Have we had enough Brad Smith yet?

[NoSaint]

 

Seriously, I think Chan makes mistakes like all coaches do. He has favorites that I may not like so much, like Tashard Choice and Donald Jones and (lately) Tyler Thigpen... he does stuff that is mind-boggling at times, isolated incidents, like the Dorin Dickerson reverse call. But the way you talk and act toward this one thing, you must genuinely think that Chan Gailey is an absolute feeble-minded moron to not see what you obviously see. There is little other explanation I can think of.

 

I understand people hating the Wildcat, I surely do. I hated it myself the way it evolved. There are only a few select players in the league I would want to run it and if I didn't have one of them on my team I wouldn't even consider it. So I totally understand why some fans are intensely against it. But what I don't understand is why a fan cannot see why it would work, what Smith is capable of (his career average per carry is about 7 yards), why Gailey likes it so much, why a guy like Gailey wants to make it a significant part of his offense. You act like Brad Smith is the devil and cannot run or throw a ball better than Steven Hawking.

 

bravo.

[The Big Cat]

Seriously, I think Chan makes mistakes like all coaches do. He has favorites that I may not like so much, like Tashard Choice and Donald Jones and (lately) Tyler Thigpen... he does stuff that is mind-boggling at times, isolated incidents, like the Dorin Dickerson reverse call. But the way you talk and act toward this one thing, you must genuinely think that Chan Gailey is an absolute feeble-minded moron to not see what you obviously see. There is little other explanation I can think of.

 

I understand people hating the Wildcat, I surely do. I hated it myself the way it evolved. There are only a few select players in the league I would want to run it and if I didn't have one of them on my team I wouldn't even consider it. So I totally understand why some fans are intensely against it. But what I don't understand is why a fan cannot see why it would work, what Smith is capable of (his career average per carry is about 7 yards), why Gailey likes it so much, why a guy like Gailey wants to make it a significant part of his offense. You act like Brad Smith is the devil and cannot run or throw a ball better than Steven Hawking.

 

Mostly agree---

Also don't fully understand the infatuation with Donald Jones. I keep trying to justify it, but it's not easy.

What leads you to believe there's a similar bromance with Thigpen?

And I didn't mind the Dickerson reverse--wasn't DD's fault, play broke down and was very poorly executed. Were you just not a fan of the call in general? I at least thought the call set the precedent that we'd throw any kind of exotic run play at them we pleased.

[The Voice of Truth]

it's only WEEK 2.....can u wait for a few more games to make a judgement call on something? Wasnt Smith limited in Week 1 due to injury anyway?

 

I dont think T-Jax will work in the wildcat because he isnt a threat to run. Brad Smith has shown the ability to make plays running as a kick returner and short yardage specialist. I also think considering the money we are paying T-Jax...he is pretty much our #2 QB once he wraps his head around the playbook. I dont think most teams would make their backup QB run wildcat for fear of injury (minus Tebow of course).

I am factoring in last season as well. While early in last season, he converted on more than a few third and shorts (can't be minimized), his impact fizzled late. Also, nobody seems to mention the fumble he had in week two involving Spiller.

 

However, after more discussion on this thread I adjusted my opinion a bit, which is more in line with your views. I think we should dump Thiggy once T-Jack is up to speed on the offense now. This would leave Brad Smith to fill the roles he is already filling.

 

However, I still think T-Jack would be a good wildcat. He can run despite him not being used this way in other NFL systems. I think the reason they didn't use him this way was because he was their #1 QB so the risk of injury was too great.

 

In the end, I see some value in Smith (more than Thiggy when T-Jack is on the roster). So, I now think we should keep Smith for this year.

Edited September 21, 2012 by The Voice of Truth

[NoSaint]

 

 

Mostly agree---

Also don't fully understand the infatuation with Donald Jones. I keep trying to justify it, but it's not easy.

What leads you to believe there's a similar bromance with Thigpen?

And I didn't mind the Dickerson reverse--wasn't DD's fault, play broke down and was very poorly executed. Were you just not a fan of the call in general? I at least thought the call set the precedent that we'd throw any kind of exotic run play at them we pleased.

 

I don't think he was blaming DD at all, just saying that it was an odd call but outside of a few of those that will happen to any coach, it's hard to imply that gailey generally doesn't get nfl football as would need to be the case to buy what some of his detractors say

[May Day 10]

i didnt like the fact that we need 2 kickers, while 1 kicker on other teams is plenty to kick FGs and also touchbacks. Heck, FBS kickers kick 50 yarders now with increased regularity it seems. Because Lindell is good within 40 yards? Isnt everyone?

 

Didnt like the 4 QB thing. Saw it coming about 1/2 through the preseason when someone asked Gailey about keeping 4 QBs. He stuttered and couldnt figure out where 4 QBs were coming from then explained how Smith is a WR and not a QB so there are 3 QBs. at that moment I knew his mind was made up.

 

Im not a big Smith fan... but I can see the argument for keeping him. T. Jackson shouldnt have been brought on, or Thigpen should have been let go IMO

[BuffBill]

And the guy can't even get a bit of interest from another team in the league and is currently sitting at home unemployed..............

So was Ruvell Martin, so is Shawn Merriman, and many, many others. Wait until injuries start happening. Smith is the highest paid 5th or 6th receiver in the NFL, since he has shown that is the only position he can even be average in. He is terrible returning kicks, he has never once, ran anywhere but straight ahead until the first guy hits him. 9 out of 10 Wildcat plays with him are either no gains or losses. He has one pass attempt as a Buffalo Bill and that was a pathetically thrown ball that was intercepted. Edited September 21, 2012 by BuffBill

[Kelly the Dog]

i didnt like the fact that we need 2 kickers, while 1 kicker on other teams is plenty to kick FGs and also touchbacks. Heck, FBS kickers kick 50 yarders now with increased regularity it seems. Because Lindell is good within 40 yards? Isnt everyone?

 

Didnt like the 4 QB thing. Saw it coming about 1/2 through the preseason when someone asked Gailey about keeping 4 QBs. He stuttered and couldnt figure out where 4 QBs were coming from then explained how Smith is a WR and not a QB so there are 3 QBs. at that moment I knew his mind was made up.

 

Im not a big Smith fan... but I can see the argument for keeping him. T. Jackson shouldnt have been brought on, or Thigpen should have been let go IMO

Jackson is not ready yet, and it's a lot harder and far, far more time consuming for a new QB to learn a new system during a season as opposed to if he came in at the beginning of training camp. I still see Thigpen being released as soon as Jackson has a decent grip on the playbook, and Smith would then be the 3rd QB, especially if there were to be an injury to a player that would keep him out a couple games and yet we didn't want to IR him.

 

Mostly agree---

Also don't fully understand the infatuation with Donald Jones. I keep trying to justify it, but it's not easy.

What leads you to believe there's a similar bromance with Thigpen?

And I didn't mind the Dickerson reverse--wasn't DD's fault, play broke down and was very poorly executed. Were you just not a fan of the call in general? I at least thought the call set the precedent that we'd throw any kind of exotic run play at them we pleased.

There was just no reason to call a reverse like that, to a player who hasn't had his hands on the ball, when the offense is rolling. Gailey himself was making jokes about it this week for being such a terrible call. Granted, that is the kind of play that if it works it's genius, and if it doesn't it's goat. But there was simply no reason to get cute at that point in time at that spot on the field. Amazing that I think we scored on the very next play though.

 

Gailey clearly likes Thigpen. They basically signed him to be the back-up immediately and without working him out. Galey just seems that he has lost confidence in TT, and I assume Nix has even more, evidenced by the Young experiment and Jackson trade the second Young tanked and Jackson became available. I just think TT is cut in about two weeks. I thought Jackson would be further along by now but apparently he is not.

[BuffBill]

Jackson is not ready yet, and it's a lot harder and far, far more time consuming for a new QB to learn a new system during a season as opposed to if he came in at the beginning of training camp. I still see Thigpen being released as soon as Jackson has a decent grip on the playbook, and Smith would then be the 3rd QB, especially if there were to be an injury to a player that would keep him out a couple games and yet we didn't want to IR him.

 

 

There was just no reason to call a reverse like that, to a player who hasn't had his hands on the ball, when the offense is rolling. Gailey himself was making jokes about it this week for being such a terrible call. Granted, that is the kind of play that if it works it's genius, and if it doesn't it's goat. But there was simply no reason to get cute at that point in time at that spot on the field. Amazing that I think we scored on the very next play though.

 

Gailey clearly likes Thigpen. They basically signed him to be the back-up immediately and without working him out. Galey just seems that he has lost confidence in TT, and I assume Nix has even more, evidenced by the Young experiment and Jackson trade the second Young tanked and Jackson became available. I just think TT is cut in about two weeks. I thought Jackson would be further along by now but apparently he is not.

It seems to me that using the Wildcat is supposed to help plays develop quicker and cut out the middle man (the QB), but on this team seems like they take longer to develop then the regular plays with Fitz in there? Not to mention, you can pretty much know ahead of time where the ball is going with the Bills' Wildcat offense. Gailey likes Thigpen because he has a history with him in K.C., which is the same reason they brought in Merriman (Nix Connection) and Choice (Gailey connection at GA Tech). Edited September 21, 2012 by BuffBill

[FanofFredJackson]

Until he throws out of the wildcat, it's not going to be very effective - the gains we saw yesterday could have come from a well-executed running play from a more standard set. I think the wildcat would be more effective if Fredex took the snap with Spiller moving -- that's a tougher play to defense, and Fred has shown he can throw some (remember his TD pass to Evans a couple years ago?)

 

Must have been a play before Galley arrived in Buffalo

[Mr. WEO]

Seriously, I think Chan makes mistakes like all coaches do. He has favorites that I may not like so much, like Tashard Choice and Donald Jones and (lately) Tyler Thigpen... he does stuff that is mind-boggling at times, isolated incidents, like the Dorin Dickerson reverse call. But the way you talk and act toward this one thing, you must genuinely think that Chan Gailey is an absolute feeble-minded moron to not see what you obviously see. There is little other explanation I can think of.

 

I understand people hating the Wildcat, I surely do. I hated it myself the way it evolved. There are only a few select players in the league I would want to run it and if I didn't have one of them on my team I wouldn't even consider it. So I totally understand why some fans are intensely against it. But what I don't understand is why a fan cannot see why it would work, what Smith is capable of (his career average per carry is about 7 yards), why Gailey likes it so much, why a guy like Gailey wants to make it a significant part of his offense. You act like Brad Smith is the devil and cannot run or throw a ball better than Steven Hawking.

 

His average with the Bills is all that matters--and it's 4.2 yards per carry. It would be far more productive to hand the ball to CJ (or Fitz to just run, for that matter) than Smith.

 

Steven Hawking has only one less pass attempt than Smith has as a Buffalo Bill--and the former has no ints. And with Hawking in the wildcat, it would be less predictable for the defense than with Smith.

[The Big Cat]

Jackson is not ready yet, and it's a lot harder and far, far more time consuming for a new QB to learn a new system during a season as opposed to if he came in at the beginning of training camp. I still see Thigpen being released as soon as Jackson has a decent grip on the playbook, and Smith would then be the 3rd QB, especially if there were to be an injury to a player that would keep him out a couple games and yet we didn't want to IR him.

 

 

There was just no reason to call a reverse like that, to a player who hasn't had his hands on the ball, when the offense is rolling. Gailey himself was making jokes about it this week for being such a terrible call. Granted, that is the kind of play that if it works it's genius, and if it doesn't it's goat. But there was simply no reason to get cute at that point in time at that spot on the field. Amazing that I think we scored on the very next play though.

 

Gailey clearly likes Thigpen. They basically signed him to be the back-up immediately and without working him out. Galey just seems that he has lost confidence in TT, and I assume Nix has even more, evidenced by the Young experiment and Jackson trade the second Young tanked and Jackson became available. I just think TT is cut in about two weeks. I thought Jackson would be further along by now but apparently he is not.

 

Re: the reverse--I mean you say so yourself, if it works, he's a genius. He had a 50/50 shot of making the Chefs looks silly, and we whiffed. Whatever, there was no turnover, and we punched it in eventually, anyway.

[uncle flap]

It seems to me that using the Wildcat is supposed to help plays develop quicker and cut out the middle man (the QB), but on this team seems like they take longer to develop then the regular plays with Fitz in there? Not to mention, you can pretty much know ahead of time where the ball is going with the Bills' Wildcat offense.

 

No, the complete opposite is true.

 

Maybe you don't like the wildcat so much because you don't understand it.

 

IMO, there are two valid arguments against using the wildcat: 1. The team doesn't have the personell, and 2. The package is proven to be ineffective over time (which would probably mean that the first argument is true).

 

On the first point, it seems to me that the Bills do have the personell. You or anyone would be hard pressed to convince me otherwise, though this point is certainly debatable.

 

On the second point, the Bills have not had a large enough sample to deem it ineffective. In fact, I'd argue if one looks at the production, it has shown to be pretty damn productive for the Bills, but again we are looking at a rather small sample size. I don't know if people are expecting every run to be 40 yards or a TD or something, but to act if there is some serious detriment to running the wildcat 5 or 6 snaps a game seems foolish to me, considering the success we've seen. Then again, it wouldn't be the first time I've felt many posters here aren't watching the same games I am.

[Kelly the Dog]

His average with the Bills is all that matters--and it's 4.2 yards per carry. It would be far more productive to hand the ball to CJ (or Fitz to just run, for that matter) than Smith.

 

That is untrue. Any reasonable person and football fan (granted, that excludes you) would know that since there is no chance that Smith will throw, and in a run formation against a run defense, 4.2 yards per carry is harder to attain than the 5 yards per carry that Fred and CJ have out of predominantly pass formations against pass defenses. It's a fabulous average in fact.

[Mr. WEO]

That is untrue. Any reasonable person and football fan (granted, that excludes you) would know that since there is no chance that Smith will throw, and in a run formation against a run defense, 4.2 yards per carry is harder to attain than the 5 yards per carry that Fred and CJ have out of predominantly pass formations against pass defenses. It's a fabulous average in fact.

 

Then why run the WC? And you are claiming that the majority of CJ and Freddie's carries were against pass formations? And that the Bills are better off running the WC against "run defenses"?

 

CJ's averaging over 10 a carry, as you knew.

[Kelly the Dog]

Then why run the WC? And you are claiming that the majority of CJ and Freddie's carries were against pass formations? And that the Bills are better off running the WC against "run defenses"?

 

CJ's averaging over 10 a carry, as you knew.

Yes and Yes. When the Bills are in the Wildcat, teams defense the Wildcat, and try to stop the run. Most of CJ and Freddies carries come out of the spread formation, with 5-6 DBs in the game and not 3-4 LBs. Both of Spillers best runs last week, in case you weren't watching, were on passing downs, in pass formations against pass defenses. The 38 yarder, for instance, came with 6 KC DBs in the game, and the extra DB in was the guy who whiffed at the line on Spiller which allowed him to break into the secondary. The 17 yard TD was a draw play on 2-10.

[Mr. WEO]

Yes and Yes. When the Bills are in the Wildcat, teams defense the Wildcat, and try to stop the run. Most of CJ and Freddies carries come out of the spread formation, with 5-6 DBs in the game and not 3-4 LBs. Both of Spillers best runs last week, in case you weren't watching, were on passing downs, in pass formations against pass defenses. The 38 yarder, for instance, came with 6 KC DBs in the game, and the extra DB in was the guy who whiffed at the line on Spiller which allowed him to break into the secondary. The 17 yard TD was a draw play on 2-10.

 

And the rest of CJ's runs this season? All against pass defenses you say?

[wnyBacker]

Play him at wide receiver...that's we're we need help and may also be his best hidden trait

[QCity]

9 out of 10 Wildcat plays with him are either no gains or losses.

 

Again, what games are you watching?

[mrags]

 

Seriously, I think Chan makes mistakes like all coaches do. He has favorites that I may not like so much, like Tashard Choice and Donald Jones and (lately) Tyler Thigpen... he does stuff that is mind-boggling at times, isolated incidents, like the Dorin Dickerson reverse call. But the way you talk and act toward this one thing, you must genuinely think that Chan Gailey is an absolute feeble-minded moron to not see what you obviously see. There is little other explanation I can think of.

 

I understand people hating the Wildcat, I surely do. I hated it myself the way it evolved. There are only a few select players in the league I would want to run it and if I didn't have one of them on my team I wouldn't even consider it. So I totally understand why some fans are intensely against it. But what I don't understand is why a fan cannot see why it would work, what Smith is capable of (his career average per carry is about 7 yards), why Gailey likes it so much, why a guy like Gailey wants to make it a significant part of his offense. You act like Brad Smith is the devil and cannot run or throw a ball better than Steven Hawking.

I have always respected the opinion of others although sometimes I come off like I don't. So with that said, I respect your hope that BS and the WC get going. After all, it's the Bills were talking about and anything they do that helps them, I'm all for it. I DID trust Gailey for over a year and a half, but this past half year (roughly 10-12 games) has made me do some serious head scratching with his play calls. I also did some serious head scratching when we even picked up BS in the first place. Sure, like many others here, I totally get the importance of having a guy that can play anywhere from 2-4 different positions. But... And this is a big but... I seriously doubt his ability to play any one of those positions well enough to even be a 4th or 5th option. His WR potential has me intrigued and personally I wouldn't mind him playing more of it.

Just like how you can ask why I hate him and the WC so much, I'll just flip it and ask why you love it so much. It has been dissapointing at best, not just with the Bills but around the league (minus 1-2 games when the Dolphins broke it out). It doesn't fool anyone. Teams and defenses know what's coming. A run. Usually up the middle. It usually picks up 2-3 yards, many times for a first down. And this is the point where all the WC fans really start screaming "it produced --- first downs". Ya, so freaking what?!? It still doesn't male sense considering just about any run play out of your normal formation would produce just the same numbers if the WC never existed. I really dont care because it's not my money, but it is an absolute waste to pay a guy $4m for a handful of plays a year. We barely pay Fred Jackson that much. That IMO is an absolute joke. I would never take a carry away from FJ or CJ and thier potential to take it to the house on every play for this chump stain. Lee can go too. He's also an absolute waste of space IMO. Hasn't done anything with our QBs to this point and he sure as hell hasn't done anything for our WC offense. The day the WC wins us a big game all by itself, I will get down on my knees and pray to the Brad Smith gods. Until that happens I'll be screaming from mountain tops how stupid it is and how right I am.

 

I'll also male a friendly bet with anyone that Brad Smith will not be on the 2013 Buffalo Bills. Not unless he emerges as a recieving threat this season.

[Kelly the Dog]

And the rest of CJ's runs this season? All against pass defenses you say?

No. That is why I used the word "most". I tried to keep it easy for you, using one syllable common usage words. But apparently that doesn't work either.