but I'm curious to see where that tweet leads.

[NoSaint]

And Albert breer is tweeting there's a cerullo statement on record now, given to vilma today. That it does contradict some of Gregg's, but he doesn't elaborate. We will see. (cerullo is the assistant that was fired, and claims after giving him a knockoff SB ring, the saints blackballed him- saints alleged he disappeared repeatedly including SB week, and his stories about where he was during these disappearences were proven to be lies, hence the firing).

 

Seems we're close to all the cards hitting the table.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[Best Player Available]

I really hope Williams career falls off a cliff. Just based on the 49er pre game audio tape alone.

Hopefully he will become irrelevant since non of his actions were good for the game.

[Garion]

I really hope Williams career falls off a cliff. Just based on the 49er pre game audio tape alone.

Hopefully he will become irrelevant since non of his actions were good for the game.

 

This is how I feel as well..

[jr1]

this kook "blew away" the Bills in his interview

[dhg]

this kook "blew away" the Bills Tom Donahoe in his interview

 

Fixed it for you

Edited September 18, 2012 by dhg

[K-9]

I really hope Williams career falls off a cliff. Just based on the 49er pre game audio tape alone.

Hopefully he will become irrelevant since non of his actions were good for the game.

 

Pretty safe to say his career has fallen off the cliff already. He's toxic and will most likely never work in the NFL again.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mr. WEO]

And Albert breer is tweeting there's a cerullo statement on record now, given to vilma today. That it does contradict some of Gregg's, but he doesn't elaborate. We will see. (cerullo is the assistant that was fired, and claims after giving him a knockoff SB ring, the saints blackballed him- saints alleged he disappeared repeatedly including SB week, and his stories about where he was during these disappearences were proven to be lies, hence the firing).

 

Seems we're close to all the cards hitting the table.

 

Great work as always, NoSaint.

 

I've always assumed that Williams named Vilma and that's where this all came from.

 

I see Goodell giving him 4 games. The Judge will not step in because she cannot challenge the veracity of the Gregg Williams affidavit. Cerullo obviously has credibility issues, as do the other players. Willams has already had his career ruined. He won;t benefit from swearing Vilma put a bounty on Favre's head.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Great work as always, NoSaint.

 

I've always assumed that Williams named Vilma and that's where this all came from.

 

I see Goodell giving him 4 games. The Judge will not step in because she cannot challenge the veracity of the Gregg Williams affidavit. Cerullo obviously has credibility issues, as do the other players. Willams has already had his career ruined. He won;t benefit from swearing Vilma put a bounty on Favre's head.

part of me is still surprised that gregg actually signed off on this, even if true (and i dont mean on friday particularly, just the story in general whenever he agreed to back in january). it just surprises me he would go that direction. as you said (outside of maybe with jeff fisher) i cant see him getting any more shots. One question i had is that he was signed onto that staff and as far as i remember was never fired - yet in this document it says he is no longer employed. not bringing this up for credibility or anything of that sort - just curious if i missed his dismissal, or if they have same back room arrangement in st louis that hes done, or if its just the semantics of being suspended before he really even got to get going there. must be odd for his son too at this point - i know they tried him calling plays during the preseason, any idea who the defacto DC is this season at this point?

 

i think if this goes to 4 games, its done too. but at this point, yesterday was a time to start settlement talks and instead the NFL ramped back up. i dont know that they offer vilma that strong of a reduction. vilma would be silly not to take 8 games even (served while on PUP) and walk away at this point. but it seems like its getting to be a principle on his side too. i guess after saying i think its done with 4 ive devolved into "...but who knows"

 

it just seems to be getting old around the city and i imagine theres fatigue in the locker room from the story. hopefully with the cerullo statement being shared in the near future (id assume) we get close to a conclusion soon. its really a shame that its dragging this far, regardless of who is right or wrong.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[mrags]

Just saw some of this on espn. Greggo is a snitch in the worst way. He's guilty of what he did and he's bringing down Vilma for absolutely no reason. He won't be getting back into the NFL probably ever, why the continuous attempts to put blame on others. Sure Vilma did what he did, but let him battle that out. Greg gets no respect in my book.

[Mr. WEO]

part of me is still surprised that gregg actually signed off on this, even if true (and i dont mean on friday particularly, just the story in general whenever he agreed to back in january). it just surprises me he would go that direction. as you said (outside of maybe with jeff fisher) i cant see him getting any more shots. One question i had is that he was signed onto that staff and as far as i remember was never fired - yet in this document it says he is no longer employed. not bringing this up for credibility or anything of that sort - just curious if i missed his dismissal, or if they have same back room arrangement in st louis that hes done, or if its just the semantics of being suspended before he really even got to get going there. must be odd for his son too at this point - i know they tried him calling plays during the preseason, any idea who the defacto DC is this season at this point?

 

i think if this goes to 4 games, its done too. but at this point, yesterday was a time to start settlement talks and instead the NFL ramped back up. i dont know that they offer vilma that strong of a reduction. vilma would be silly not to take 8 games even (served while on PUP) and walk away at this point. but it seems like its getting to be a principle on his side too. i guess after saying i think its done with 4 ive devolved into "...but who knows"

 

it just seems to be getting old around the city and i imagine theres fatigue in the locker room from the story. hopefully with the cerullo statement being shared in the near future (id assume) we get close to a conclusion soon. its really a shame that its dragging this far, regardless of who is right or wrong.

 

They won't let him use the PUP games as time served. He had surgery electively and is out anyway because of that. * games would be meaningless if he planned on sitting 6 anyway.

Just saw some of this on espn. Greggo is a snitch in the worst way. He's guilty of what he did and he's bringing down Vilma for absolutely no reason. He won't be getting back into the NFL probably ever, why the continuous attempts to put blame on others. Sure Vilma did what he did, but let him battle that out. Greg gets no respect in my book.

 

yeah Gregg's a rat. But he's exposed Vilma as a thug and a liar. He's is batlling that out now.

[Thisistheyear]

Just saw some of this on espn. Greggo is a snitch in the worst way. He's guilty of what he did and he's bringing down Vilma for absolutely no reason. He won't be getting back into the NFL probably ever, why the continuous attempts to put blame on others. Sure Vilma did what he did, but let him battle that out. Greg gets no respect in my book.

 

Completely illogical. I mean I can't stand Williams, but are you saying he should have kept lying? What happens if Goodell finds out the truth? Any shred of hope of getting back into the league is forever gone. At some point even liars realize it's better to tell the truth, deal with it and try to move past it. Because, as most of us learned in our early childhood, lies only compound.

 

I love how you think Greggo should have kept lying so Vilma could keep lying. Remind me to never do business with you.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Thisistheyear

[NoSaint]

 

 

They won't let him use the PUP games as time served. He had surgery electively and is out anyway because of that. * games would be meaningless if he planned on sitting 6 anyway.

 

 

yeah Gregg's a rat. But he's exposed Vilma as a thug and a liar. He's is batlling that out now.

 

if he was suspended starting today, the remainder would count against it. IE 8 games suspended would bring him to week 10 despite the PUP lasting until just about the same week. Injuries dont supersede suspension (im like 90% sure, but should point out im not 100%)

 

 

 

Completely illogical. I mean I can't stand Williams, but are you saying he should have kept lying? What happens if Goodell finds out the truth? Any shred of hope of getting back into the league is forever gone. At some point even liars realize it's better to tell the truth, deal with it and try to move past it. Because, as most of us learned in our early childhood, lies only compound.

 

I love how you think Greggo should have kept lying so Vilma could keep lying. Remind me to never do business with you.

 

greggos statement does throw vilma pretty firmly under the bus while not taking responsibility for an ounce of anything that hasnt already been documented by his own slideshows.

 

he didnt admit to it being a program hes used elsewhere, he claims he just formalized the one that vilma and smith already were running, almost as a favor to them. he admitted to what was in the slides being actual things (kill the head, cartoff/knockouts) - thats it. he doesnt recall anything thats too nasty a reflection on him - the cartoffs and knockouts were added by the players and he doesnt really remember exactly what they were at one point. vilma put the 10k out there but he had nothing at all to do with it and it wasnt part of anything he was in charge of, etc....

 

i cant blame him for putting it out as such - but to portray this as some come to jesus statement where he laid it all on the table would not be accurate. he essentially signed a statement saying "yup, the slideshows were true, but its the players faults and in hindsight i shouldve stopped it"

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint

[NoSaint]

the newest developments this morning (which likely explains the declarations from gregg and cerullo) is that ginsberg served each with a subpeona last week according to espn. still odd that it took this long to get it signed, sealed and delivered - but thats probably a big part of why it happened last week.

 

additionally, fujita will not be present at the conference today as the nfl denied his request to video conference and participate without having to leave cleveland where he is rehabbing and working with the team towards our game on sunday. (finally a bills tie in!)

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoSaint