PromoTheRobot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 But does Toronto actually sell out all thier games too? Would they if they had more seats like real NFL stadiums? Neither would L.A. Ask the NFL if they care? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Its very short sighted to suggest the NFL looks at merely how many games are blacked out when deciding whether or not to move a team/allow them to relocate. I believe the decision has been made for awhile and the league isnt going to do anything to get in the way of an owner. If you truly believe that the fans of this team are being tested and evaluated for worthiness, then the joke is on you. The Bills are fine and make plenty of money without this. I don't understand your response to my post. You might have misread it. Go back and re-read it. I think you are agreeing with me???? My point is very simple. If a winning bidder for the team wants to move it it will be moved. I agree that the league is not going to interfere with the desire of the current owner, and for that matter of the owner who ends up with the team. PTR's posts regarding selling out and not selling end of the season games are irrelevant regarding where the team eventually resides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 ^^^ I meant it as an agreement/support. I failed to capture all the quotes, so it looked like I was criticizing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) ^^^ I meant it as an agreement/support. I failed to capture all the quotes, so it looked like I was criticizing you. Now I understand. You had me confused. In addition, a local developer who knows a lot about financing big projects wrote an opinion how it wouldn't be too difficult to finance a stadium remodeling project. That isn't the challenge. No public financing scheme is going to work unless the owner commits to staying for an extended period of time. The current owner is adament about not making a committment to do so. Yet Wilson apologists insist that the main problem associated with retaining the franchise in the region has to do with the fans. That is an absurdity multiplied many times over. http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120917/OPINION/120919406/two-bills-drive Edited September 17, 2012 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Now I understand. You had me confused. In addition, a local developer who knows a lot about financing big projects wrote an opinion how it wouldn't be too difficult to finance a stadium remodeling project. That isn't the challenge. No public financing scheme is going to work unless the owner commits to staying for an extended period of time. The current owner is adament about not making a committment to do so. Yet Wilson apologists insist that the main problem associated with retaining the franchise in the region has to do with the fans. That is an absurdity multiplied many times over. http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive i read that, isnt ironic that wilson has cried poor mouth, yet will not sell the team. he has played the area, and right or wrong, we are the victims because of our passion for the bills.. obviously there are numerous threads about wilson and his actions over the years and i dont want to re-hash rehashed stuff.. but the man is greedy.. not saying he owes us anything, but that is plain as day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive This makes way too much sense for it to ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 LOL - I know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 . . . At the end of the day, when Ralph goes, chances are any lease deals, or Toronto deals will be eliminated . . . Just curious - - how do you envision that happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Gaughan predicts a 2 1 2 1 2 type of agreement over five years. Yeah it sucks, but if it helps to keep the Bills here as a increased revenue source for a potential new owners.... I know, B, but to get robbed of those games is so disappointing to Bills fans. I mean, many Torontonians will go to the game because it is the NFL...but do they care? That's what stinks. BTW, incase you didn't know Brawndo has what plants crave. It has electrolytes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I don't understand your response to my post. You might have misread it. Go back and re-read it. I think you are agreeing with me???? My point is very simple. If a winning bidder for the team wants to move it it will be moved. I agree that the league is not going to interfere with the desire of the current owner, and for that matter of the owner who ends up with the team. PTR's posts regarding selling out and not selling end of the season games are irrelevant regarding where the team eventually resides. the ONLY reason the NFL would allow a relocation is due to lack of attendance.....any new owner needs the approval of the other owners to move. Now I understand. You had me confused. In addition, a local developer who knows a lot about financing big projects wrote an opinion how it wouldn't be too difficult to finance a stadium remodeling project. That isn't the challenge. No public financing scheme is going to work unless the owner commits to staying for an extended period of time. The current owner is adament about not making a committment to do so. Yet Wilson apologists insist that the main problem associated with retaining the franchise in the region has to do with the fans. That is an absurdity multiplied many times over. http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive outstanding solution.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 i read that, isnt ironic that wilson has cried poor mouth, yet will not sell the team. he has played the area, and right or wrong, we are the victims because of our passion for the bills.. obviously there are numerous threads about wilson and his actions over the years and i dont want to re-hash rehashed stuff.. but the man is greedy.. not saying he owes us anything, but that is plain as day.. You have followed the franchise for a long time, as I have. Ralph is simply being Ralph. To him the franchise is primarily a business venture. He has little affiliation with the region. He has little appreciation for the fans and the public entities that have subsidized him in his very lucrative business venture. What irritates me more than the out of town owner (who is what he is) are those who continue to be apologists for this greedy man and blame the fanbase for the possible departure of this historic franchise. Even in death no amount is ever enough when there is an opportunity to get more. It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Do you believe that if the Bills sell every out home game at the Ralph months in advance that it will be a factor as to whether the owner will or will not auction off the team to the highest bidder? Let's not get silly here. The Bills will stay in the region after Ralph passes if the highest bidder for the team wants to keep it here. If the winning bidder wants to move the franchise it will be moved. Does the owner have the ability to ensure that the team will stay in the region after he passes? Absolutely, if he wants that to happen it would happen.. But that is not the case. Blaming the fans for what might happen is lame. The owner is driving the bus on this issue. Everything else is inconsquential. I don't completely disagree with Promo...the NFL is not a very sentimental business....but I am sick of fans being blamed for the eventual demise... the notion that Ralph Wilson's role in this whole thing is inconsequential is maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 the ONLY reason the NFL would allow a relocation is due to lack of attendance.....any new owner needs the approval of the other owners to move. outstanding solution.... Don't you think the other owners would approve a move from Buffalo to a larger TV market? They then go to the networks asking for more money. When was the last time owners voted against a franchise moving? Browns didn't move because lack of attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I don't completely disagree with Promo...the NFL is not a very sentimental business....but I am sick of fans being blamed for the eventual demise... the notion that Ralph Wilson's role in this whole thing is inconsequential is maddening. Oh I agree that Ralph could do more to ensure the team staying, but he's not doing that. Can't change that. So what's next? Show support for the Bills. Sell out every game. Make people believe it would be a crime to move the Bills. A half-empty RWS doesn't help the cause. So when L.A. comes calling, the media says "Buffalo doesn't support the Bills. No big deal." PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You have followed the franchise for a long time, as I have. Ralph is simply being Ralph. To him the franchise is primarily a business venture. He has little affiliation with the region. He has little appreciation for the fans and the public entities that have subsidized him in his very lucrative business venture. What irritates me more than the out of town owner (who is what he is) are those who continue to be apologists for this greedy man and blame the fanbase for the possible departure of this historic franchise. Even in death no amount is ever enough when there is an opportunity to get more. It's a shame. i know, i have been with the team from the beginning, going to games with my father, anyway, lots on here did not live thru the city ponying up for 7200 hundred seats in 1965, ralph threatening to move to seattle in 1969, i know, he stayed, that is what the apologists say, but again, like you say, when is enough enough for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just curious - - how do you envision that happening? Because when Ralph dies, and a new owner takes over, he/she/they will most likely make sure they get what they want when they purchase the team. If they want to stay in Buffalo then it won't be any issue. If they want to move to Toronto or to LA, chances are they will find a way to do it. Either they buy out any contract they don't want. If Ralph and the Bills write it into the next contract that there's a $500M fee for opting out of any lease deals then the new owner will just make that a part of thier invested money. Of course the NFL owners won't object since it's more money in everyones pocket and the NFL will always listen to the Snyders/Jones/Krafts when it comes to that part. However if Jim or anyone else wanted to keep them here the other owners don't really have much of a say besides approving the group or person buying the team. It's pretty obvious that if Jim has a group in place and he is sure the team isn't going anywhere then he probabaly has enough backing that the other owners wouldn't be able to deny them nor would it be a good move to deny a HOF QB who played for the team he's trying to buy and save. At the end of the day, like I said, we don't have a say in all of it regardless. Maybe we should just all STFU and enjoy the ride. Sometimes I don't understand people. Of you complain that it will sick if and when we lose the team, then you should be supporting them as much as possible to show your support no matter what. I go to every game. No matter what time of year. Playoffs or not. Snow or not. Never leave early, win or lose. It was a joke that yesterday we had only 25% or less of the fans there at the very end because they wanted to get an early jump on traffic. Absolute joke but that's another thread. I'll get off my soapbox now. My final thoughts, are enjoy them well we have them. Maybe they move, maybe they don't. No point complaining about it over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 outstanding solution.... 1. Apart from the fact that a self-described "onerous penalty" for breaking a contract is totally unenforceable in court, it's great! 2. Ralph only got the right to put his name on the stadium because the existing 15 year lease granted stadium naming rights to the Bills during its 15 year term. When the existing lease expires, those naming rights revert back to the County, which owns the stadium and land. When the parties negotiate the new 1 year lease, the County should retain the stadium naming rights, and force Wilson to take his name off the stadium. Wonder how Ralph would feel about having to visit the new wing of the football hall of fame to see his name on a football building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Because when Ralph dies, and a new owner takes over, he/she/they will most likely make sure they get what they want when they purchase the team. If they want to stay in Buffalo then it won't be any issue. If they want to move to Toronto or to LA, chances are they will find a way to do it. Either they buy out any contract they don't want. If Ralph and the Bills write it into the next contract that there's a $500M fee for opting out of any lease deals then the new owner will just make that a part of thier invested money. Of course the NFL owners won't object since it's more money in everyones pocket and the NFL will always listen to the Snyders/Jones/Krafts when it comes to that part. However if Jim or anyone else wanted to keep them here the other owners don't really have much of a say besides approving the group or person buying the team. It's pretty obvious that if Jim has a group in place and he is sure the team isn't going anywhere then he probabaly has enough backing that the other owners wouldn't be able to deny them nor would it be a good move to deny a HOF QB who played for the team he's trying to buy and save. At the end of the day, like I said, we don't have a say in all of it regardless. Maybe we should just all STFU and enjoy the ride. Sometimes I don't understand people. Of you complain that it will sick if and when we lose the team, then you should be supporting them as much as possible to show your support no matter what. I go to every game. No matter what time of year. Playoffs or not. Snow or not. Never leave early, win or lose. It was a joke that yesterday we had only 25% or less of the fans there at the very end because they wanted to get an early jump on traffic. Absolute joke but that's another thread. I'll get off my soapbox now. My final thoughts, are enjoy them well we have them. Maybe they move, maybe they don't. No point complaining about it over and over again. you know, you make valid points, but think about what you are saying, fans leaving early, whatever, but why should we have to have this discussion? i know we , as a fan base are scared sh-tless that we may loss the team.. but we dont deserve the angst.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Oh I agree that Ralph could do more to ensure the team staying, but he's not doing that. Can't change that. So what's next? Show support for the Bills. Sell out every game. Make people believe it would be a crime to move the Bills. A half-empty RWS doesn't help the cause. So when L.A. comes calling, the media says "Buffalo doesn't support the Bills. No big deal." PTR I didn't agree with you at first, but it's starting to make sense. "Make people believe it would be a crime to move the Bills." Given Ralph's age, a few years of rabid support for a losing franchise tells the NFL it better think twice before letting the Bills move. On the other hand, leaving tons of empty seats certainly can't help the matter. It sucks. Ralph's got us where he wants us. But he's not going to be around forever and there's a chance we could end up with local ownership if the cards play out just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I blame it on hot chicks. You see them at the September games, but not at the December games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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