Fire David Lee!!!

[ajzepp]

 

 

 

 

Neither do 28 year olds out of arena league who were bagging groceries the year before. Wait Kurt Warner did.

 

Neither do 7th round draft picks who didn't even start in college. Wait Tom Brady did.

 

Rich Gannon made 4 out of 6 pro bowls late in his career after being cut and traded by multiple teams early in his career. Certainly a journeyman.

 

Joe Theisman had to go through the Canadian league and then when he made it into the NFL it took him 4 seasons to become the starter of the Redskins. Another elite journeyman.

 

Matt Schaub. Rode the pine for 3 years.

 

Get your facts straight partner. I just owned you.

 

[The Voice of Truth]

Brady started his last two years at Michigan and was a sixth round pick.

 

When speaking about your obvious limited IQ, I did not use "you're".

 

Schaub rode the pine for the Falcons, not the Texans.

 

Why bring up Theismann? Why not mention Y.A. Tittle as well?

 

If you think Pickspatrick will ever be "elite", your (note spelling) football knowledge is rather limited. There is not a person outside Bills' fans who believes this. Accept it and hope he's shackled in favor of the run game for the remainder of the season.

 

I won't call you "partner" or say you were "owned".

Haha. I guess I should have taken a bit more time with my grammar and exact fact checking when making such a strong post. I do not think Pickspatrick will ever be elite at this point. You clearly did not read the whole thread. My point still stands that there have been journeyman QBs that become elite. Also, I never said he rode the pine for the Texans. What's your point?

 

Does anyone else laugh when someone posts "Get your facts straight partner. I just owned you" in a post where he gets basic facts wrong?

Haha again. Yeah I should have exactly checked my facts here but my point still stands and is valid.

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

Can we fire Fitzpathetic instead?

[ajzepp]

Yeah I should have exactly checked my facts here but my point still stands and is valid.

 

It's really not....not at all. Brady was already addressed. Warner was successful from the time he started in the arena league, and when he came to the NFL he became successful here. Nothing like Fitzy's situation. Theismann, again, was successful in Canada before coming here, and when given his chance in the NFL he was successful. Nothing like Fitzy. Schaub was a draft pick by Atlanta who was the back-up to Vick...he was not a journeyman. Atlanta knew what they had and traded him to the Texans for a 2nd round pick. Not pertinent to Fitzy. The only example you gave that is similar to Fitzy is Rich Gannon...

[The Voice of Truth]

The only example you gave that is similar to Fitzy is Rich Gannon...

Ok, so my point is valid. And just because the other players didn't take EXACTLY the same journey as Fitz does not make the point invalid. He made a statement that journeymen QBs NEVER become elite in the NFL. I listed a number of QBs who initially were seen as starter material and were rejected by the NFL because they lacked potential. They had to take a different road to prove themselves and it took them years to finally shine. Hell, coming from the arena league means that NFL teams wouldn't even take you as a backup, like Fitz. They are all journeyman and you said it yourself, Gannon fits the bill exactly. That makes my point valid in itself.

Edited September 17, 2012 by The Voice of Truth

[Malazan]

Haha. I guess I should have taken a bit more time with my grammar and exact fact checking when making such a strong post. I do not think Pickspatrick will ever be elite at this point. You clearly did not read the whole thread. My point still stands that there have been journeyman QBs that become elite. Also, I never said he rode the pine for the Texans. What's your point?

 

 

Haha again. Yeah I should have exactly checked my facts here but my point still stands and is valid.

 

So what you're saying is that you're consistently wrong, but we should believe you on this point?

 

When is obvious troll going to be banned?

[ajzepp]

Ok, so my point is valid. And just because the other players didn't take EXACTLY the same journey as Fitz does not make the point invalid. He made a statement that journeymen QBs NEVER become elite in the NFL. I listed a number of QBs who initially were seen as starter material and were rejected by the NFL because they lacked potential. They had to take a different road to prove themselves and it took them years to finally shine. Hell, coming from the arena league means that NFL teams wouldn't even take you as a backup, like Fitz. They are all journeyman and you said it yourself, Gannon fits the bill exactly. That makes my point valid in itself.

 

It didn't take them years to finally shine....that's exactly my point....they shined IMMEDIATELY. Warner played for Arena League championships and Theismann played for Grey Cups. Then they came to the NFL and won super bowls. Fitzy had a decent year in 2010. That's pretty much all he has on his resume, hence the reason why the Rams didn't give a crap about him and neither did the Bengals. And the way he's playing, Bills fans are going to be giving far less of a crap in short order, including me.

 

So if you're excited to have ONE example of "journeyman to success" over the past 40 years that even remotely resembles Fitzy, then I hope someone gives you a cookie. But I hope you won't mind if I don't exactly feel owned.

[The Voice of Truth]

So what you're saying is that you're consistently wrong, but we should believe you on this point?

 

When is obvious troll going to be banned?

What are you talking about with "troll" firstly. I made a thread that is very valid about the Bills and the coaching of Fitzpatrick. I only reponded strongly when others made offensive statements to me. Why would I be banned?

 

Plus this thread is getting incedibly off topic. I started the post about how David Lee's work with Ryan Fitzpatrick has been very ineffective and has hurt Fitz overall. Now we're talking about journeymen QBs and if Fitz is elite, which by the way I don't think he is.

It didn't take them years to finally shine....that's exactly my point....they shined IMMEDIATELY. Warner played for Arena League championships and Theismann played for Grey Cups. Then they came to the NFL and won super bowls. Fitzy had a decent year in 2010. That's pretty much all he has on his resume, hence the reason why the Rams didn't give a crap about him and neither did the Bengals. And the way he's playing, Bills fans are going to be giving far less of a crap in short order, including me.

 

So if you're excited to have ONE example of "journeyman to success" over the past 40 years that even remotely resembles Fitzy, then I hope someone gives you a cookie. But I hope you won't mind if I don't exactly feel owned.

Ok, so you admit that your statement about journeymen QBs NEVER becoming elite was incorrect. Thank you.

 

Oh by the way, my point about 11 football weeks ago when Fitz seemingly was clicking on all cylinders wasn't just notcied by me. It was noticed by an NFL organization and GM in the Buffalo Bills. They gave him a 6 year $59 million dollar contract if you missed that. I don't think I was exactly delusional in thinking Fitz might, just might have the potential to be elite at that time. He was also getting quite a bit of national coverage and buzz. I never said I was confident that he would be elite or that I felt strongly he would be elite at that time. But yeah, the thought crossed my mind at that point and that was the extent of it. Now we're into all this journeymen QB stuff. And yes I did prove you wrong on that. I'm moving on from this argument.

 

I started out saying that Fitz did not play well and put some of that blame on David Lee. If anyone wants to converse about that, then feel free. I've got to hit the hay.

[ajzepp]

Yeah, i pretty much figured you for a "right fighter"....

 

And by the way, Fitz was sucking well before Coach Lee got here.

[Nuncha]

Fritz's first "pass" attempt to Chandler say's it all about his so called mechanics, accuracy and most of all his "smarts". How many more times will we see that krap again this year from the Harvard genius?

 

I'm sure we will see it plenty - his mechanics/accuracy are worse than ever. We would have slaughtered KC if we had a QB. Missing a wide open receiver to end the first drive of a game is painful to watch.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Every QB is going to have both bad and pedestrian games. When your QB is bad, you generally lose, as we did last week. This week Fitz was pedestrian, and we won big. Fitz will have his great games this year, and we'll win most of those. It's how we respond in the games like today that will define us.

[cage]

Firing Lee is extreme, but messing with his mechanics is what I thought of when I saw the bounce pass to Chandler....

 

The bounce pass to Chandler was tipped

 

Does anyone else laugh when someone posts "Get your facts straight partner. I just owned you" in a post where he gets basic facts wrong?

 

It came from Mitt Romney and he approves this message

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

I'm sure we will see it plenty - his mechanics/accuracy are worse than ever. We would have slaughtered KC if we had a QB. Missing a wide open receiver to end the first drive of a game is painful to watch.

 

But we won as many have said. Let's not point out Fitz's throwing motion is beyond jacked up. It's like lee has some sort of shock collar on Fitz and he uses it mid throw when fitz's shoulder or arm are not at the right angle kinda like a golfer......GO BUFF....let's get this lee Fitz thing under control

[Mike in Syracuse]

I'm going to draw a parallel between what Fitz is going and what Tiger Woods went through. And no, I'm not comparing the greatest golfer of the last 20 years with Fitz. This is purely a "mechanics" discussion.

 

When you change mechanics is just doesn't happen overnight, very often there will be regression. Fitz used to just rear back and fire the ball. Some of his mechanics made him less accurate than he should be. Lee comes in and starts changing his footwork, his throwing mechanic etc. So instead of rearing back and firing the ball, Fitz is now thinking about things like where his feet are, where his elbow is etc. You simply can't perform athletically if you're thinking about mechanics. Just look at Tebow and how they tried to change his motion. After thousands of reps, he reverts back to his college motion. Sometimes when making a mechanical change it's difficult to get out of your own way.

 

What I saw yesterday wasn't a QB who was struggling with his throwing, I saw a QB who was almost afraid to throw the ball.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Mike in Syracuse

[The Voice of Truth]

But we won as many have said. Let's not point out Fitz's throwing motion is beyond jacked up. It's like lee has some sort of shock collar on Fitz and he uses it mid throw when fitz's shoulder or arm are not at the right angle kinda like a golfer......GO BUFF....let's get this lee Fitz thing under control

Haha. I got a good kick out of the shock collar mid throw.

 

I'm going to draw a parallel between what Fitz is going and what Tiger Woods went through. And no, I'm not comparing the greatest golfer of the last 20 years with Fitz. This is purely a "mechanics" discussion.

 

When you change mechanics is just doesn't happen overnight, very often there will be regression. Fitz used to just rear back and fire the ball. Some of his mechanics made him less accurate than he should be. Lee comes in and starts changing his footwork, his throwing mechanic etc. So instead of rearing back and firing the ball, Fitz is now thinking about things like where his feet are, where his elbow is etc. You simply can't perform athletically if you're thinking about mechanics. Just look at Tebow and how they tried to change his motion. After thousands of reps, he reverts back to his college motion. Sometimes when making a mechanical change it's difficult to get out of your own way.

 

What I saw yesterday wasn't a QB who was struggling with his throwing, I saw a QB who was almost afraid to throw the ball.

I like the golf comparison. Being a golfer, that analogy actually crossed my mind as well. I hope his mechanics do end up imroving under Lee and he gets better than he was before, but I just don't see it at this point. I'll cross my fingers though that his accuracy and consistency will go up soon.

[White Linen]

I knew this stupid thread was started by someone with less than 100 posts before I even opened it.

 

Another knuckle-dragger to put on ignore.

 

How did you bipass having to go through 100 posts? What's an acceptable amount of posts for you to take an OP seriously?

[BuffBill]

David Lee was brought in and touted as a QB mechanics guru who would help Fitz's accuracy and consistency. Well, we've seen the result of his tutelage. Fitz has been more inaccurate and inconsistent than we have ever seen. He seems to lack confidence completely sometimes when he is throwing.

 

It is clear to me at this point that Fitz is never going to be an elite quarterback. I don't even think there is potential to get into the 2nd tier of guys like Flacco or Ryan. He is in his thirties. It is not the time to be messing with his throwing motion and mechanics. If he has to go out there and mentally focus on mechanics, then we have ourselves a problem. Am I saying he should stop developing? No. However, stick with the throwing motion that he is comfortable with and get the most out of him as you can. This offseason, be certain to exhaust all options to pick up a young potentially elite QB. As a matter of fact make sure you do it! Even if it means giving things up. Begin developing him under Fitz for one year (barring Fitz is good enough to even stick around).

 

In the mean time, fire David Lee! He really isn't helping anything. I want to see some heads roll for this quarterback play.

 

Depending on how good the defense actually is, I think the Bills might have a shot at being decent even with Fitz as more of a game manager. We cannot depend on Fitz throwing 3 TDs and 300 yards for wins. Play to our strengths for now and get a freaking elite QB no matter what this offseason!

Reaching for excuses for Fitz's terrible play aren't we? Fitz is working his way out of Buffalo, no matter what confidence Chan Gailey says to the press. He has been terrible both games, and was deservedly booed over and over in the stadium yesterday. I like Fitz, but he will never be a winning caliber QB in the NFL. His passes were terrible, just terrible. His decisions were hideous. I like the guy, but he has the smarts to go have a successful career in something else besides the NFL-maybe the UFL. To blame his inability on a quarterback coach is a complete and utterly ridiculous joke.

 

I'm going to draw a parallel between what Fitz is going and what Tiger Woods went through. And no, I'm not comparing the greatest golfer of the last 20 years with Fitz. This is purely a "mechanics" discussion.

 

When you change mechanics is just doesn't happen overnight, very often there will be regression. Fitz used to just rear back and fire the ball. Some of his mechanics made him less accurate than he should be. Lee comes in and starts changing his footwork, his throwing mechanic etc. So instead of rearing back and firing the ball, Fitz is now thinking about things like where his feet are, where his elbow is etc. You simply can't perform athletically if you're thinking about mechanics. Just look at Tebow and how they tried to change his motion. After thousands of reps, he reverts back to his college motion. Sometimes when making a mechanical change it's difficult to get out of your own way.

 

What I saw yesterday wasn't a QB who was struggling with his throwing, I saw a QB who was almost afraid to throw the ball.

Mechanics aren't the only problem he is having, his poor decisions are just as big if not even a bigger problem then the mechanics. It also seems like he is losing some of his confidence too.

[thewildrabbit]

I'm not in favor of sacrificing a year to a 30 year old quarterback so MAYBE he will improve a little bit. I hope it does iumprove him soon but even before any changes to his mechanics he lit it up for like 7 weeks in a row when we went 5-2 ealry last year.

Clearly, you have no choice in the matter. Besides, I don't see anyone behind Fitz to replace him that would be even remotely better.

 

Fitz does have hot and cold streaks just like every other NFL QB, notice how Tom Brady played most of the game against the Cards. Fitz should be fine as long as Gailey doesn't try and turn him into Drew Brees again this year, and force him to throw all game long like the 2nd half of last year.

 

The game against the Chiefs Gailey utilized the run game a whole bunch more then he has in the past, keeping the ball in the best offensive players hands. Running the ball with Spiller worked very well Fitz threw for less then 200 yards and 2 TD, Gailey needs to keep this same game plan going the entire year

 

 

What most of you fail to realize is, its tough enough to try and re-train a rookie QB who has had 4 years of college and a few years of high school to develop all the wrong habits, most colleges don't even try and change the QB's mechanics if he plays effectively. If you listened to Fitz talk about David lee this is the very first time in his entire career that anyone has tried to help him with his mechanics and technique. So thats a ton of years of bad habits to overcome. Plus in learning this new techniques and mechanics he needs to work on it so much it come automatically and he shouldn't need to think about it at all.

 

This is a process, its going to take some time! Just relax as none of you have no control over any of this. David Lee will ultimately help Fitz improve his passing skills

[C.Biscuit97]

Funniest stat: Fitz is currently leading the NFL in touchdown passes.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Reaching for excuses for Fitz's terrible play aren't we? Fitz is working his way out of Buffalo, no matter what confidence Chan Gailey says to the press. He has been terrible both games, and was deservedly booed over and over in the stadium yesterday. I like Fitz, but he will never be a winning caliber QB in the NFL. His passes were terrible, just terrible. His decisions were hideous. I like the guy, but he has the smarts to go have a successful career in something else besides the NFL-maybe the UFL. To blame his inability on a quarterback coach is a complete and utterly ridiculous joke.

 

Mechanics aren't the only problem he is having, his poor decisions are just as big if not even a bigger problem then the mechanics. It also seems like he is losing some of his confidence too.

 

Being booed should help the confidence thing.