Dante Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 this is basically Gary Johnson's platform in a nutshell. Produce here, trade with our friendly neighbors for resources, and stay the !@#$ out of the Middle East and stop sending them !@#$ing money... Its a toilet for a reason. let them flush themselves. this is basically Gary Johnson's platform in a nutshell. Produce here, trade with our friendly neighbors for resources, and stay the !@#$ out of the Middle East and stop sending them !@#$ing money... Its a toilet for a reason. let them flush themselves. I really didn't get the "Arab Spring" . What good is democracy if the society itself isn't civil as in tolerant? I guess it's like giving the keys to the Lambo to a 7 year old. Best left alone at let them fight among themselves. Only ones I feel sorry for over there are the Israelis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) The WH knows how to stop the violence that lead to the timed murder of four Americans. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff called a Florida pastor today, asking him to withdraw his support of an anti-Islam online film that may have triggered riots in Egypt and Libya. A statement from Marine Col. David Lapan: "The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, spoke by phone this morning with Pastor Terry Jones. In the brief call, Gen. Dempsey expressed his concerns over the nature of the film, the tensions it will inflame and the violence it will cause. He asked Mr. Jones to consider withdrawing his support for the film." Yes. That's right. The film is causing the violence. Longest. Amateur. Hour. Ever. No, No, No, No! Mario Loyola September 12, 2012 5:00 P.M. Nobody in the U.S. government, least of all the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff acting in his official capacity, should be calling Terry Jones or any other American citizen about the Mohammed spoof. Not only does that elevate Jones to some sort of semi-official status, but spoofs of deities are entirely within our rights and absolutely no business of the government’s. The U.S. government should not be taking an official position on the Mohammed spoof. It is entirely outside the official competence of United States military to be calling private citizens asking them be quiet, especially when they are exercising a constitutional right. Offending people is not an incitement to violence. Otherwise I could get everyone who wears a Che Guevara t-shirt brought up on charges of incitement. The only issue that need concern the government of the United States right now is that the criminals who attacked our citizens and our embassies are still on the loose. The government of Egypt should have prevented the attack on the embassy, and should be held accountable for prosecuting those who incited, organized, and carried it out. The Egyptian government should understand that its failure to carry out those obligations will make it accountable for the attacks. All aid coming from America, whether directly or through the IMF, should be conditioned on Egypt’s responsiveness in this matter, and we should be lobbying our European allies and other partners hard. And as for Libya, as I said earlier, we should have special ops and CIA on the ground in Libya hunting the terrorists down right now. Meanwhile, members of Congress should formally protest General Dempsey’s phone call to Terry Jones. I know Petraeus did it when Terry Jones was going to burn some Korans, but he was wrong then and General Dempsey is wrong now. In their private capacity they can make whatever phone calls they want. In their official capacity they have no business making phone calls like this. Edited September 12, 2012 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) I really didn't get the "Arab Spring" . What good is democracy if the society itself isn't civil as in tolerant? I guess it's like giving the keys to the Lambo to a 7 year old. Best left alone at let them fight among themselves. Only ones I feel sorry for over there are the Israelis. Gary Johnson, and most libertarians probably have it right. Thing is we're sort of entrenched and have made our enemies already so do we want to leave our position of leverage to drone them (perhaps making more or irritating the situation). As for Democracy itself...it's fine and good for them most of the people are not maniacs Dante...hell the actual PEOPLE of Iran are a lot more pro-America than most American's know (a point Gary Johnson made today in his slew of interviews)...obviously the more rural Iranians may be a bit sketchy but the city folk don't hate us in mass... Edited September 12, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Easy for you to toss around generic labels far removed from harms way. You might feel different if it were you or a family member in a hot spot like that and some !@#$s in america were stirring the spot. Its a horrible situation to put our representatives overseas in. I'd go in their stead... And I promise, I'll be sure to have what I need to defend American property, like the embassy, BEFORE any "diplomacy" is discussed... Instead of anothe apology tour by the staff at the embassy in Cairo this time, PBO should have been on the phone with his couterparts in both Libya, and Egypt to expain the fact of life..... and death... to them... Goes like this.... PBO... I understand you have a bunch of radicals about to attack our embassy??? Reply... We think we have it under control Mr President... PBO... Good, but just in case, I just want you to know I have 20 stealth bombers on the way to, well, you understand, help the situation?? Reply... Yes, we understand, our troops will protect the embassy as you suggest... PBO... I thought you might see it my way... but know, the bombers will circle for a while just in case we need them... Good day gentlemen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What is the apology tour deal why does this actually resonate w/ you? You engage in diplomacy and get facts and act rationally to advance American interests. Is this the cold war? We need to beat our chests in 2012? Is the rest of the world blind? They know how superior we are. They know we can basically reign hellfire on any building in the world and that we'll tople a regime if we feel like it. This "talk tough" BS is just stupid. We need to publicly "rah rah" ourselves? What is this? Why is this something that gets you so worked up...I understand a lot of the GOP meme-attacks...this one I don't get why it's so popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What is the apology tour deal why does this actually resonate w/ you? You engage in diplomacy and get facts and act rationally to advance American interests. Is this the cold war? We need to beat our chests in 2012? Is the rest of the world blind? They know how superior we are. They know we can basically reign hellfire on any building in the world and that we'll tople a regime if we feel like it. This "talk tough" BS is just stupid. We need to publicly "rah rah" ourselves? What is this? Why is this something that gets you so worked up...I understand a lot of the GOP meme-attacks...this one I don't get why it's so popular. and "leading from behind" has done what??? Do I need to point out the obvious to you??? your smarter than that... and I don't play.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 and "leading from behind" has done what??? Do I need to point out the obvious to you??? your smarter than that... and I don't play.... The reality is, you support democracy and run the risk of what happened or you help keep the current dictator in power and have some form of stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 and "leading from behind" has done what??? Do I need to point out the obvious to you??? your smarter than that... and I don't play.... Explain to me what "leading form behind" has been, and what "leading from the front" would have been...and what incidents you even are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The reality is, you support democracy and run the risk of what happened or you help keep the current dictator in power and have some form of stability. your mistaken... I despise democracy in fact, hating the principle of a majority, dictating their will to the minority; and hold to a republic form of government that is sworn to protect even the smallest of minorities, the individual, based on the dictates set forth in a Constitution, ... Explain to me what "leading form behind" has been, and what "leading from the front" would have been...and what incidents you even are talking about. I told you, I don't play.. come back when there is an intelligent question you'd like me to answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 your mistaken... I despise democracy in fact, hating the principle of a majority, dictating their will to the minority; and hold to a republic form of government that is sworn to protect even the smallest of minorities, the individual, based on the dictates set forth in a Constitution, ... I told you, I don't play.. come back when there is an intelligent question you'd like me to answer... Umm ya I don't know how you of all people would be the arbiter on what is considered intelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 The reality is, you support democracy and run the risk of what happened or you help keep the current dictator in power and have some form of stability. No. There is, infact, a third option. Total War. Rain fire on them destroying every single bit of their infrastructure, hospital, house, hut, and hovel. Follow this up with a full scale ground invasion, burning their food and poisoning their water supply as we go, killing everything and everyone that moves. We deny them aid from the UN and ourselves, making it known that we will drop a nuclear warhead on any nation who violates this edict or grants asylum to political refugees. We then colonize behind ourselves, leaving our new border entirely militarized, letting our new neighbors know we are hostile, and that we haven't ended our assaults yet. With 100% compliance and exemplary behavior they don't have to be next. If there is a "next" use chemical and biological weapons. If there is a "next" after that, nuclear bombs. Either they will stop of their own accord, or they will stop because there are none of them left. Either outcome is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Explain to me what "leading form behind" has been, and what "leading from the front" would have been...and what incidents you even are talking about. Leading from behind is a convenient euphemism to allow natural forces to take shape in geopolitical circles, with the hope that you can still parachute enough power to change things when they go badly. It's a very naive view thinking that a simple threat of a US retaliatory action will change people's ingrained behavior. As opposed to recognizing that US is the sole global superpower that sometimes needs to stick its nose into other people's business, because if it doesn't, the consequences will be far worse and US will be dragged in anyway at a far higher cost. There's a heavy burden for the US to bear to maintain its global leadership, and you may deride the US hegemony as the press had a field day with the word, but in the end, a proactive US involvement in global affairs always works out for the better, than if you outsource the job, and then hope for change. Edited September 13, 2012 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 So the Obama administration disavowed the statement released by the U.S. embassy in Cairo declaring that the embassy “condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims.” That’s fine, but the boilerplate responses of the administration continue to suggest that the federal government believes that statements or expressions that offend certain religions are not acceptable, and that our policy is that they should somehow be not permitted or not aired in the public square. From Obama’s initial statement: “The United States rejects efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.” From Obama’s Rose Garden statement: “We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others.” No we don’t! ........................ No one in the U.S. government rejects Bill Maher’s documentary “Religiosity,” or the Broadway musical mocking the Mormon faith, or Dana Carvey’s “Church Lady” character. Denigrating the religious beliefs of others, whether popular or unpopular, is protected speech under the First Amendment, and there is a long history of this in American life. You only see U.S. lawmakers denouncing mockery or criticism of a religion when the religion in question is Islam, and the primary cause of that is Muslims in certain countries tend to lash out against perceived blasphemy by attacking Westerners, foreigners, and U.S. troops and diplomatic personnel. Large swaths of the Muslim world insist that the American interpretation of the First Amendment must adapt to conform with their faith’s blasphemy definitions and punishments. The right to speak freely is non-negotiable, but the vague comments of the administration appear to be suggesting that we think some unspecified limitations on speech critical of Islam is compatible with our laws, Constitution, and traditions. http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/316695/three-policy-points-romney-raise# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Romney aide not to thrilled looking back at way they handled the situation...maybe they are IDK this is a weird thing to say though: “Ty Cobb was the greatest hitter of all time and he batted about .355. And he is still the greatest hitter,” Williamson explained later in the interview. “There isn’t something in my 63 years I couldn’t have done better except con my wife into marrying me.” http://www.thedailyb...s-accurate.html Edited September 13, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Romney aide not to thrilled looking back at way they handled the situation...maybe they are IDK this is a weird thing to say though: “Ty Cobb was the greatest hitter of all time and he batted about .355. And he is still the greatest hitter,” Williamson explained later in the interview. “There isn’t something in my 63 years I couldn’t have done better except con my wife into marrying me.” http://www.thedailyb...s-accurate.html Says the guy whose choice for leadership is watching Cairo continue to burn while partying in Vegas before going to another hard-hitting Letterman interview. Someone get the Pimp with the Limp on the phone cuz Obama has a long-distance dedication he wants to send out to all those crazy people in the Middle East who don't like American movies. It's amazing to me that anyone can watch the slow-motion, free-falliing hoof-in-mouth incompetence of Barack Obama and not wish to God we had a stapler running the country instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Says the guy whose choice for leadership is watching Cairo continue to burn while partying in Vegas before going to another hard-hitting Letterman interview. Someone get the Pimp with the Limp on the phone cuz Obama has a long-distance dedication he wants to send out to all those crazy people in the Middle East who don't like American movies. It's amazing to me that anyone can watch the slow-motion, free-falliing hoof-in-mouth incompetence of Barack Obama and not wish to God we had a stapler running the country instead. A red swingline has more respect than our.empty suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81140.html The signature Obama foreign policy success has been killing people — Osama bin Laden with a Special Forces raid and a bunch of other Al Qaeda terrorists with drones. Otherwise, we are worse off than when Obama took office. Consider: Relations with Israel are poisonous. We lost an ally in Egypt, and the revolution there may yet prove Iran 1979 redux. Iraq is sliding into the orbit of Tehran and perhaps back into chaos. Iran is closer to a nuclear weapon. We have made progress in the Afghanistan War but may throw it away with an arbitrary withdrawal, and the Pakistanis hate us more than ever. Some of this is the president’s fault, some of it is the drift of events. But it’s not the record of a modern-day Metternich. If this isn’t the time to talk about this record, when is the right time? For the press, politics doesn’t stop at the water’s edge. It stops wherever is most convenient for Obama’s reelection campaign. No. There is, infact, a third option. Total War. Rain fire on them destroying every single bit of their infrastructure, hospital, house, hut, and hovel. Follow this up with a full scale ground invasion, burning their food and poisoning their water supply as we go, killing everything and everyone that moves. We deny them aid from the UN and ourselves, making it known that we will drop a nuclear warhead on any nation who violates this edict or grants asylum to political refugees. We then colonize behind ourselves, leaving our new border entirely militarized, letting our new neighbors know we are hostile, and that we haven't ended our assaults yet. With 100% compliance and exemplary behavior they don't have to be next. If there is a "next" use chemical and biological weapons. If there is a "next" after that, nuclear bombs. Either they will stop of their own accord, or they will stop because there are none of them left. Either outcome is acceptable. This isn't Civilization 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) This isn't Civilization 5.Kudos for the Sid Meier reference (and truth be told I much prefered Civ 4), but I'm well aware. When attacked on our own soil, cost isn't the primary issue, retaliation and deterence is. Justice is for crime, not for war. War is about winning quickly, brutally, and decisively such that the outcome acts as a deterent to all other nations and their people who might otherwise consider attacking America. Please keep in mind that I don't advocate this in a vacuum. I also want all other military occupations ended, all foriegn bases closed, and all foriegn aid suspended. One of the few legitimate roles of government is making war in defense of our own soil. When we are attcked I favor total war and annihilation as our defacto response. Kill everyone, burn the whole damn place to the ground, and then walk away from any international preasures pertaining to justice and nation building; not wasting another dollar or minute there other than our self-sufficient colonial presence and our militarized borders. Shift our domestic policy towards the whole sale extraction of our own ample resources, and flood the market withering arab wealth and power. Any resistance from China and we obsolve ourselves of our debt responsibilities to them. War is an ugly thing, and it should be treated as such; never being entered into in any way other than to achieve absolute victory. Again, justice is for crime, not war. Edited September 13, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I'm saddened there is not more outrage that soverign US soil was attacked and Americans killed. Where is the outrage? The retaliation? This is an act of war. The Egyptian government at best is inept, at worst condoning. Why have we not cut off their financial aid already?!? The Islamic fundamentalists view us as being weak and our constant apologizing and lack of leadership only embolden them further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 (edited) Yeah fighting in Afghan for >10 yrs, continued drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and elsewhere, making up WMD stuff and invading Iraq, daring raid to assassinate bin laden, spending more on defense than rest of world combined, ETC ETC ETC all make us look us very weak. Yeah if thats not enough than more war must be answer. Always is right? The intellectual vacuum on this board never ceased to amaze. Really embarressed for buffalo these days , and not just the team Edited September 13, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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