The ones that got away

[ALLEN1QB]

Sounds like your not happy with Fitzpathetic! Dude I feel your pain

[DrDawkinstein]

What reality would that be ? The reality that several teams in the past 3 years (just this regime), drafted QBs while we have this slavish and OCD-level adherence to BPA ?

 

The false reality that by simply "picking a QB" we would be in a better spot. The false reality that the Bills FO didnt/doesnt want to upgrade the QB position. The false reality that we never tried to get a QB. The false reality that we could have picked Rogers. The false reality that guys like McCoy and Clausen would have been an improvement.

 

Yes, several teams have drafted QBs, and I'd say the only ones that are really happy with their choice would be Panthers, Titans, Bengals, Colts and Redskins. That's 5 teams out of 15 or so picks. Or a 66% chance that the Bills, a team that needed to add as much talent as possible to this roster, would have missed on their pick. Take out Newton and Luck because we had zero chance at getting them, and we are down to 3 out of 15, or an 80% chance of failure.

 

NOT a good gamble to make for a team rebuilding its roster from the ground- up.

[peterpan]

You may not want to hear it, but yes, it is. Simply declaring that it's not doesn't make it so.

 

Well if you believe you can't discuss the past without it being hindsight then that is your opinion.

 

Other people rather can point to the past as evidence of a trend that is still current and relevent.

 

Do you realize there are only like 2 realistic options for the bills on that entire list?

 

THAT is how hard it is to truly find a franchize QB......in the myst of those 2-3 should haves there have been a ton of QB's who have busted.....

 

Actually I picked those players because they were completely realistc options for us. Do you think Brees wanted to go to the completely devastated NOLA area - to a team that at the time was just as bad as the Bills? Vick would have went ANYWHERE and he had a great chance to start here. The other were trades/draft picks so its not like the players had any say.

[KOKBILLS]

Yes, all those Andy Reid developed QBs...look how good Kevin Kolb is! Don't we all want Mike Kafka? So far, for the record, Nick Foles record as an NFL starter is identical to mine.

 

It's not "blind faith" in Fitz...they wanted to give the guy a second full season as a starter to prove himself. If he flops, they'll move on from him.

 

Why are people so irrational about this?

 

The point is they are good with the Eagles...Not with other Teams...Is this getting too hard for you? We can slow down if you want...

[DrDawkinstein]

Vick wanted to come here. The Bills wanted Vick. It was the Commish that said no. END OF DISCUSSION.

[Fan in Chicago]

The false reality that by simply "picking a QB" we would be in a better spot. The false reality that the Bills FO didnt/doesnt want to upgrade the QB position. The false reality that we never tried to get a QB. The false reality that we could have picked Rogers. The false reality that guys like McCoy and Clausen would have been an improvement.

 

Yes, several teams have drafted QBs, and I'd say the only ones that are really happy with their choice would be Panthers, Titans, Bengals, Colts and Redskins. That's 5 teams out of 15 or so picks. Or a 66% chance that the Bills, a team that needed to add as much talent as possible to this roster, would have missed on their pick. Take out Newton and Luck because we had zero chance at getting them, and we are down to 3 out of 15, or an 80% chance of failure.

 

NOT a good gamble to make for a team rebuilding its roster from the ground- up.

 

But I see the non-QB picks that we have and don't see a resounding success either save for a Dareus or Spiller. My point being that even though I don't have the data analysis of LiterateStylish, I can bet that you can apply the success rate you quoted to pretty much any position in the NFL and come up with a justification to not draft that position. Hassle is, QBs are few and good ones even less so. At the time the pick is to be made, there were atleast 2-3 choices over the past three drafts which could have been deemed risks worth taking (I am not talking about the first round).

Let me turn this argument around - should we ignore the QB position in the next draft also worried that the one we pick may bomb out ? How long does this last ? In the last draft itself I was screaming to take a QB so that he can sit behind Fitz and be ready when the rest of the team is ready to contend. But here we are in year 3 of the 'show me the baby' regime with no confidence that the stud surrogate father is fertile or has been shooting blanks. Even if we get a QB next draft, we will wait a year or two for him to develop. Bad strategy and quite depressing if you think about it. What has Fitz shown in the past 2+ years that gives anyone the warm fuzzy that he will not tank in a big game and throw away a roster full of talent (on D, OL, DL and RB)?

 

This is not over-reaction. This is the cumulative effect of this one game past Sunday piled upon a sucky last year. Sorry to go all BillsVet on you.

[KOKBILLS]

 

 

It's not "blind faith" in Fitz...they wanted to give the guy a second full season as a starter to prove himself. If he flops, they'll move on from him.

 

 

 

And just remember there were plenty of Folks around who don't even get paid to evaluate NFL QB's who told the Bills Fitz was a complete dead end...He is what he is and he's always going to be exactly that...He'll thrill ya one day, kill ya the next...Look it up...He's been doing it for a while now...There is history...Obviously The Bills don't know about that history, don't agree, or just don't care...And meanwhile that flop and get rid of him has cost them how many years? 2 Years is a lifetime in NFL football...

[Fan in Chicago]

Vick wanted to come here. The Bills wanted Vick. It was the Commish that said no. END OF DISCUSSION.

 

Why is it 'end of discussion' ?

[todzilla]

I agree that a bold move for a QB is needed. There is some of this that can be chalked up to bad timing too. Rodgers may have been a Bill today but they thought they had a future guy in Losman, who they did make a bold move for. You can say the Bills should have drafted Cutler, but chances are, if they felt a QB was what they wanted, Leinert would have been the pick. As mentioned, the Bills were very interested in Vick.

[DrDawkinstein]

But I see the non-QB picks that we have and don't see a resounding success either save for a Dareus or Spiller. My point being that even though I don't have the data analysis of LiterateStylish, I can bet that you can apply the success rate you quoted to pretty much any position in the NFL and come up with a justification to not draft that position. Hassle is, QBs are few and good ones even less so. At the time the pick is to be made, there were atleast 2-3 choices over the past three drafts which could have been deemed risks worth taking (I am not talking about the first round).

Let me turn this argument around - should we ignore the QB position in the next draft also worried that the one we pick may bomb out ? How long does this last ? In the last draft itself I was screaming to take a QB so that he can sit behind Fitz and be ready when the rest of the team is ready to contend. But here we are in year 3 of the 'show me the baby' regime with no confidence that the stud surrogate father is fertile or has been shooting blanks. Even if we get a QB next draft, we will wait a year or two for him to develop. Bad strategy and quite depressing if you think about it. What has Fitz shown in the past 2+ years that gives anyone the warm fuzzy that he will not tank in a big game and throw away a roster full of talent (on D, OL, DL and RB)?

 

This is not over-reaction. This is the cumulative effect of this one game past Sunday piled upon a sucky last year. Sorry to go all BillsVet on you.

 

Ha, no, I hear you. And I dont completely disagree with you. Especially with your point that there is risk with picking at any position. I guess my point is that QB picks are looked at so differently than others. If we pick a 3rd Round Linemen and he turns out just ok, no biggie. But look at how Trent Edwards has scarred us.

 

We definitely agree that we need to pick a QB as soon as possible. I think we just slightly disagree about our opportunities in the recent past.

 

Why is it 'end of discussion' ?

 

You cant use Vick as an example of a QB that the Bills overlooked when a deal was all but signed, and then the Commish stepped in and told him to go to Philly. To criticize the current FO for that is ridiculous. They DID try to get him. He WANTED to play here. It's not the FO's fault that the Commish stepped in and said "Im not reinstating you to play in Buffalo. Try Philly and you can come back". Why this doesnt get way more attention, I'll never understand. Huge conflict of interest and over-stepping his boundaries by the Commish, yet again.

[thebandit27]

The point is they are good with the Eagles...Not with other Teams...Is this getting too hard for you? We can slow down if you want...

 

Please explain to me what any of those players did with the Eagles...go ahead, I'll wait.

 

And just remember there were plenty of Folks around who don't even get paid to evaluate NFL QB's who told the Bills Fitz was a complete dead end...He is what he is and he's always going to be exactly that...He'll thrill ya one day, kill ya the next...Look it up...He's been doing it for a while now...There is history...Obviously The Bills don't know about that history, don't agree, or just don't care...And meanwhile that flop and get rid of him has cost them how many years? 2 Years is a lifetime in NFL football...

 

There are also plenty of folks around here that claimed Cam Newton was no good. That's the beauty of being a fan; you can say whatever you want and never, ever have to be accountable for it. It doesn't mean that you know any more than NFL front office people, it just means you were right/wrong one time...that's all.

 

And just remember there were plenty of Folks around who don't even get paid to evaluate NFL QB's who told the Bills Fitz was a complete dead end...He is what he is and he's always going to be exactly that...He'll thrill ya one day, kill ya the next...Look it up...He's been doing it for a while now...There is history...Obviously The Bills don't know about that history, don't agree, or just don't care...And meanwhile that flop and get rid of him has cost them how many years? 2 Years is a lifetime in NFL football...

 

The bolded...obviously they felt that--if given two full off-seasons as a starter, he could be the guy. Based on his last 10 NFL games, it's looking like they were wrong. Based on the 7 before that, it looked like they were right. His contract is actually pretty easy to get out of after this season, so it's not the end of the world.

 

Does that mean I'm happy with the current status of the team? No, but I'm also not ready to close the book on the whole team after one stinker.

 

Well if you believe you can't discuss the past without it being hindsight then that is your opinion.

 

Other people rather can point to the past as evidence of a trend that is still current and relevent.

 

To examine the past is one thing; to misrepresent it as a backbone to an argument is another.

 

Looking at the past, should they have drafted Cutler over Whitner? Yes. Shouldn't Tennessee and Arizona have drafted Cutler over Leinart and Young? Yes. Did all 3 teams have reasons for passing on the guys they did? Yes. Where you and I disagree is that you want to take issue with the fact that they didn't draft those guys without considering the situation at the time.

 

You've neglected the facts presented that oppose your position in each case. It's pretty simple: the team made a few moves for QBs in the last 10 years: Bledsoe, Losman, & Edwards most notably. They gave each guy a few years to prove himself, and it didn't work out. They wound up with Fitz, he showed some things, so they gave him the opportunity. When he looked like the guy early last year, they made an investment. If it doesn't work out, they'll move on.

 

You act like they haven't tried at all, when the real issue is that they've made bad investments at the position...not the same thing.

[KOKBILLS]

Except that they did spend a 3rd round pick on Edwards in 2007, just as I said in my previous post.

 

Ignore it if you want, but that's an attempt to get a QB.

 

They also traded for a QB this very off-season.

 

They also signed a former Heisman trophy winner this off-season.

 

If that's your point, then you're mistaken.

 

 

Don't confuse minor effort with efficiency...So since 2004 they Drafted Losman, Edwards, and Levi Brown...Traded for or signed Fitz, Jackson, Thigpen, and Young...None of these QB's has even remotely shown they can be a Top 10 caliber Signal Caller...So just over 8 years and these are the attempts that they have made...Knowing none of these QB's are remotely close to being a Franchise QB...It's no where near enough...Not even close...

 

 

There are also plenty of folks around here that claimed Cam Newton was no good. That's the beauty of being a fan; you can say whatever you want and never, ever have to be accountable for it. It doesn't mean that you know any more than NFL front office people, it just means you were right/wrong one time...that's all.

 

 

OK...You're just going to blindly defend so I see this is useless...I guess we need guys like you around here to keep things interesting...

[peterpan]

To examine the past is one thing; to misrepresent it as a backbone to an argument is another.

 

Looking at the past, should they have drafted Cutler over Whitner? Yes.

 

You act like they haven't tried at all, when the real issue is that they've made bad investments at the position...not the same thing.

 

I think you mis-read my post (which is understandable).

 

I wasn’t saying the Bills should have drafted Cutler, I was saying that they could have traded for him when he left Denver for Chicago. At that point he had proved himself as a very good, ‘franchise’ QB (yet granted, he is not elite). And yes, they still didn’t trade for Cutler, but why? At that point, 99% of the fans could tell Edwards was trash. So then the Bills either A) didn’t try to improve the position or B) are that incompetent they still believed Edwards was the savior.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, lack of effort or incompetence, but I would at least feel better about my team actively trying to get better, rather than passively hoping they get better.

Edited September 11, 2012 by peterpan

[thebandit27]

Don't confuse minor effort with efficiency...So since 2004 they Drafted Losman, Edwards, and Levi Brown...Traded for or signed Fitz, Jackson, Thigpen, and Young...None of these QB's has even remotely shown they can be a Top 10 caliber Signal Caller...So just over 8 years and these are the attempts that they have made...Knowing none of these QB's are remotely close to being a Franchise QB...It's no where near enough...Not even close...

 

 

OK...You're just going to blindly defend so I see this is useless...I guess we need guys like you around here to keep things interesting...

 

 

In what universe does stating: "they've made efforts, but they identified the wrong players" equate to defending? Are you sure you read my response?

 

My point was quite clear: nobody on this board "knew" that Fitz was a "dead end". You may have thought so, or even predicted it, but you didn't know. You aren't clairvoyant. Three years ago, people "knew" that Alex Smith was a "dead end" QB for San Francisco. Guess what? A good offensive coach came in and made him into a credible QB. Gailey/Nix clearly thought they could do the same. As of right now, it doesn't look like they can.

 

Please explain to me how this is blindly defending (and, for that matter, who I'm blindly defending)...I'm dying to know.

 

Or just ignore my statements again and continue thumping your chest; I guess we need guys like you around here to...well...hmmm...nevermind.

 

 

 

I think you mis-read my post (which is understandable).

 

I wasn’t saying the Bills should have drafted Cutler, I was saying that they could have traded for him when he left Denver for Chicago. At that point he had proved himself as a very good, ‘franchise’ QB (yet granted, he is not elite). And yes, they still didn’t trade for Cutler, but why? At that point, 99% of the fans could tell Edwards was trash. So then the Bills either A) didn’t try to improve the position or B) are that incompetent they still believed Edwards was the savior.

 

I'm not sure which is worse, lack of effort or incompetence, but I would at least feel better about my team actively trying to get better, rather than passively hoping they get better.

 

Indeed, they could have traded for him. It's kind of the same situation we have now with Fitz, where they clearly felt like they could coach Edwards into something credible. Man were they wrong.

 

As to your last statement, the incompetence is worse. You can try year after year (as, for the most part, I think this team has), but if you don't know what you're doing you'll never get anywhere.

[KOKBILLS]

In what universe does stating: "they've made efforts, but they identified the wrong players" equate to defending? Are you sure you read my response?

 

My point was quite clear: nobody on this board "knew" that Fitz was a "dead end". You may have thought so, or even predicted it, but you didn't know. You aren't clairvoyant. Three years ago, people "knew" that Alex Smith was a "dead end" QB for San Francisco. Guess what? A good offensive coach came in and made him into a credible QB. Gailey/Nix clearly thought they could do the same. As of right now, it doesn't look like they can.

 

Please explain to me how this is blindly defending (and, for that matter, who I'm blindly defending)...I'm dying to know.

 

Or just ignore my statements again and continue thumping your chest; I guess we need guys like you around here to...well...hmmm...nevermind.

 

I'm sorry...I am admittedly surly...I apologize...

[GG]

Haven't gone through this whole thread, but if I may jump to the conclusion - That for whatever mystical reasons for the water in Orchard Park, Buffalo Bills continue to be horrendous talent evaluators and groomers, no matter who has lead the team operations for the last 12 years.

 

Should that cover it?

[It's in My Blood]

Drew Brees – as a FA got little to no interest and went to a bad team in NO that was destroyed by Hurricane Katria. We neglected to pursue.

Joe Flacco – drafted 18^th overall. We have Leodis McKelvin

Jay Cutler – Traded for two 1^st and a 3^rd, instead we have/had Aaron Maybin, Spiller, and used the 3^rd to trade up for Levitre

Carson Palmer - Traded for a 1^st and a 2^nd, we have Gilmore and a 2^nd in next year’s draft (he looked pretty good in the game last night, granted I only watched the first half)

Andy Dalton – Drafted 2^nd round, we have Aaron Williams

Matt Schaub – Traded for 2 2nds in 07 and 08, we had Poz and James Hardy

Vick – Free Agent we neglected to pursue.

 

Other guys we could have drafted, without trading up or any other BS include: Aaron Rodgers, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Russell Wilson, K Cousins, Colt McCoy, Mallet, Tebow, Brandon Weeden.

 

We also could have tried to trade for Kolb or Cassell or pursued Matt Hasselback in FA.

 

Who knows who I am forgetting, but when are the Bills going to sack up and TRY – JURT TRY – to get a FRANCHISE quarterback?.

 

***For the record I am not saying we should have gotten all of these players, I am just pointing out all of the players we have passed on over the years.

 

Posts like these are so stupid it pisses me off. I could build a completely All-Pro roster with the "ones that got away" bull crap

[Adam]

We can get Matt Barkley in the offseason. I don't think he is elite, though

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

I don’t think the problem with the FO is them not trying to get a franchise QB, it’s that they keep thinking that they have one when most of us can already see that they don’t. Fitz is the perfect example…we all see his major flaws but Chan and Co appear to truly believe they can transform him into a franchise QB. It’s also why we passed on so many of these QBs…we already had our guy…or so the FO thought. Back to the drawing board.

Guess you havene;t seen what QB guru David Lee has done with Fitzy?

[John from Riverside]

All I know is this.....

 

This is the year....I will not support this QB one more year if he falls on his face. Im done after this year if Fitz doesnt show he can at least be a game manager for this team.