thebug Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Exactly... Read the thread and learn. Yeah, that works if you are talking about the LT, not a 100 Million dollar pass rushing "specialist". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Who said we paid him to get sacks? We paid him to help the pass rush. And by taking up two offensive players, he is helping the pass rush. You assuming things doesn't mean it's true. Gimme a break. You don't sign a big-name pass-rushing specialist and not expect sacks from him (and a lot of them). I am going to reserve judgment on the guy until the end of the year. But if he doesn't have double-digit sacks by the end of the year, it would be hard-pressed to say that he had a good season. Geez--the guy admitted as much himself last week, when he said all that matters is sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Gimme a break. You don't sign a big-name pass-rushing specialist and not expect sacks from him (and a lot of them). I am going to reserve judgment on the guy until the end of the year. But if he doesn't have double-digit sacks by the end of the year, it would be hard-pressed to say that he had a good season. Geez--the guy admitted as much himself last week, when he said all that matters is sacks. The extent of your football knowledge and experience is limited to Madden and your fantasy league, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You simply can't judge a player based on just what he does or view their contribution in a vacuuum. If opposing offenses have to deal with him and have to account for him every time he's on the field then he's absolutely having an impact. Every TE or RB that has to chip or block is one less offensive player available to do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Gimme a break. You don't sign a big-name pass-rushing specialist and not expect sacks from him (and a lot of them). I am going to reserve judgment on the guy until the end of the year. But if he doesn't have double-digit sacks by the end of the year, it would be hard-pressed to say that he had a good season. Geez--the guy admitted as much himself last week, when he said all that matters is sacks. He's not just a pass rushing specialist though. All that matters to fans is sacks but he does EVERYTHING well. If he continues playing like this, no doubt the sacks come. Every pass rusher goes games without sacks, but if those games look like today you have got to be THRILLED about your investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The extent of your football knowledge and experience is limited to Madden and your fantasy league, isn't it? Yup, that must be it. I mean, I appreciate the fact that you think that MW had an impact on the game by taking up multiple blockers. I get that. But there is no question in my mind that Mario and every single person in the Bills front office are expecting him to get a lot of sacks. That is what is expected of elite pass rushers, particularly ones that are paid top dollar. Under any legitimate metric, if the season ends and Williams has 3 sacks, it will be considered a disappointing season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Never notcied him once. The chiefs certanly did when they triple teamed him at times. That pulls guys away from routes, that frees up other defenders to make plays. Those 5 sacks we had today, Mario was a big reason why. Sometimes the stuff that shows up on the stat sheet isnt the important stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The chiefs certanly did when they triple teamed him at times. That pulls guys away from routes, that frees up other defenders to make plays. Those 5 sacks we had today, Mario was a big reason why. Sometimes the stuff that shows up on the stat sheet isnt the important stuff Yea - when he's tripled suddenly it's a 10 vs 8 game (and he was still getting push and effecting the pocket). Playing in the qbs face instead of the blindside will likely cost him sacks, as the qb will see him coming but it should also help everyone else when the qb runs into them while avoiding Mario. And I still expect 10 sacks. If you think 3 is possible, short of injury in the next month, then I don't think you saw him play today or the rest of his career, JR. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 And I still expect 10 sacks. If you think 3 is possible, short of injury in the next month, then I don't think you saw him play today or the rest of his career, JR. Sorry. Yeah, I'm not saying he's not going to get there. I just don't agree with the idea that sacks are unimportant. They are game-changing plays. Mario expects them; we should expect them too, notwithstanding the double teams. I agree with you that sacks come in droves--so here's hoping he has a couple 2-3 sack games here coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yup, that must be it. I mean, I appreciate the fact that you think that MW had an impact on the game by taking up multiple blockers. I get that. But there is no question in my mind that Mario and every single person in the Bills front office are expecting him to get a lot of sacks. That is what is expected of elite pass rushers, particularly ones that are paid top dollar. Under any legitimate metric, if the season ends and Williams has 3 sacks, it will be considered a disappointing season. That's just it: you haven't referenced any legitimate metrics. For example, in the last 30 games Darnell Revis has only 5 interceptions, but is widely regarded as the best cornerback in the game... how is that possible? It's what illegitimizes defensive statistics in football. Revis' impact on the game is great, but not statistically quantifiable because opposing offenses pick their poison and scheme around him, refusing to let him beat them and instead taking their shots attacking other areas of the defense. Likewise, teams can scheme against defensive linemen as well, shifting the line calls towards him, offering doubleteams, and chiping with TEs and RBs. What they've done by doing this is essentially saying that Mario Williams isn't going to beat them, and they were willing to take their chances with Kyle, Marcel, and the Anderson/Kelsey rotation. It was fairly obvious that this was the Chiefs game plan given last weeks lack luster passrushing performance across the board. Mario broke their game plan by being stout setting the edge and keeping contain, while at the same time pushing the pocket enough to force Matt Cassel to step up into the waiting arms of our DTs who were allowed to run wild and make plays because they were only being exposed to single coverage blocking. If more teams decide to scheme that way expect more big numbers from the middle of the line and Mario's bookends. If they decide they can't leave Kyle and Marcel single blocked and will have to take their chances with Mario one on one, you'll see him start to pile up sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiterateStylish Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah, that works if you are talking about the LT, not a 100 Million dollar pass rushing "specialist". That's nonsense. Gimme a break. You don't sign a big-name pass-rushing specialist and not expect sacks from him (and a lot of them). I am going to reserve judgment on the guy until the end of the year. But if he doesn't have double-digit sacks by the end of the year, it would be hard-pressed to say that he had a good season. Geez--the guy admitted as much himself last week, when he said all that matters is sacks. Such ignorance gives me headaches. Someone else deal with this jester. Yup, that must be it. I mean, I appreciate the fact that you think that MW had an impact on the game by taking up multiple blockers. I get that. But there is no question in my mind that Mario and every single person in the Bills front office are expecting him to get a lot of sacks. That is what is expected of elite pass rushers, particularly ones that are paid top dollar. Under any legitimate metric, if the season ends and Williams has 3 sacks, it will be considered a disappointing season. Not if he's enabling the rest of the line to combine for 50 sacks. is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) That's just it: you haven't referenced any legitimate metrics. For example, in the last 30 games Darnell Revis has only 5 interceptions, but is widely regarded as the best cornerback in the game... how is that possible? It's what illegitimizes defensive statistics in football. Revis' impact on the game is great, but not statistically quantifiable because opposing offenses pick their poison and scheme around him, refusing to let him beat them and instead taking their shots attacking other areas of the defense. Likewise, teams can scheme against defensive linemen as well, shifting the line calls towards him, offering doubleteams, and chiping with TEs and RBs. What they've done by doing this is essentially saying that Mario Williams isn't going to beat them, and they were willing to take their chances with Kyle, Marcel, and the Anderson/Kelsey rotation. It was fairly obvious that this was the Chiefs game plan given last weeks lack luster passrushing performance across the board. Mario broke their game plan by being stout setting the edge and keeping contain, while at the same time pushing the pocket enough to force Matt Cassel to step up into the waiting arms of our DTs who were allowed to run wild and make plays because they were only being exposed to single coverage blocking. If more teams decide to scheme that way expect more big numbers from the middle of the line and Mario's bookends. If they decide they can't leave Kyle and Marcel single blocked and will have to take their chances with Mario one on one, you'll see him start to pile up sacks. It's amazing how universally accepted that idea is in March during free agency but 2 weeks into the season a lot of people are turned "omg he doesnt have 6 sacks yet" If today is his zero sack impact - its huge. And it matches what hes done in this league week in and week out for years. Eventually he's going to pile up a ton of sacks too, like he has his whole career. Week 1 was no good, but far from typical from him. Week 2 he was FANTASTIC despite a lack of fantasy football points. Unfortunately until he puts up a 20 sack season, there will be people that dislike him for week 1. This will be a weekly discussion for quite some time. Edited September 17, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qdawg in philly Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Id just like to see wanny move him from time to time. Switch sides. I think that would really give offenses a headache!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 That's nonsense. Such ignorance gives me headaches. Someone else deal with this jester. Not if he's enabling the rest of the line to combine for 50 sacks. is right. Some outstanding rebuttals there. What's funny is that no one is really disagreeing with you that Williams took on blockers, had a good game, and caused others to have a game. I think where people--or, at least me--have a problem is with your OP where you appear to suggest that sacks are unimportant or that we shouldn't have an expectation that Williams should be getting a lot of sacks this year. Are you telling me that you would be thrilled if Williams had a game like today every week and ended the season with zero sacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Man, by the sounds of it, $100 million doesn't go very far nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Id just like to see wanny move him from time to time. Switch sides. I think that would really give offenses a headache!! I agree, and assume we'll see more of these wrinkles as the season progresses; especially if Mario is continually schemed against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Some outstanding rebuttals there. What's funny is that no one is really disagreeing with you that Williams took on blockers, had a good game, and caused others to have a game. I think where people--or, at least me--have a problem is with your OP where you appear to suggest that sacks are unimportant or that we shouldn't have an expectation that Williams should be getting a lot of sacks this year. Are you telling me that you would be thrilled if Williams had a game like today every week and ended the season with zero sacks? It would be very bizarre to play that well for that long with collecting a lof but if he had the impact he did today every week, I could care less what the stat line reads. Would you be mad if he was triple teamed regularly while our defense got 80 sacks in the season, without heavy blitzing while totally controlling the running game? And he collected some fumbled recoveries along the way? Edited September 17, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Gimme a break. You don't sign a big-name pass-rushing specialist and not expect sacks from him (and a lot of them). I am going to reserve judgment on the guy until the end of the year. But if he doesn't have double-digit sacks by the end of the year, it would be hard-pressed to say that he had a good season. Geez--the guy admitted as much himself last week, when he said all that matters is sacks. So you're going to judge his season by 10 plays? That's an interesting approach... I'd prefer a guy who constantly demands double teams, gets a handful a pressures every game and plays the run very well to a guy who sucks for much of the game yet gets a sack here and there that end up adding up to 10+ sacks on the season. But hey, to each his own, if you want to judge a season based on 10 sacks that's your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Some outstanding rebuttals there. What's funny is that no one is really disagreeing with you that Williams took on blockers, had a good game, and caused others to have a game. I think where people--or, at least me--have a problem is with your OP where you appear to suggest that sacks are unimportant or that we shouldn't have an expectation that Williams should be getting a lot of sacks this year. Are you telling me that you would be thrilled if Williams had a game like today every week and ended the season with zero sacks? So your argument is that Darnell Revis is a bad cornerback because he's only has 5 interceptions in his last 30 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-scout Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Yeah, that works if you are talking about the LT, not a 100 Million dollar pass rushing "specialist". He and mark Anderson both looked like crap. Mario has very few moves and routinely gets outmuscled when he makes a push into the RT. Yes they had a better game but did you notice how bad Cassel really is. He's just as bad if not worse then Fitzcraptrick. We should have broke the bank on a QB trade and WR. Imagine if we had a decent QB in this system and drafted a DE. Heck we keep the cash and watch Kelsey do an equally quite job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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