CosmicBills Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 It's pure fairness bias to act like the GOP is equally dysfunctional in this moment. It's simply not true. Why do you feel this is somehow not a real "stand" to say this opinion out loud and merely "continues the cycle of division"? Do I really need to explain how blanket statements like the above continues the cycle of division? It accomplishes nothing but to further divide an already divided nation. You offer no solutions, just more finger pointing. You want to vent? Cool. But doing so by putting on airs is not only counter productive, it's disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Do I really need to explain how blanket statements like the above continues the cycle of division? It accomplishes nothing but to further divide an already divided nation. You offer no solutions, just more finger pointing. You want to vent? Cool. But doing so by putting on airs is not only counter productive, it's disingenuous. One 30 year/now retired GOP man venting worth reading, however much "finger pointing" you consider it to be. When the truth is that one party is in fact more dysfunctional. that's my what I end up saying. http://theragblog.bl...t-gop-cult.html Edited September 11, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 One 30 year/now retired GOP man venting worth reading, however much "finger pointing" you consider it to be. When the truth is that one party is in fact more dysfunctional. that's my what I end up saying. http://theragblog.bl...t-gop-cult.html I don't consider it "finger pointing". The dictionary does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I don't consider it "finger pointing". The dictionary does. For the sake of discussion, and I'll listen with an open mind...what are some things you see as wrong with either party and how are the basically equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) And really if you don't want to get into everything (which is preferable I think from both our stand points) ... a simple explanation, as you see it, as to why Huntsman candidacy was DOA while every cook-and-cranny had a shot a Mitt for a few weeks a least will do. It's been a gradual shedding of what was once a coalition...but there is now a litmus test on fiscal (not 1 dime more from the rich, 39% w/ loopholes might as well be communism), social (abortion, gays, any threat at home that fits for the moment), and foreign policy (right of Dems at least, usually far right but now the country is a bit weary and they realize that). Following the election of Obama and the 2010 midterms...the insanity kicked into a new gear...the fringe controlled the center and congress turned into the biggest joke it has ever been....all of this culminating IMO w/ the freak show primary we saw unfold w/ awe. This is pointing the finger? Yes. I agree that the Dems suck, are useless, and are too busy fighting each other, keeping their own crazies under control, and too beholden to their own financial interests to do anything about anything (see healthcare, see financial reform). But that doesn't mean it's just all equal. Edited September 11, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Oh we get it, better than you in fact. Repeal Obamacare and replace it "Get sick and die" care. As for the loopholes, they will eliminate home mortgage deductions, charitable deductions, etc, but not the corporate jet deduction because, you know, job creators can't fly commercial. Face it. Romney is going to lose because no one like him. Not even Republicans. The GOP is controlled by its fringes and you wind up with what you have. No, you really don't get it, and neither do your leaders because none of them bothered to read it before they passed it. Because unless you have private insurance, under Obamacare, you'll be getting sick and dying trying to get medical care. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) No, you really don't get it, and neither do your leaders because none of them bothered to read it before they passed it. Because unless you have private insurance, under Obamacare, you'll be getting sick and dying trying to get medical care. Sound familiar? Uhhhhh, "Obamacare" is 100% private insurance. There is no government plan unless you are on Medicare or Medicaid. Cripes, are you that badly informed that you believe "Obamacare" is some government-run health system??? Remember the individual mandate that everyone has their panties in a wad over? That is a requirement to buy private insurance! You have to stop wathching Fox News, buddy. Obama at 79.3% chance of victory. Better start planning for 2016. PTR Edited September 11, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Uhhhhh, "Obamacare" is 100% private insurance. There is no government plan unless you are on Medicare or Medicaid. Cripes, are you that badly informed that you believe "Obamacare" is some government-run health system??? Remember the individual mandate that everyone has their panties in a wad over? That is a requirement to buy private insurance! You have to stop wathching Fox News, buddy. Obama at 79.3% chance of victory. Better start planning for 2016. PTR He knows that, it was his point. He would slit his mother's throat to avoid a public payer, but that doesn't stop him from bashing the only other reform that can cover preexisting conditions and accomplish a slew of other improvements (while admittedly bringing on new problems). Point being, don't tell anyone to get ready for 2016 or even 2014....that's our problem. If there was 1...that would be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) Uhhhhh, "Obamacare" is 100% private insurance. There is no government plan unless you are on Medicare or Medicaid. Cripes, are you that badly informed that you believe "Obamacare" is some government-run health system??? Remember the individual mandate that everyone has their panties in a wad over? That is a requirement to buy private insurance! You have to stop wathching Fox News, buddy. Obama at 79.3% chance of victory. Better start planning for 2016. You mean the individual mandate that makes it cheaper to not have insurance, and then buy it when you need it and drop it when you don't? What about the expansion in Medicaid? The 30M more people being added to an already strained system? Stop watching the idiot children on CNN who think life is some fantasy world under Barry, whose reign of error will be over soon as more bad economic news comes out. Edited September 11, 2012 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 He knows that, it was his point. He would slit his mother's throat to avoid a public payer, but that doesn't stop him from bashing the only other reform that can cover preexisting conditions and accomplish a slew of other improvements (while admittedly bringing on new problems). Point being, don't tell anyone to get ready for 2016 or even 2014....that's our problem. If there was 1...that would be it. With the way most people treat their bodies like garbage cans, why the hell you would want to chip in to a single payer system is beyond me. Uhhhhh, "Obamacare" is 100% private insurance. There is no government plan unless you are on Medicare or Medicaid. Cripes, are you that badly informed that you believe "Obamacare" is some government-run health system??? Remember the individual mandate that everyone has their panties in a wad over? That is a requirement to buy private insurance! You have to stop wathching Fox News, buddy. Obama at 79.3% chance of victory. Better start planning for 2016. PTR So the polls are almost tied and yet he has a 79.3%? I don't consider it "finger pointing". The dictionary does. It's unfair that you would hold him to the kind of standard that would require him to open a book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It's unfair that you would hold him to the kind of standard that would require him to open a book. So you are here to tell me the current state of the GOP is every bit as sound as the current Democratic party and that it's pure finger pointing to suggest otherwise? There's no ingrained trends in political discourse, or platform...that would give a neutral observer reason to suspect one party may be a bit more rotten at the moment than another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 He knows that, it was his point. He would slit his mother's throat to avoid a public payer, but that doesn't stop him from bashing the only other reform that can cover preexisting conditions and accomplish a slew of other improvements (while admittedly bringing on new problems). Point being, don't tell anyone to get ready for 2016 or even 2014....that's our problem. If there was 1...that would be it. Don't think you know me, much less speak for me. Especially since I've already stated that a good portion of my practice is Medicare and Medicaid. As for the reforms, they could have been accomplished without 2,000 pages and a $3T (so far, and it's sure to go up) price tag. As Romney has stated, he'd repeal Obamacare and replace it with the good things that Obamacare has (which, surprise surprise, were instituted before the election, while the onerous stuff comes after the election) like covering pre-existing conditions and allowing children to stay on their parent's plan for several years more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Don't think you know me, much less speak for me. Especially since I've already stated that a good portion of my practice is Medicare and Medicaid. As for the reforms, they could have been accomplished without 2,000 pages and a $3T (so far, and it's sure to go up) price tag. As Romney has stated, he'd repeal Obamacare and replace it with the good things that Obamacare has (which, surprise surprise, were instituted before the election, while the onerous stuff comes after the election) like covering pre-existing conditions and allowing children to stay on their parent's plan for several years more. Preexisting conditions is not in effect yet for adults. There are two ways to deal with this regardless of what Romney says (btw Romney knows this). Single payor...or mandate. Now I know the mandate is terrible...despite the fact that it was a former GOP mainstay...but then again "we were always at war w/ mandates" (see: 1984). If companies have to take all comers, then everyone must have insurance at all times, of course you can't mandate something people can't afford so you must expand coverage for the poor and provide incentives for small business as well as discounts in the exchange, and to do all this you must have a funding source (however counterintuitive the scheme may be). There isn't some "common sense reform"...regardless of what the GOP would have you believe, that is so brilliant and different from what we have now...except for of course...single payor...which isn't perfect either but is probably the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) So, Mitt refused to flip-flop, knowing he would lose a vote, while Obama flip-flopped hoping to gain votes. C'mon..is there an issue that Mitt hasn't flip-flopped on in all of this years of running for office/offices. To pretend he has all of this virtue, while his oppenant is somehow different, is, as you always love to say is being "intellectually dishonest". Edited September 11, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Preexisting conditions is not in effect yet for adults. There are two ways to deal with this regardless of what Romney says (btw Romney knows this). Single payor...or mandate. Now I know the mandate is terrible...despite the fact that it was a former GOP mainstay...but then again "we were always at war w/ mandates" (see: 1984). If companies have to take all comers, then everyone must have insurance at all times, of course you can't mandate something people can't afford so you must expand coverage for the poor and provide incentives for small business as well as discounts in the exchange, and to do all this you must have a funding source (however counterintuitive the scheme may be). There isn't some "common sense reform"...regardless of what the GOP would have you believe, that is so brilliant and different from what we have now...except for of course...single payor...which isn't perfect either but is probably the best option. Preexisting conditions is not in effect yet for adults. There are two ways to deal with this regardless of what Romney says (btw Romney knows this). Single payor...or mandate. Now I know the mandate is terrible...despite the fact that it was a former GOP mainstay...but then again "we were always at war w/ mandates" (see: 1984). If companies have to take all comers, then everyone must have insurance at all times, of course you can't mandate something people can't afford so you must expand coverage for the poor and provide incentives for small business as well as discounts in the exchange, and to do all this you must have a funding source (however counterintuitive the scheme may be). There isn't some "common sense reform"...regardless of what the GOP would have you believe, that is so brilliant and different from what we have now...except for of course...single payor...which isn't perfect either but is probably the best option. And then cap rate increases while leaving costs unchecked, and make sure the disincentives to being uninsured are cheaper than the incentives, mix well and simmer for 20 years, and...BAM! Fiscal collapse. It's a dumb law. C'mon..is there an issue that Mitt hasn't flip-flopped evolved on in all of this years of running for office/offices. To pretend he has all of this virtue, while his oppenant is somehow different, is, as you always love to say is being "intellectually dishonest". There's some intellectual dishonesty for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 C'mon..is there an issue that Mitt hasn't flip-flopped on in all of this years of running for office/offices. To pretend he has all of this virtue, while his oppenant is somehow different, is, as you always love to say is being "intellectually dishonest". I have to admit, watching liberals criticizing anyone for flip-flopping is like reading a book written by Anthony Weiner called "Beware Sexual Predators on Twitter." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It's a dumb law. So we're waiting on this "replace" law that is so much better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 So we're waiting on this "replace" law that is so much better.... Yeah. That's supposed to be some sort of counter-argument? The law that "replaces" it might not be any better, so we should keep the current train wreck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Yeah. That's supposed to be some sort of counter-argument? The law that "replaces" it might not be any better, so we should keep the current train wreck? Isn't that the same argument people use for re-electing Barry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The GOP is controlled by its fringes and you wind up with what you have. PTR Politics makes people insane. The GOP is "controlled by its fringes", yet we ended up with the most moderate (I suppose you might say that Huntsman was the most moderate, but he was never a real candidate... but if it makes anyone feel better, by all means, substitute 'second most moderate' for 'most moderate' if you'd like) of the Republican candidates as the nominee? Can you try and square that circle for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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