FreakPop Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Just build a new stadium. If the Ralph gets renovated it's gonna need to be renovated again in 10 years, and then again 10 years after that. Just build a new one that will be maintenance free for the next 25+ years. You can't keep replacing band aids with new band aids, eventually you are going to have to replace the band aid with something bigger and better. The Ralph has come to that point in it's existence. Edited November 17, 2012 by FreakPop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Explain please? Are they letting people drive through there? Or are people still crossing wherever they want? Abbott Road is still only blocked in front of the stadium. Not totally closed from 20 to 20a. This false media reporting helps add to the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Try being under there at halftime trying to get to a concession stand, restroom, or to the exterior walkway of the stadium. Human gridlock, and no, it is not for a few seconds. Who said it was fine 20 years ago? And in 1973 they built Rich Stadium to hold 80,000! What braniac thought those concourses where wide enough for 80K fans??? Go to a new stadium like Gillette or Met Life Meadowlands. Even at halftime you can move around. I'm not talking fancy, unless being able to breath is one of them fancy stadium features. They may not be able to change the actual concourses at RWS. Most of the walls are load-bearing. What I envision is moving the stadium gates out and digging a ring around the stadium and make that the new lower concourse, while blasting openings through the existing walls to get there. The 300 level will be trickier. That may entail building platforms extending out from the current concourses. Abbott Road is still only blocked in front of the stadium. Not totally closed from 20 to 20a. This false media reporting helps add to the confusion. Building a pedestrian ramps over Abbott might be a good idea here. Just build a new stadium. If the Ralph gets renovated it's gonna need to be renovated again in 10 years, and then again 10 years after that. Just build a new one that will be maintenance free for the next 25+ years. You can't keep replacing band aids with new band aids, eventually you are going to have to replace the band aid with something bigger and better. The Ralph has come to that point in it's existence. New stadium will run close to $1B. Thats a big difference, even if renovating RWS is $300M. PTR Edited November 17, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 do whatever they did to lambeau with what they have to work with, money wise, never hear any complaints about lambeau.. Politics wise, IF Lambeau was in Erie County, or WNY, there wouldn't be a Lambeau! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 (edited) Yes!!! Thank god for the metal detectors. I wouldn't have know I had two quarters in my pocket. They went from pat downs(so now people can sneak liquor into the stadium in a plastic container), to metal detectors that remind me that I have keys and coins in my pockets. Good decision OBD. You have just taken a step backwards in dealing with the out of control drinking at the staidum. It's actually the NFL, and not OBD, that made this decision, but I agree that it is pretty stupid. I got to the gate an hour before the NE game, just so I didn't have to deal with the near soccer tragedy experience that bbb referenced above. Once in, there was absolutely nothing to do for an hour. Now that's on OBD. Get enough screeners out there so that we don't face the Hobson's choice of either getting in an hour early or dealing with a dangerous situation at the gate. Put a classic game on the Jumbotron or have some nice stores in the stadium or something. I would have a much easier time killing an hour in the arena before a Sabres game than I did at RWS. As for the plastic liquor bottles: I know a group of guys who do just that (and have been doing it for years) with little airline bottles of scotch. They're in their sixties, so I doubt that they're the "target" drunks that the Bills want to eliminate, but still... Edited November 17, 2012 by Offsides Number 76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFITZ1 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 And in 1973 they built Rich Stadium to hold 80,000! What braniac thought those concourses where wide enough for 80K fans??? Go to a new stadium like Gillette or Met Life Meadowlands. Even at halftime you can move around. I'm not talking fancy, unless being able to breath is one of them fancy stadium features. They may not be able to change the actual concourses at RWS. Most of the walls are load-bearing. What I envision is moving the stadium gates out and digging a ring around the stadium and make that the new lower concourse, while blasting openings through the existing walls to get there. The 300 level will be trickier. That may entail building platforms extending out from the current concourses. PTR I wonder how many RWS critics (even with valid criticism) remember the process of getting the stadium built. RWS was the last option, hip-pocket alternative after the very politically and patronage movitated debate and eventual voting down of a domed stadium had occurred. RWS was what RW envisioned all along, a large, low cost stadium on a cheap piece of land in the suburbs. As the last 40 years have played out, it was the right thing to do (odd for any major decision in Erie County). Most of the new stadiums from the 70's have been torn down because they were not conducive to modification to the basics of modern day stadiums (aka corporate boxes). RWS being large and football only made it possible, both in engineering and economics, to modify. Had a domed stadium been built instead. the Bills may have left 15 years ago like Cleveland or county taxes would be thru the stratasphere paying for a new stadium used only 10 times a year. One reason RWS was built so cheap (and fast) is having the lower level built into a bowl, hence eliminating the need for a lot of support structure. Unfortunately, that meant there would be one concourse where normally there would be 2. Compared to WMS, it was still an improvement. Speaking of WMS, it did have one advantage for some fans, a roof. There were a couple games played in downpours where I stayed dry because my seat was under that roof. Not so lucky for those on the scoreboard side (see my avatar). As for creature comforts, I'm with the OP on this. I do need the team and league going out of there way to cushion, feed or weatherize me. Like any fan, I'll handle that myself. For those that need it, move to Dallas and try to buy a ticket (without taking out a loan). In Buffalo, the team is responsible for your enetrtainment on the field, the fans make (or break) the experience off the field. BTW - do you know Erie County taxpayers paid for 2 stadiums but only got one? That's right, they paid for RWS AND had to pay the lawsuit against the County by the contractors who had a deal to build the domed stadium. That lawsuit exceeded the cost of RWS. The taxpayers got screwed while the real criminals walked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Don' t they stand in the lower sections to? Living in the southtowns i would leave at 12:15 park on califonia walk up the hills and still have time to get to my seats. Boy things have changed. I once left my house at 12:45, drove 10 minutes to my spot, walked ten minutes to my seat and was in it for kickoff. Before 9/11 or course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 I once left my house at 12:45, drove 10 minutes to my spot, walked ten minutes to my seat and was in it for kickoff. Before 9/11 or course. . My buddy would pick me up and we would park at the california lot walk that hill and stop for a watered down beer and slide into our seats. Those were the days I wonder how many RWS critics (even with valid criticism) remember the process of getting the stadium built. RWS was the last option, hip-pocket alternative after the very politically and patronage movitated debate and eventual voting down of a domed stadium had occurred. RWS was what RW envisioned all along, a large, low cost stadium on a cheap piece of land in the suburbs. As the last 40 years have played out, it was the right thing to do (odd for any major decision in Erie County). Most of the new stadiums from the 70's have been torn down because they were not conducive to modification to the basics of modern day stadiums (aka corporate boxes). RWS being large and football only made it possible, both in engineering and economics, to modify. Had a domed stadium been built instead. the Bills may have left 15 years ago like Cleveland or county taxes would be thru the stratasphere paying for a new stadium used only 10 times a year. One reason RWS was built so cheap (and fast) is having the lower level built into a bowl, hence eliminating the need for a lot of support structure. Unfortunately, that meant there would be one concourse where normally there would be 2. Compared to WMS, it was still an improvement. Speaking of WMS, it did have one advantage for some fans, a roof. There were a couple games played in downpours where I stayed dry because my seat was under that roof. Not so lucky for those on the scoreboard side (see my avatar). As for creature comforts, I'm with the OP on this. I do need the team and league going out of there way to cushion, feed or weatherize me. Like any fan, I'll handle that myself. For those that need it, move to Dallas and try to buy a ticket (without taking out a loan). In Buffalo, the team is responsible for your enetrtainment on the field, the fans make (or break) the experience off the field. Ed cotrell? BTW - do you know Erie County taxpayers paid for 2 stadiums but only got one? That's right, they paid for RWS AND had to pay the lawsuit against the County by the contractors who had a deal to build the domed stadium. That lawsuit exceeded the cost of RWS. The taxpayers got screwed while the real criminals walked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Disclaimer: I started going to games in the Rockpile in the 60s, so I come from a different era. I understand the need to improve the Ralph for engineering safety and integrity purposes - 40 years is old for a concrete structure. But do we really need wider concourses, more video screens and try to make the stadium more in line with the new stadiums being built? I've not heard many people say they don't go to games because its too crowded or too hard to see the replays. It's not the most comfortable place, but I prefer to get to my seat and stand there and scream for three hours and then slide on out. If I want comfort I stay in my comfy living room. I kinda like our stark, old school stadium! I'm going to watch football, not the friggin opera! And we aren't competing with Indy or Dallas or Jersey for where we choose to watch a game, so why do we need to upgrade the stadium to try and keep up with those cities? Just seems like the stadium improvements could easily be limited to what is necessary to maintain the structural safety of the Ralph and leave it at that. If we do keep the team here long term, a new stadium is going to be needed eventually, so why spend the extra bucks for comfort improvements now? Just wondering if I'm in the minority and most people (who actually attend the games) feel we need to improve the comfort factor at the Ralph. You got that right! It's gotten ridiculous what's "required" now for stadiums. And many talk about what a great business model it is, yet it cannot even support itself w/ owners requiring the financing, which is usually more than the actual cost, of these stadiums. Let the owner f'ing pay for it! Otherwise, you're absolutely right, fans of the sport have apparently become so pussified that they can sit through a game w/o heated seats and rooms to retreat to. What gets me based on my limited experiences in boxes and the like, is how many people watch the dam games on the TVs that are up there. it's no wonder Goodell's concerned with HDTV and people just staying home. Seems that they need to find 5,000 or 10,000 of the wealthiest people in any given sports city to shell out absurd amounts of money and that that's the real focus on spectating these days. I wouldn't trade any of it for having been able to sit in the snow and cold during all of those '90s era playoff games, yes, at times freezing my a$$ off, but not caring, then going out to the lots to stand by those enormous warm fires basking in the glow of victory. Priorities in the NFL and other professional sports are all f'd up these days. Meanwhile, it's part of what might drive the team from the region. Edited November 18, 2012 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Meanwhile, college football tickets are a hotter ticket than NFL tickets are and they play in ancient dumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 WiFi, wide concourses, better food options, bigger replay screens, and more bathrooms are just the start to what is needed. A significant rise in ticket prices with a smaller downtown stadium is the only long term viable option. The NFL can not compete with HDTV and the only reason the RW sells out is the low cost of the tickets. And with that you get the low class fans we read/post about in other topics. If NY State wants to keep the Bills the only way is a new mostly taxpayer funded down-town stadium complex with an iron clad lease( a photocopy of Jacksonville's would do). Otherwise I am sure Brandon has been instructed by whomever is making financial decisions for Ralph these days to delay any negotiations/deals until he passes away and the team is sold. We should all be very worried that no progress has been made. It means either the state could care less about WNY - gee that's a shock - or RW doesn't want to tie the hands of the highest bidder for the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Otherwise I am sure Brandon has been instructed by whomever is making financial decisions for Ralph these days to delay any negotiations/deals until he passes away and the team is sold. We should all be very worried that no progress has been made. It means either the state could care less about WNY - gee that's a shock - or RW doesn't want to tie the hands of the highest bidder for the franchise. This subject matter has been discussed on many occasions. The challenge for the state is not to come up with the money for the renovation. The method has been worked out. It will mostly use taxes on player incomes to pay for the project. All the state is asking from the franchhise is a committment to stay for a reasonable period of time to justify the project, even if there is an ownership change. The owner and his representatives are not willing to make that committment. From their standpoint they don't want to encumber their major asset with any liabilities in order to make it more attractive to all bidders (outsiders) when it is auctioned off. Anyone who believes that Ralph Wilson has a secret plan that will keep the team in western NY is deluding himself/herself. If the winning bidder wants to keep the team in the region it stays. If a winning bidder wants to move the team it moves. http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/09/12/bills-stadium-lease-talks-stall-with-state-county810583/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 one thing I noticed at RWS is the blue padded wall along the front row...the paint is peeling off of it and looks like crap close up...At the Chiefs game I sat above the "L" in Buffalo...it was half gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I wonder how many RWS critics (even with valid criticism) remember the process of getting the stadium built. RWS was the last option, hip-pocket alternative after the very politically and patronage movitated debate and eventual voting down of a domed stadium had occurred. RWS was what RW envisioned all along, a large, low cost stadium on a cheap piece of land in the suburbs. As the last 40 years have played out, it was the right thing to do (odd for any major decision in Erie County). Most of the new stadiums from the 70's have been torn down because they were not conducive to modification to the basics of modern day stadiums (aka corporate boxes). RWS being large and football only made it possible, both in engineering and economics, to modify. Had a domed stadium been built instead. the Bills may have left 15 years ago like Cleveland or county taxes would be thru the stratasphere paying for a new stadium used only 10 times a year. One reason RWS was built so cheap (and fast) is having the lower level built into a bowl, hence eliminating the need for a lot of support structure. Unfortunately, that meant there would be one concourse where normally there would be 2. Compared to WMS, it was still an improvement. Speaking of WMS, it did have one advantage for some fans, a roof. There were a couple games played in downpours where I stayed dry because my seat was under that roof. Not so lucky for those on the scoreboard side (see my avatar). As for creature comforts, I'm with the OP on this. I do need the team and league going out of there way to cushion, feed or weatherize me. Like any fan, I'll handle that myself. For those that need it, move to Dallas and try to buy a ticket (without taking out a loan). In Buffalo, the team is responsible for your enetrtainment on the field, the fans make (or break) the experience off the field. BTW - do you know Erie County taxpayers paid for 2 stadiums but only got one? That's right, they paid for RWS AND had to pay the lawsuit against the County by the contractors who had a deal to build the domed stadium. That lawsuit exceeded the cost of RWS. The taxpayers got screwed while the real criminals walked. Articles about the domed stadium lawsuit: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19940114&id=6rRKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=l5QMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4948,2670248 http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19710118&id=0ptOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uQkEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3677,2960010 http://www.nytimes.com/1984/08/05/nyregion/erie-county-loses-dome-suit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 It is kind of bad that I am basically imprisoned at my seat for all of halftime. Also, I would like to be able to make a trip to the bathroom and not miss 15 minutes + of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 It is kind of bad that I am basically imprisoned at my seat for all of halftime. Also, I would like to be able to make a trip to the bathroom and not miss 15 minutes + of the game What happens at halftime that keeps you at your seat? (Just curious. I don't go to that many games to know what could be the cause of that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) What happens at halftime that keeps you at your seat? (Just curious. I don't go to that many games to know what could be the cause of that.) Basically the concourses are jam-packed, like shoulder to shoulder front to back, pushing, and shoving. If you try for the bathroom and/or buy a beer, you will miss the beginning of the 3rd quarter. Plus, people get pushy at halftime cutting in line to get in before the beer cut-off, or at the bathroom because they held it all half. Its really frustrating and stress inducing. Back when cigs were legal it was at least fun to get above ground, have a little bit of personal space, and watch some funny hijinx from afar. I have learned that you are better off just staying in the seat. So I guess I would appreciate a bigger common area/concourses and possibly a bathroom situation that doesnt require missing a few series. Maybe make concessions (beer) access a little better. Some of the ideas above are very good. Other than that, I am fine with the metal bleacher seat I have and all the creature comforts I may be missing out on being a Bills fan. Oh yeah, maybe a small auxillary Jumbotron somewhere on the tunnel end would be nice. I cant see 1/2 of the scoreboard from my seat Edited November 19, 2012 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If the Bills want to compete with the rest of the league, then yes, stadium improvements or a new stadium are needed. A new stadium/stadium improvements can help bring in more revenue while justifying increase to ticket prices. They don't need to go as far as waht Dallas or NY have done, but just keeping the stadium as is just isn't an option if they hope to stay a viable franchise. Its the reality of todays fans and league. Its a business and its all about increasing revenue sources. They need to compete with todays TVs and home theatres that are becoming more and more popular and make the game day experience better to keep people from just staying home to watch. As for the comment about college games, schools couldn't afford to build fancy stadiums without increasing ticket prices, and with it being a school, how many college students are going to be able to afford ticket prices comparable to Dallas or NY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 A small % of seats at a college football game are student seating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Number 76 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Basically the concourses are jam-packed, like shoulder to shoulder front to back, pushing, and shoving. If you try for the bathroom and/or buy a beer, you will miss the beginning of the 3rd quarter. Plus, people get pushy at halftime cutting in line to get in before the beer cut-off, or at the bathroom because they held it all half. Its really frustrating and stress inducing. Back when cigs were legal it was at least fun to get above ground, have a little bit of personal space, and watch some funny hijinx from afar. I have learned that you are better off just staying in the seat. So I guess I would appreciate a bigger common area/concourses and possibly a bathroom situation that doesnt require missing a few series. Maybe make concessions (beer) access a little better. Some of the ideas above are very good. Other than that, I am fine with the metal bleacher seat I have and all the creature comforts I may be missing out on being a Bills fan. Oh yeah, maybe a small auxillary Jumbotron somewhere on the tunnel end would be nice. I cant see 1/2 of the scoreboard from my seat Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts