This team is built to run the ball

[#34fan]

RUN THE DAM BALL!! Its a copy cat league, right? Well we should try to copy the niners!

 

Alex smith is ass and we all know that, but he manages the game. Their offense has frank gore and vernon davis. Sure they just picked up moss and manningham, but look at last year.

 

We just need our defense to come to the game and go for broke. I truly believe our defense will be fine.

As for the O, chan ask to much of fitz in imho. He has this complex passing O with the best career back up in the league at the helms. Honestly fellas, chan needs to scale back with the responsibilities that he places on fitz. Allow him to just manage the game. Run and set up the play action. I actually think fitz runs the play action well.

 

And if the niners aren't a good example of comparison, pls someone tell me why not?

 

I Agree with the majority of this. I think our secondary really needs to step it up against the pass. Sanchez did whatever the f**k he wanted out there, and we simply can't win like that.

[Turbosrrgood]

Even the 9ers passed 51% of the time and used the pass heavily in their playoff win. Not saying its their identity but to say they rarely passed is not a true statement.

 

They also went out and stockpiled receivers to go with the top ten selections at qb, wr and TE (smith Crabtree and Davis) who have been a mixed bag but illustrate the passing game being a priority for them.

 

I think that stat actually supports my point. A 50/50 run/pass offense is definitely a run happy offense in NFL comparison. Saying they rarely passed may not have been the best choice of words, but clearly the 49'rs were a running football team. My point was that running football teams could win, the 49'rs went 14-2 and won a playoff game. Pretty strong success IMO. Same for the 2000 Ravens (at the extreme end of the spectrum). You certainly wouldn't say they won due to their passing games.

 

The key to winning with a run first mentality on offense really is that you must also have a good defense. Running doesn't work well when playing catch up.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[mrags]

I don't know how closely you watched last weeks game, but you could clearly see he was beat up near the end of the first half. The second half, Chan used him significantly less.

 

IMO, there's a significant difference between the power running, game control sort of offense, and the way the Bills run the ball. CJ was clearly hurting late in the first half of the game against KC, and that was an epic half of CJ action. I think he should run the ball 15-20 times, and catch the ball in space. I don't think he'll work well for pounding the ball inside the tackles, and fashioning our entire offense around that. We work significantly better in terms of running, when we use our various spread formations to keep holes in the defense.

I watched the game very closely. I was there (and not drunk fwiw). I noticed CJ not in, in the 2nd half much at all. Did not notice any slowing down throughout the first half in his performance. Nor did tape the game so I can't go back and see it. I'll tale your word for it I guess.

 

As far as arguing your point that there's a difference between just plain running more and a power run game. No argument there. I was NEVER arguing that point and if that's the way I came across, for that I am truly sorry. I was simply stating that Chan needs to run more. FWIW we are closer to a power running game than we are to a high flying type of passing attack. We don't have 2 good WRs and we have a sub par QB. However we have 2 really good RBs that when healthy, both have been in talks for league MVP early into the past 2 seasons. Sure it's early, I can't argue that at this point. Fine will tell.

 

I agree that 25+ carries is a bit much. Won't argue that one minute. It's a lot for almost anybody on a weekly basis. Your right, you just can't sustain those numbers of carries and keep it up throughout the year. I will make a case for 20+ carries though. 20 or so rushing and another 5 recieving is about right. At this point, CJ and Freddy are our best offensive weapons and the way teams win games is to get the ball into your playmakers hands on a regular basis. That's what CJ and Freddy are. Playmakers.

 

At the end of the day, nobody knows if CJ can handle anymore carries or not because we've never seen it. When we see him carry more than that and he proves he CANT do it, I'll give up the argument. But none of us here can deny that we want a winning team ad at the moment right now, CJ is showing that he's unstoppable. I just want Chan to realize that and not get pass happy when the rush is working. We know what we've got with Fitz and it's not very impressive.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

I watched the game very closely. I was there (and not drunk fwiw). I noticed CJ not in, in the 2nd half much at all. Did not notice any slowing down throughout the first half in his performance. Nor did tape the game so I can't go back and see it. I'll tale your word for it I guess.

 

As far as arguing your point that there's a difference between just plain running more and a power run game. No argument there. I was NEVER arguing that point and if that's the way I came across, for that I am truly sorry. I was simply stating that Chan needs to run more. FWIW we are closer to a power running game than we are to a high flying type of passing attack. We don't have 2 good WRs and we have a sub par QB. However we have 2 really good RBs that when healthy, both have been in talks for league MVP early into the past 2 seasons. Sure it's early, I can't argue that at this point. Fine will tell.

 

I agree that 25+ carries is a bit much. Won't argue that one minute. It's a lot for almost anybody on a weekly basis. Your right, you just can't sustain those numbers of carries and keep it up throughout the year. I will make a case for 20+ carries though. 20 or so rushing and another 5 recieving is about right. At this point, CJ and Freddy are our best offensive weapons and the way teams win games is to get the ball into your playmakers hands on a regular basis. That's what CJ and Freddy are. Playmakers.

 

At the end of the day, nobody knows if CJ can handle anymore carries or not because we've never seen it. When we see him carry more than that and he proves he CANT do it, I'll give up the argument. But none of us here can deny that we want a winning team ad at the moment right now, CJ is showing that he's unstoppable. I just want Chan to realize that and not get pass happy when the rush is working. We know what we've got with Fitz and it's not very impressive.

How do you reconcile that easily his two best plays, the 38 yard run and the 17 yard TD run were on passing downs in passing formations against pass defenses?

 

The 38 yard run was on 2-5 which isnt automatically a pass down but the Bills went to a spread and the Chiefs put 6 DBs in, not even 5, which led to the big play.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[Turbosrrgood]

How do you reconcile that easily his two best plays, the 38 yard run and the 17 yard TD run were on passing downs in passing formations against pass defenses?

 

Exactly, that is Spillers strength. Gailey often runs out of passing formations, which gives him more space (obviously ideal for him). I think he has now proven that he could be a starter in the NFL, but I don't think he is a workhorse type. He also doesn't generally run well in tight formations or in short yardage situations, his game is speed, not power.I think getting Jackson back will give us great balance. I do think Choice has filled in as the "power back" quite nicely though.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[NoSaint]

 

 

I think that stat actually supports my point. A 50/50 run/pass offense is definitely a run happy offense in NFL comparison. Saying they rarely passed may not have been the best choice of words, but clearly the 49'rs were a running football team. My point was that running football teams could win, the 49'rs went 14-2 and won a playoff game. Pretty strong success IMO. Same for the 2000 Ravens (at the extreme end of the spectrum). You certainly wouldn't say they won due to their passing games.

 

The key to winning with a run first mentality on offense really is that you must also have a good defense. Running doesn't work well when playing catch up.

 

fair enough on that front. it just irks me some when people pretend that the niners dont having a passing game.

 

they do, and they made it a priority to improve it.

 

problem is with almost every example of a successful one, you have to pair it with a borderline all time great defense. the ravens were among the best ever. the 9ers allowed their first rushing touchdown all year on week 17.

 

i dont think a more smashmouth team would be a bad thing, but i think its important to be realistic about what that looks like.

[mrags]

 

How do you reconcile that easily his two best plays, the 38 yard run and the 17 yard TD run were on passing downs in passing formations against pass defenses?

 

The 38 yard run was on 2-5 which isnt automatically a pass down but the Bills went to a spread and the Chiefs put 6 DBs in, not even 5, which led to the big play.

And what about the other 250 or so yards this year?

 

Again, I don't care what formation they do it out of but they need to run more than they have in the past. And just because they ran well from a passing formation doesn't mean they are not built for the run. Are youbsaying the OLine would look Any different if it wasn't a passing formation? That's rediculous. We've got threads started after these last 2 games that are calling Gordy Glenn the "Snowplow" and Erik Pears a "Monster". We all know Wood is as nasty as they come on the field and Levitre was arguably a pro bowler last year. What makes you think were not built for the run? Better yet, if were not built for the run, does that mean you think were better suited to pass? Really? With Fitz as our QB and Donald Jones as one of our starting WRs? If you truly believe that, then I can't help you understand.

 

 

 

Exactly, that is Spillers strength. Gailey often runs out of passing formations, which gives him more space (obviously ideal for him). I think he has now proven that he could be a starter in the NFL, but I don't think he is a workhorse type. He also doesn't generally run well in tight formations or in short yardage situations, his game is speed, not power.I think getting Jackson back will give us great balance. I do think Choice has filled in as the "power back" quite nicely though.

Very well done. Ibalsi agree that when Freddy comes back we will see a much nicer valence between running between the tackles and outside type of running or draws that Spiller has show effectiveness in.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I personally have no desire to see CJ Spiller get any more touches than he already does.

 

I tend to view football players as having odometers… while all individuals are different, a heavier workload tends to shorten one's career, IMO.

 

I certainly don't want to see the Bills run Spiller into the ground like they did Fred Jackson last year.

 

In my perfect world, the Bills would have signed one of the several very attractive free agent running backs last year and employed a three headed monster at running back… this team would benefit greatly by having a physical, punishing running back to line up behind this offensive line and TE Lee Smith.

[Big Turk]

I think the overreaction to our run/pass balance is the same overreaction to us "never throwing downfield" although game charters last year showed the Bills threw downfield 12th most in the NFL(passes that traveled over 20 yards in the air, I believe was the definition)...part of it is because they don't watch other games so they think other teams are doing these great things when they are really not in many cases...

[TakeYouToTasker]

The next person who says that Alex Smith is a bad quarterback has to open up his wallet and buy dinner for the rest of us, agreed? Good. I'm in a salt aged steak mood... David Burke's Prime anyone?

[mrags]

The next person who says that Alex Smith is a bad quarterback has to open up his wallet and buy dinner for the rest of us, agreed? Good. I'm in a salt aged steak mood... David Burke's Prime anyone?

He's bad ;-) mmmm steak

[San Jose Bills Fan]

So can we all pretty much agree that we don't want to see the Bills over-use CJ Spiller?

 

Regardless of listed height/weight, he has a slight frame for a running back.

 

I think that if you give him the ball too much that you very quickly run into the law of diminishing returns.

[MDH]

So can we all pretty much agree that we don't want to see the Bills over-use CJ Spiller?

 

Regardless of listed height/weight, he has a slight frame for a running back.

 

I think that if you give him the ball too much that you very quickly run into the law of diminishing returns.

 

My preference - if both are healthy - is for Freddie to get 16-20 touches a game and CJ to get around 10. These numbers, obviously, can be altered if one is having more success but I agree, I'm not sure CJs body can take a full season of carries if he's carrying the load.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My preference - if both are healthy - is for Freddie to get 16-20 touches a game and CJ to get around 10. These numbers, obviously, can be altered if one is having more success but I agree, I'm not sure CJs body can take a full season of carries if he's carrying the load.

 

I more or less agree although the number of touches like you say is dynamic.

 

The funny thing is, Spiller carried quite a workload at Clemson although on the other hand, Clemson is not the NFL.

[bbb]

Plus, it would add years to both their careers.

[#34fan]

Choice, McIntyre, Run the damn ball, Chan!