Woodward's new book on debt deal collapse puts the onus on Obama

[John Adams]

Thanks for the insight Mr. A.

 

I suppose being a creature of Congress for so many years, deal-making is exactly where Mr. Biden would do well, its certainly not in the administrative side.

 

It's absolutely the case. And Obama's complete inability to sit in a contentious room and hammer out a deal (or even have a conversation) with people he disagrees is a huge liability in this. The Congresscritters, whose job it is to hammer out deals, come across much better than Obama. Granted the Pres does not have to be as Monty Hall as the Congressmen, but still, what is clear is Obama has ZERO ability to do biz. He just speechifies.

 

Anyways, for all Biden's "crazy Uncle Joe" stuff, he was doing the important work on that debt deal. Biden (and Cantor) almost made it happen until Obama and Boehner a$$-fu$%ed it over party politics.

Edited September 20, 2012 by John Adams

[DC Tom]

It's absolutely the case. And Obama's complete inability to sit in a contentious room and hammer out a deal (or even have a conversation) with people he disagrees is a huge liability in this. The Congresscritters, whose job it is to hammer out deals, come across much better than Obama. Granted the Pres does not have to be as Monty Hall as the Congressmen, but still, what is clear is Obama has ZERO ability to do biz. He just speechifies.

 

Anyways, for all Biden's "crazy Uncle Joe" stuff, he was doing the important work on that debt deal. Biden (and Cantor) almost made it happen until Obama and Boehner a$$-fu$%ed it over party politics.

 

That's nothing new. Same thing happened with TARP. Bunch of people actually cooperated to get a deal hammered out...then Pelosi and the House Republicans went all kindergarteners-without-naps on everything.

[John Adams]

That's nothing new. Same thing happened with TARP. Bunch of people actually cooperated to get a deal hammered out...then Pelosi and the House Republicans went all kindergarteners-without-naps on everything.

 

The same thing happened here. Cantor and Kyl were little bitches about refusing any tax increase, and wanted 90% of the deficit reduction to come from Dem sacred cows. And though I agree with that in principle, we (the good ole USA) desperately need this deal done, so I'd have hoped they'd cave on tax increases in order to accomplish the bigger goal. But no.

 

Then Obama and Boehner got going and took the Biden/Cantor work and made a 2 person deal without talking to their camps, which was all well and good over cigarettes and beers, but complete stupidity since the rank and file in politics never falls into rank, even when it's an issue as crucial as this.

 

Biden and Cantor could have gotten it done, even though Cantor walked out on the process over taxes. They had laid out 2T in cuts and at some point, Cantor could have swallowed some new taxes that he could spin in his favor. But Boehner and Obama were destined to fail. They both meant well but they were off cutting their own deal without confirming at least some of the details with their leadership. It was asinine, especially 2 years from election time.

Edited September 20, 2012 by John Adams

[UConn James]

Bob Woodward: Fiscal 'Day of Reckoning' Is Coming

 

“Getting this country’s financial house in order should be one of the main topics of this year’s presidential election,” author Bob Woodward told The Fiscal Times. “The candidates should be asked about it. They should be pressed to be very specific about it. It is the one thing that’s going to truly matter for generations to come, for our kids, our grandkids.”

...

‘A Divided Man’

TFT : How does Obama compare in broad terms to other presidents you’ve covered?

BW: Well, he’s very, very smart. But there’s a “divided man” quality to him. He tells people, “I’m a blue dog. I want fiscal restraint and order.” At the same time, as he told me, “I don’t want to cut entitlements in any way that would hurt vulnerable populations.” So, there isn’t the quality of, “This is how we’re going to do it.” When I was in the Navy in the ‘60s an executive officer had a plaque in his office that said, “He who does not know to which port he is sailing has no favorable wind.” Sometimes it is not clear whether Obama is sailing to the fiscal restraint port – or to the “protect-the-entitlements-at-all-costs” port.

 

Romney may get flak for not being very specific on exactly what he would cut beyond 'means-testing' for SS, etc. but at least he's consistently seen reality and the coming entitlement tsunami and said that we must cut. What specifics has Obama offered, and what has he cut? Nothing. He's added substantially to the deficit/debt. Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth and kicks the can down the road.

Edited September 28, 2012 by UConn James

[IDBillzFan]

...but still, what is clear is Obama has ZERO ability to do biz. He just speechifies.

 

You know, this narrative about how Obama simply refuses to get into the deep grass with anyone has been growing over the past year. We always hear GOP leaders saying they haven't heard from Obama in xx number of days, months; that he never reaches out to anyone because he either doesn't know what to do or has no interest in it.

 

I chalked a lot of that up to partisan sniping, but this week at the UN absolutely tells the tale. This was THE week to grip-n-grin with our allies, and he had no interest at all. One of his spokespersons was asked about it, and their response was "Well, if he meets with one, he'll have to meet with 10," and I'm thinking "No, schiitt, Sherlock. Why WOULDN'T he meet with 10?"

 

The final embarrassment, and quite frankly everything you need to know about Obama socially and as a leader of the people, came today when the WH released a photo of Obama, at his desk, on the phone with a Netanyahu. The dudes were both just in NYC. But no. He has no time to meet. And he'll get 68% of the Jewish vote for some messed up reason.

[John Adams]

Bob Woodward: Fiscal 'Day of Reckoning' Is Coming

 

 

 

Romney may get flak for not being very specific on exactly what he would cut beyond 'means-testing' for SS, etc. but at least he's consistently seen reality and the coming entitlement tsunami and said that we must cut. What specifics has Obama offered, and what has he cut? Nothing. He's added substantially to the deficit/debt. Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth and kicks the can down the road.

 

In the almost-deal, everyone was kicking the can down the road. The entire premise of the deal was that a future Congress was going to be obligated (hahaha, like the sequestration that they will no doubt wriggle out from under) to deal with the cuts. Because, you know, the future Congress would have the self-discipline to make the cuts this Congress would not.

 

Reading the entire book, Obama "moved the goalposts" or as one of his advisors put it in his defense, "suggested moving the goal posts" towards the end of the negotiation. But most of the interviewed people said that Obama suggested to Boehner that 400B more in tax revenue would help him convince enough Dems to support the bill that it might pass. That sounds like a plausible explanation, since Boehner was getting a rash of crap from his base and likely was going to come up way short.

 

In response to Obama's move/suggestion to move, Boehner then went into hiding ON THE BIGGEST ISSUE FACING THE COUNTRY. He refused to return the President's call 3 times over the course of 2 days--complete and utter disrespect for the office, and I can't begin to respect him on that point. He's the Speaker of the House, 3rd in line to be president. You return the President's call when he calls. And he did it so he could form his public political statement and make the president look bad by releasing the statement at about the same time he finally called Obama, getting out ahead in the political point count.

 

That Boehner-Obama deal, even in its pre goal post form, probably would not have gotten done because the republicans were not willing to swallow the new revenue provisions. Boehner played politics at the end instead of keeping working on the deal, and though Obama asked for more, instead of telling Obama "no," Boehner burned the bridge.

 

Did Obama amateur hour his last minute request? Certainly. He's an amateur. But Boehner, a Congressional pro, dropped to Obama's level and refused to do what was right for the country too. I have no respect for either of them after reading the book. Once Obama wins, they will probably have to resume this discussion, but it will be harder now because people in both parties have now entrenched their respective uncompromising positions. This initial deal would have caught people off guard and Obama and Boenher could have controlled the "best result for the country" message.

[Duck_dodgers007]

Bob Woodward: Fiscal 'Day of Reckoning' Is Coming

 

 

 

Romney may get flak for not being very specific on exactly what he would cut beyond 'means-testing' for SS, etc. but at least he's consistently seen reality and the coming entitlement tsunami and said that we must cut. What specifics has Obama offered, and what has he cut? Nothing. He's added substantially to the deficit/debt. Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth and kicks the can down the road.

 

 

We are not going to cut entitlements, you can just forget that nonsense. The only thing Romney and Republicans want to do is make the situation worse with more tax cuts to "prove" there is problem so they can cut more taxes to again "prove" there is a problem.....

[Doc]

We are not going to cut entitlements, you can just forget that nonsense. The only thing Romney and Republicans want to do is make the situation worse with more tax cuts to "prove" there is problem so they can cut more taxes to again "prove" there is a problem.....

$716B from Medicare says you have no brain.

[UConn James]

In the almost-deal, everyone was kicking the can down the road. The entire premise of the deal was that a future Congress was going to be obligated (hahaha, like the sequestration that they will no doubt wriggle out from under) to deal with the cuts. Because, you know, the future Congress would have the self-discipline to make the cuts this Congress would not.

 

Reading the entire book, Obama "moved the goalposts" or as one of his advisors put it in his defense, "suggested moving the goal posts" towards the end of the negotiation. But most of the interviewed people said that Obama suggested to Boehner that 400B more in tax revenue would help him convince enough Dems to support the bill that it might pass. That sounds like a plausible explanation, since Boehner was getting a rash of crap from his base and likely was going to come up way short.

 

In response to Obama's move/suggestion to move, Boehner then went into hiding ON THE BIGGEST ISSUE FACING THE COUNTRY. He refused to return the President's call 3 times over the course of 2 days--complete and utter disrespect for the office, and I can't begin to respect him on that point. He's the Speaker of the House, 3rd in line to be president. You return the President's call when he calls. And he did it so he could form his public political statement and make the president look bad by releasing the statement at about the same time he finally called Obama, getting out ahead in the political point count.

 

That Boehner-Obama deal, even in its pre goal post form, probably would not have gotten done because the republicans were not willing to swallow the new revenue provisions. Boehner played politics at the end instead of keeping working on the deal, and though Obama asked for more, instead of telling Obama "no," Boehner burned the bridge.

 

Did Obama amateur hour his last minute request? Certainly. He's an amateur. But Boehner, a Congressional pro, dropped to Obama's level and refused to do what was right for the country too. I have no respect for either of them after reading the book. Once Obama wins, they will probably have to resume this discussion, but it will be harder now because people in both parties have now entrenched their respective uncompromising positions. This initial deal would have caught people off guard and Obama and Boenher could have controlled the "best result for the country" message.

 

In that same interview, Woodward lays a lot of the blame for the impasse on Obama for how he delivered the $400B 'goalpost move.'

 

He was demanding 150% more than was originally agreed and he did this tersely over the phone. You don't need Tera Patrick to tell you that a guy's gonna try to !@#$ you up the * he should at least put on some KY first. Respect goes both ways, I don't care if it's the president and the speaker or the garbage man and the postlady. What do you expect Boehner to do? Gleefully romp to the Oval and bend over? It was at that point that he decided that Obama wasn't serious / was playing politics rather than really negotiating and he went to plan B.

 

When I give someone a quote for $15 an hour and they call and want me to work for minimum wage, I don't call them back either.

 

[shrug]

[John Adams]

 

 

In that same interview, Woodward lays a lot of the blame for the impasse on Obama for how he delivered the $400B 'goalpost move.'

 

He was demanding 150% more than was originally agreed and he did this tersely over the phone. You don't need Tera Patrick to tell you that a guy's gonna try to !@#$ you up the * he should at least put on some KY first. Respect goes both ways, I don't care if it's the president and the speaker or the garbage man and the postlady. What do you expect Boehner to do? Gleefully romp to the Oval and bend over? It was at that point that he decided that Obama wasn't serious / was playing politics rather than really negotiating and he went to plan B.

 

When I give someone a quote for $15 an hour and they call and want me to work for minimum wage, I don't call them back either.

 

[shrug]

.

 

You're not the president. When the president calls the speaker about the most important issue facing the country, the speaker doesn't blow off the call 3 times to play politics. We actually need to solve the debt problem, and a solution was in reach, at least of being voted on.

 

Setting that aside, Obama was trying to get the bill passed with the golapost offer. Both Boehner and Obama were not sure they had anywhere near enough votes. Obama made the goalpost offer to help get more votes. Boehner, instead of saying "no, let's get this deal we already negotiated passed" walked away like a child and tanked the deal to score points.

 

Both men put politics before country and both deserve to be thrown from office. Won't happen but it should. You can't read the book and not end up disgusted with almost everyone.

 

As I said before, Biden is about the only politician who seemed capable of pulling off a deal, but Cantor walked on him like a little B word.

Edited September 29, 2012 by John Adams

[/dev/null]

Both men put politics before country and both deserve to be thrown from office. Won't happen but it should

 

Thanks in no small part to the not so great state of Ohio