We Model our Defense after the Giants?? This could be a long year.

[BringBackFergy]

I stopped reading the replies when it was clear 98% were just people slamming you down with homerism justice.

 

That being said, there is reason for concern on the defense regardless of whatever anyone wants to believe. There is also immense potential to be great. We won't really know anything until we get to see them take the field and start establishing what we are made of this year.

 

The concerns you have are valid, although I didn't get that from watching the Giants last night, its from watching this D last year and in the preseason. We have a terrible time of stopping short timing routes for about a decade now. Welker and Brady look like kids in their back yard just throwing the pig skin around with no defense...hell same for Gronk and Brady...Hernandez and Brady...etc. No question, the front line is going to be dominant IMO and great at developing pressure on the QB. However, I saw a lot of wide open holes and easy runs against them this preseason. I only hope it was more of the Vanilla D and the fact that front 4 were set and they played less intense to avoid injury. Our LB's have been suspect all preseason and they were last year, so if are front four struggle with run defense, then it could be problematic with our LB's. We will have no real additions to LB core, so one has to hope our group gets better because of a better front line. I am really hoping Nigel steps up and cracks this lineup as we can use his tenacity and speed out there.

 

Our DB's have talent no doubt, but lets see how they do when the bullets really fly. Their issue is lack of experience, so hopefully they continue to get better as the year goes on as they will be repeatedly tested by the opposing OC every week until they prove they are up for the challenge. Losing Brooks is going to bigger than people think. He had been performing as good as anyone this camp and preseason and was going to be a great guy to have on the field when we play the pass happy teams like NE. We can only hope McGee stays healthy, and thats a big question mark right now.

 

So, while I feel this D has immense potential, its not without real question marks that only the season beginning can answer. I still say we finish in the top 10, but some would say that's a bit optimistic and can't really argue with them until the D shows us what we got.

 

Yes sir. Good point and well said. Go Bills!!!

[Malazan]

I stopped reading the replies when it was clear 98% were just people slamming you down with homerism justice.

 

No, people are slamming it because the Giants defense playing Dallas doesn't mean one thing about the Bills defense regardless of what concerns there are about the Bills defense.

[syhuang]

No, people are slamming it because the Giants defense playing Dallas doesn't mean one thing about the Bills defense regardless of what concerns there are about the Bills defense.

 

Yes sir. Good point and well said. Go Bills!!!

[thewildrabbit]

So we model our defense after the Giants (big pass rushers, rush the QB, pressures, sacks, etc) but we have a mediocre linebacking crew and a young secondary (with the exception of Wilson).

 

If Tony Romo can pick that defense apart with quick slant routes and a solid running game from Murray and a fill-in O-line, are we looking at a similar fate this season?? I understand Tebow may not have the timing to execute a quick slant route to a receiver, but I'm sure Sanchez can....if our pass rush is super charged, it means nothing if they can throw 5-10 yd quick slants and gain first downs at will. Our secondary and linebackers better be ready.

Jeez, you mean the same kinds of game plan the Bills went into the meadowlands last year against the Giants and lost?

 

 

I think Cowboys WR Kevin Ogletree proved the point about how serious an issue it is to have really good 2nd & 3rd WR's on the team. Its sorta easy for any team to cover one good WR, more difficult to cover two, and very difficult to cover 3 or more. Its why the Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last season, and yet the offense was so potent it didn't matter all the way up until the last game of the season.

 

But, that last game for the Patriots was against the NY Giants, who beat the Patriots while putting great pressure on the QB. so....

[thebandit27]

Jeez, you mean the same kinds of game plan the Bills went into the meadowlands last year against the Giants and lost?

 

 

I think Cowboys WR Kevin Ogletree proved the point about how serious an issue it is to have really good 2nd & 3rd WR's on the team. Its sorta easy for any team to cover one good WR, more difficult to cover two, and very difficult to cover 3 or more. Its why the Patriots had one of the worst defenses in the NFL last season, and yet the offense was so potent it didn't matter all the way up until the last game of the season.

 

But, that last game for the Patriots was against the NY Giants, who beat the Patriots while putting great pressure on the QB. so....

 

I think it had way more to do with the fact that the Giants went into the game missing Terrell Thomas & Prince Amukamara, and then subsequently lost Michael Coe in the 2nd quarter. When you're down to your #5 CB covering the other team's #2 WR, the other team's #3 WR is primed to have a big game...I don't care who he is.

[thewildrabbit]

I think it had way more to do with the fact that the Giants went into the game missing Terrell Thomas & Prince Amukamara, and then subsequently lost Michael Coe in the 2nd quarter. When you're down to your #5 CB covering the other team's #2 WR, the other team's #3 WR is primed to have a big game...I don't care who he is.

You could be right, then again we will have to see how Ogletree plays the rest of the year. Something tells me he will have a good year. Also, I have a difficult time believing Donald Jones or David Nelson would have 8 catches for 114 yards and 2 TD's if the Bills had played the Giants.

[BUFFALOTONE]

You do realize that the giants secondary is full of 3rd stringers right? The 1st and 2nd stringers are injured....And they still were in that game.

 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story Sir.

[Maury Ballstein]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story Sir.

 

 

So the bills aren't going to use the Giants DB's vs the Jets ? Im so confused by all this nonsense.

[Pneumonic]

The Bills model their defense after the Giants in so much as they want to have a dominating pass rush out of their front 4. Then again, so does every defense in the league.

 

Where the Giants defense differs greatly from that of the Bills (and other teams) is how they generate said front 4 pass rush much of the time. For the Giants, at critical times, they employ 4 DE's along the front 4 (ie NASCAR package) and cause matchup issues (confusion) because the OL doesn't know who is going to lineup where. This is what troubled the Pats so much in those SB games.The Bills, OTOH, don't have 4 DE's to lineup along the front 4 like the Giants have. What the Bills will rely on is your traditional 2-DT inside, 2-DE outside sets and will look to straight win their battle opposite the OL versus causing confusion in the blocking schemes like the NASCAR provides.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pneumonic

[NewEra]

I agree with the OP to an extent. I believe in order for this defense to really be dominant, we need to rush more than our front 4. The giants had 3 sacks the other night. All the sacks occurred when they rushed 5 or more. While our secondary is better than the giants (IMO), I'm not sure our LBs are good enough in coverage to lock the offenses down. Working in our favor this year is our competition at QB. Brady and schaub are the only qbs I'd consider to be very good. I really hope we plan on bringing the blitz more often than the giants did on Wednesday (11 times).

[metzelaars_lives]

my nominee for worst thread of the year

 

Obviously I didn't take the time to read any more of the responses but I suspect many of them were in line with this one. Either this guy is trying to be the new crayonz or this is in fact the dumbest thread I have ever seen.

[BringBackFergy]

I agree with the OP to an extent. I believe in order for this defense to really be dominant, we need to rush more than our front 4. The giants had 3 sacks the other night. All the sacks occurred when they rushed 5 or more. While our secondary is better than the giants (IMO), I'm not sure our LBs are good enough in coverage to lock the offenses down. Working in our favor this year is our competition at QB. Brady and schaub are the only qbs I'd consider to be very good. I really hope we plan on bringing the blitz more often than the giants did on Wednesday (11 times).

 

If we rush more than our front four (i.e. blitz LB's or safeties) aren't we going to further expose ourselves to long gains on quick slant routes over the middle. Once again, I'm not comparing our defense as a whole to any other team...the comparison to the Giants has to do only with our goal in the offseason to increase sacks and QB pressures which the media likened to the Giants approach (rush the passer and reap the benefit of quick/rushed throws and increase your takeaways). Just sayin' (and doing a horrible job at it) that no matter who you are playing, if the offense can run the ball through Sheppard (assuming our front four tie up their O Line) or if they can execute quick slant passes, screens, they will effectively take our front four out of the game. As much as I love our D Line (and our team in general) Dallas was one example of how to neutralize an above average front four. Hence, our CB's (like Aaron Williams) best be ready for Holmes and Company to catch quick throws. We can't play the "stand off...bend but don't break Defense". After watching all four preseason games, the number of mistackles and jock straps laying on the field after a TE or WR blows by our young CB's is frustrating. They will be busy every Sunday because offensvie coordinators will not be looking for long passing routes (for fear of being sacked or flushed); they will look to dump off quick and move the chains with YAC.

 

Obviously I didn't take the time to read any more of the responses but I suspect many of them were in line with this one. Either this guy is trying to be the new crayonz or this is in fact the dumbest thread I have ever seen.

 

This very well may be the worst thread ever based solely on my inability to express my thoughts clearly in words....and that's coming from a lawyer. Go figure.

[GG]

Obviously I didn't take the time to read any more of the responses but I suspect many of them were in line with this one. Either this guy is trying to be the new crayonz or this is in fact the dumbest thread I have ever seen.

 

Again, if you actually take the time to read through the OP and subsequent clarifications, the concern is absolutely valid.

 

It can be distilled as - Bills' new DL has often been compared to Giants' DL in the media and on these pages. There are many posts asking whether this is the best starting front four in the league. Perhaps. And for that alone, Bills have addressed a significant concern that's plagued them for over a decade. But that part does not mention how opposing offensive coordinators will game plan around the Bills' new found strength on the DL. A simple look at the roster shows a glaring weakspot - the LB position. The OP was simply using an ANALOGY of how Cowboys were able to exploit the Giants' weakness (LBs & DBs) to take away their strength (DL). To me, it's a very applicable comparison, especially in seeing how poorly Bills' LBs and DBs executed the fundamentals of tackling and containment in the preseason. We can chalk a lot to preseason's lack of game plans for poor play, but there is no excuse for missing tackles and assignments. Where do you think Rex Ryan is focusing his offensive game plan this week? Does Arthur Moats in coverage really scare him. I fully expect a lot of 1-3 step drops or rollouts by Sanchise this week. That's why this game will rely on our LBs and DBs stepping into the void.

 

I don't know why it's such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

Yes, the Bills' offense will need to do its part to help a winning season, but its task will be as big as last year if the LBs don't show up this year (as the OP made it clear)

[BillsVet]

I fully expect a lot of 1-3 step drops or rollouts by Sanchise this week. That's why this game will rely on our LBs and DBs stepping into the void.

 

I think we've already seen this in the pre-season. At Minnesota, Ponder was 10-13 for 136 and a score despite being sacked twice in starter versus starter play. The yards total is misleading because there was some good YAC by the MIN receivers.

 

 

 

 

[BringBackFergy]

Again, if you actually take the time to read through the OP and subsequent clarifications, the concern is absolutely valid.

 

It can be distilled as - Bills' new DL has often been compared to Giants' DL in the media and on these pages. There are many posts asking whether this is the best starting front four in the league. Perhaps. And for that alone, Bills have addressed a significant concern that's plagued them for over a decade. But that part does not mention how opposing offensive coordinators will game plan around the Bills' new found strength on the DL. A simple look at the roster shows a glaring weakspot - the LB position. The OP was simply using an ANALOGY of how Cowboys were able to exploit the Giants' weakness (LBs & DBs) to take away their strength (DL). To me, it's a very applicable comparison, especially in seeing how poorly Bills' LBs and DBs executed the fundamentals of tackling and containment in the preseason. We can chalk a lot to preseason's lack of game plans for poor play, but there is no excuse for missing tackles and assignments. Where do you think Rex Ryan is focusing his offensive game plan this week? Does Arthur Moats in coverage really scare him. I fully expect a lot of 1-3 step drops or rollouts by Sanchise this week. That's why this game will rely on our LBs and DBs stepping into the void.

 

I don't know why it's such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

Yes, the Bills' offense will need to do its part to help a winning season, but its task will be as big as last year if the LBs don't show up this year (as the OP made it clear)

 

Thanks for taking my brain...decoding it...and writing my thoughts down.

[Malazan]

But that part does not mention how opposing offensive coordinators will game plan around the Bills' new found strength on the DL.

 

It's pretty surprising the offensive co-ordinatiors weren't doing this before or for like, the entire history of the league. You'd think they'd plan every season for weaknesses and defensive co-ordinators would counter and so on! I bet we'll see a lot of this 'planning' this season and going forward. Sounds like the next fad!

 

To me, it's a very applicable comparison, especially in seeing how poorly Bills' LBs and DBs executed the fundamentals of tackling and containment in the preseason. We can chalk a lot to preseason's lack of game plans for poor play, but there is no excuse for missing tackles and assignments.

 

Man, I missed the Giants having problems with missed tackles last night. Strange. Hopefully you can point out these issues with plays from the game.

 

Where do you think Rex Ryan is focusing his offensive game plan this week? Does Arthur Moats in coverage really scare him. I fully expect a lot of 1-3 step drops or rollouts by Sanchise this week. That's why this game will rely on our LBs and DBs stepping into the void.

 

How does that relate to the Giant playing Dallas again?

 

 

I don't know why it's such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

It's not difficult to grasp. It's just entirely irrelevant. If you wanted to complain about weaknesses in the Bills defense, then there were already threads for that. I understand there are people like you who just want to rail against the perceived slight from the Bills not listening to you and making all the rosters moves you would make, but that still has nothing to do with the Giants.

 

Yes, the Bills' offense will need to do its part to help a winning season, but its task will be as big as last year if the LBs don't show up this year (as the OP made it clear)

 

LBs aren't generally considered part of the front four.

[BillsBytheBay]

im not even worried about it. this game against the Jets, is the first game I'll use to formulate on opinion of the team this year. nobody is going to remember the pre season, regardles of the out come of the season. the Giants just played a bad game. the Pats did lose to us last year... ; /

[GG]

It's pretty surprising the offensive co-ordinatiors weren't doing this before or for like, the entire history of the league. You'd think they'd plan every season for weaknesses and defensive co-ordinators would counter and so on! I bet we'll see a lot of this 'planning' this season and going forward. Sounds like the next fad!

 

 

 

Man, I missed the Giants having problems with missed tackles last night. Strange. Hopefully you can point out these issues with plays from the game.

 

 

 

How does that relate to the Giant playing Dallas again?

 

 

 

 

It's not difficult to grasp. It's just entirely irrelevant. If you wanted to complain about weaknesses in the Bills defense, then there were already threads for that. I understand there are people like you who just want to rail against the perceived slight from the Bills not listening to you and making all the rosters moves you would make, but that still has nothing to do with the Giants.

 

 

 

LBs aren't generally considered part of the front four.

 

Are you being intentionally dense or are preternaturally an idiot?

 

Read the posts again. No one is saying that the Bills D is a carbon copy of the Giants D. The only thing that people are saying is that even with a monster DL, the other guys on defense have to step up because the offensive coordinators will game plan around the strength of the DL. Giants made a lot of mistakes in that game, but if you watched it, you would have seen that there were very few plays where Romo dropped 7 steps back and stayed in the pocket. That was a specific offensive design by Garrett to minimize Giants' advantage. No one should be surprised by that, and that's what Bills should expect until they can show that the LBs are good enough to stop the quick passes. That's why that game was used as an example. Nobody is going to use Steelers and Ravens as examples of how to game plan against a Bills' D.

 

If there's one play that probably nails the point is the play of the game for Giants' D. Dallas with a 3rd & 12 with 2 minutes to go. A situation like that plays into the hands of a team with a strong DL. But Romo drops back two steps,hits a quick slant to Oggletree, which the LBs & DBs were slow to pick up. Game over. That's all we're saying. It's unlikely teams will play the long ball on the Bills, and based on what we've seen, expect a heavy dose of screens and slants that have a good chance of picking up big yards.

[FastFreddy22]

garbage post