truth on hold Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) "I left the party because it was becoming an apocalyptic cult. Because you cannot govern a country of 310 million people that is the greatest economic power on earth and the greatest military power on earth as if it's a banana republic." http://truth-out.org...e-party-is-over Edited September 11, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Taking anything on truthoug.org seriously is a symptom of clinical insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Taking anything on truthoug.org Bill Moyers says seriously is a symptom of clinical insanity. My dog has a more productive output than Bill Moyers......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 My dog has a more productive output than Bill Moyers......... Kind of thing someone says when they want to avoid the subject ... attack the messenger not themessage kInd of thing. Seriously anything to say about the statements made by Mike Lofgren? a Fulbright scholar with two degrees in history when he went to work in Congress and became a senior staff member of the House and Senate Budget committees. His specialty was the cost of national security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Kind of thing someone says when they want to avoid the subject ... attack the messenger not themessage kInd of thing. Seriously anything to say about the statements made by Mike Lofgren? a Fulbright scholar with two degrees in history when he went to work in Congress and became a senior staff member of the House and Senate Budget committees. His specialty was the cost of national security. Okey-doke. Here are the first two statements by Mr Moyers and Mr. Lofgren in your link. Bill Moyers: The growing power of the religious right is one reason my guest left the Republican Party and became an Independent. "The mixture of politics and religion," he says, "debases both, and has turned the GOP into an apocalyptic sect Mike Lofgren: I think they went crazy when they started identifying Obama as the Antichrist Both statements are great examples of liberal fantasies. Look at the last five GOP candidates.......George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain, and now Mitt Romney, arguably not a conservative (and certainly not a Religious Right) candidate in the bunch. Not that that stopped the dems, and the media (repetition alert) from still portraying them that way. If anything the GOP still is too influenced by the DC insider/country club jokers. How often do we get the "I left the Republicans because they have moved to far to the religious right" story? About once a month for the past decade joe, its tired, and most people just rightly ignore it for the propoganda it is. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 The party's seeking to reverse abortion , don't ask don't tell, gay marriage and running to Israel slamming the Palestinians. The country is getting more socially liberal and wanting of a more balanced foreign policy and the RNC is getting more socially conservative and one sided in foreign affairs. And youre telling me the religious right is not influencing it? LOL check out the overlap between republican electoral states and the Bible belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The party's seeking to reverse abortion , don't ask don't tell, gay marriage and running to Israel slamming the Palestinians. The country is getting more socially liberal and wanting of a more balanced foreign policy and the RNC is getting more socially conservative and one sided in foreign affairs. And youre telling me the religious right is not influencing it? LOL check out the overlap between republican electoral states and the Bible belt. is that an echo I hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Lofgren's point is not that the religious right forced him out. His main point was the plutocracy forced him out. And he acknowledges the Dems are conflicted and ultimately very bad about it, but his experience in military budget and tax code analysis over time just led him to conclude after 30 years that the GOP exists almost exclusively at it's core to protect the wealthy contributors that keep them in power. Being a budget man at his core he concluded that the budget rhetoric spouted by the GOP is merely political manipulation as the Bush tax cuts and the 2 wars are more responsible for our debt explosion than anything else...and given that the GOP (notably Ryan himself) fought to kill Simpson-Bowles (which many Dems didn't mind) which lowered rates, broadened the base, eliminated loopholes and slashed trillions in spending (the same principles they claim to advocate) ... this could not happen if it resulted in revenue increase at the expense of their wealthy donors. He also talks about the war culture and the anti-intellectual thrust of the political advertising and that did irk him...but his primary concerns were clear hypocrisy on issues of money and war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Lofgren's point is not that the religious right forced him out. His main point was the plutocracy forced him out. And he acknowledges the Dems are conflicted and ultimately very bad about it, but his experience in military budget and tax code analysis over time just led him to conclude after 30 years that the GOP exists almost exclusively at it's core to protect the wealthy contributors that keep them in power. Being a budget man at his core he concluded that the budget rhetoric spouted by the GOP is merely political manipulation as the Bush tax cuts and the 2 wars are more responsible for our debt explosion than anything else...and given that the GOP (notably Ryan himself) fought to kill Simpson-Bowles (which many Dems didn't mind) which lowered rates, broadened the base, eliminated loopholes and slashed trillions in spending (the same principles they claim to advocate) ... this could not happen if it resulted in revenue increase at the expense of their wealthy donors. He also talks about the war culture and the anti-intellectual thrust of the political advertising and that did irk him...but his primary concerns were clear hypocrisy on issues of money and war. Change wealthy contributors to "unions" and you have your democrats. More than social security, medicaid and medicare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Change wealthy contributors to "unions" and you have your democrats. More than social security, medicaid and medicare? Believe it or not, yes. Edited September 11, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Believe it or not, yes. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 That's one of his other huge issues. Is he see the tax cuts at all costs + military adventures as huge problems they don't talk about while all the time insisting things like healthcare and retirement are things we can't afford...but of course we can afford to run the rest of the world just not the homeland (he has a interesting take on the term "homeland" also hehe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 That's one of his other huge issues. Is he see the tax cuts at all costs + military adventures as huge problems they don't talk about while all the time insisting things like healthcare and retirement are things we can't afford...but of course we can afford to run the rest of the world just not the homeland (he has a interesting take on the term "homeland" also hehe) Is that what you consider proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Is that what you consider proof? It's his thesus not mine. He put the direct costs (not including funds funneled to agencies such as homeland security) to amount to about 1.7 trillion (nothing paid for) while the tax cuts themselves ... I can't recall what he had to say about the Bush Tax cuts in numbers but it was big...here's on graph a google search produces that is not his work so for what it's worth (it doesn't work for this discussion other than to show the tax cut impact relative to the war figure) and his overall criticism being a military spending nut was the institution of constantly increasing the budget no matter what perceived threat need be manufactured and no matter how superior our military becomes...he gave detailed descriptions of the lobby industry for military goodies and how they are in bed w/ the military itself and nobody on the hill dare question any of it lest they be "soft"... Basically his work is really depressing. He hits the entire spectrum and describes how he has seen it develop over 30 years. Senate tactics, money, military, anti-intellectual pandering, media, religion....he really harps on the tax and military issues b/c that's what he knows best. He blasts the Dems where they are the same for what it's worth although nobody on this board will see him as a credible source on anything I'm sure... Edited September 11, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) It's his thesus not mine. He put the direct costs (not including funds funneled to agencies such as homeland security) to amount to about 1.7 trillion (nothing paid for) while the tax cuts themselves ... I can't recall what he had to say about the Bush Tax cuts in numbers but it was big...here's on graph a google search produces that is not his work so for what it's worth (it doesn't work for this discussion other than to show the tax cut impact relative to the war figure) and his overall criticism being a military spending nut was the institution of constantly increasing the budget no matter what perceived threat need be manufactured and no matter how superior our military becomes...he gave detailed descriptions of the lobby industry for military goodies and how they are in bed w/ the military itself and nobody on the hill dare question any of it lest they be "soft"... Basically his work is really depressing. He hits the entire spectrum and describes how he has seen it develop over 30 years. Senate tactics, money, military, anti-intellectual pandering, media, religion....he really harps on the tax and military issues b/c that's what he knows best. He blasts the Dems where they are the same for what it's worth although nobody on this board will see him as a credible source on anything I'm sure... Overspending causes debt. Edited September 11, 2012 by Gary M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Overspending causes debt. Very good Gary, good boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Very good Gary, good boy! Well at least we agree on that, now let's see what we can cut to balance the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Well at least we agree on that, now let's see what we can cut to balance the budget. According the Lofrgren under no circumstances things that would result in the wealthy paying more. 10-1 spending cuts for revenue increases got no love in the primaries. After roundly rejecting debt ceiling deals (something everyone loves to talk about here) they ultimately agree to a smaller debt reduction and fewer spending cuts in order to protect the donor class. Lowering taxes on the most favored elements of society is the sole object of the GOP fiscal policy. They are no serious about deficit reduction. - lofgren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) . Lowering taxes on the most favored elements of society is the sole object of the GOP fiscal policy. They are no serious about deficit reduction. - lofgren They are the only ones paying taxes, so they are the only ones that can have their taxes lowered. Edited September 11, 2012 by Gary M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It's his thesus not mine. He put the direct costs (not including funds funneled to agencies such as homeland security) to amount to about 1.7 trillion (nothing paid for) while the tax cuts themselves ... I can't recall what he had to say about the Bush Tax cuts in numbers but it was big...here's on graph a google search produces that is not his work so for what it's worth (it doesn't work for this discussion other than to show the tax cut impact relative to the war figure) and his overall criticism being a military spending nut was the institution of constantly increasing the budget no matter what perceived threat need be manufactured and no matter how superior our military becomes...he gave detailed descriptions of the lobby industry for military goodies and how they are in bed w/ the military itself and nobody on the hill dare question any of it lest they be "soft"... Basically his work is really depressing. He hits the entire spectrum and describes how he has seen it develop over 30 years. Senate tactics, money, military, anti-intellectual pandering, media, religion....he really harps on the tax and military issues b/c that's what he knows best. He blasts the Dems where they are the same for what it's worth although nobody on this board will see him as a credible source on anything I'm sure... I call bull **** on any graph that shows the Afghanistan war's contribution to the deficits started a year after the war started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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