dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I understand that you don't want to accept what truly happened, that's what happens to naive people such as yourself, I suggest you read the WAPO story that was posted on the debt debacle or for that matter the released excerpts for the Woodward book. Boehner brought him the deal, and Obama at the last minute changed the parameters, thus leading to the failure of the debt deal. If Clinton or Reagan were president, a deal would have been made, fact is Obama failed, and as a result we lost our AAA credit rating. Obama doesn't deserve re election. I suggest you acknowledge a few truths. 1) No matter what playing with the debt ceiling, no matter who does it, is pure retardation. It should happen automatically as it does for countries with a brain. 2) The GOP did it again, in a more serious manner than ever before. Took a hostage, demanded a ransom, played with fire and got us all burned. That is undeniable. Regardless of what you say, this is the plain story.
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Also, this "hostage" talk that you keep bringing up, is talking points that were provided by democratic lawmakers so that leftist sheeple could parrot it to anyone who would listen. I'm surprised that you were so easily fooled, I thought you were a little brighter than that. Read up on the story, then get back to me
dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 We'll not vote to extend the debt ceiling unless *condition, condition, condition* Hostage is a talking point? Maybe...a pretty damn accurate one. Get over your partisan hackery you can hate on Obama for all the other things you hate on Obama for...don't let it blind you and excuse the GOP when they deserve your hate. Seriously, take off your blidners
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Save your vapid talking points for your own ilk. That **** doesn't work with me. It's not accurate, it's a talking point meant to fool the sheeple, in this case you.
dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Ok well no need to continue posting. You like that the Repubs played hardball with fire and caused enough anxiety to downgrade our rating which is Obama's fault. I understand your view. End of discussion.
Doc Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 "Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." Barry said it himself. He's a failure as a leader. The Repubs were trying to reign-in his out-of-control spending, he didn't like it, and took his ball and went home. As a result, the US's credit rating took a hit. There is nothing more to say here.
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Nope, Obama backed out of the deal, according to WAPO and Woodward. I know it kills you that the spin Meisters from the democratic party fed you a different narrative that was more convenient for you, and that it made you feel a little better inside being able to parrot false talking points, but that simply wasn't the case. In any case, Obama blew it and we lost our AAA rating
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I'm not sure why eliminating any discussion over increasing our upper debt burden is a good thing. We've had our rating decreased. Good. It should be hard for us to borrow more money. We have an unsustainable spending problem.
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 "Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better." Barry said it himself. He's a failure as a leader. The Repubs were trying to reign-in his out-of-control spending, he didn't like it, and took his ball and went home. As a result, the US's credit rating took a hit. There is nothing more to say here. Obama is not a leader
Doc Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Obama is not a leader I agree, and unwittingly said as much back in 2006. He also said that if he didn't fix the US's economy in 3 years, he'd be a one-term president. Just another thing he's gone back on.
Taro T Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I agree, and unwittingly said as much back in 2006. He also said that if he didn't fix the US's economy in 3 years, he'd be a one-term president. Just another thing he's gone back on. He still might end up a 1 term president. He might not have gone back on that one.
Doc Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 He still might end up a 1 term president. He might not have gone back on that one. I meant he's going back on his assertion that he should be a one-term president.
dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I'm not sure why eliminating any discussion over increasing our upper debt burden is a good thing. We've had our rating decreased. Good. It should be hard for us to borrow more money. We have an unsustainable spending problem. The last situation aside let's talk about this point. 1) Congress approves spending. 2?) Congress... authorizes to pay separately? We're not going to pay? There is no logic for the debt ceiling to not automatically increase. We don't even decide to spend when it's time to pay. It's other legislative action that gives rise to the future need to pay. By the time the debt ceiling is an issue, it's too late to avoid paying w/ out "bad things" happening. It's not rational or effective in controlling spending. The spending debate is real, but the debt ceiling debate is not.
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 As I tried explaining to our friend from PA. Great leaders forge relationships with their political adversaries, they constantly work to cultivate those relationships, when those relationships become workable, things get done. By all accounts, Obama has failed miserably in this area, and according to many people, he simply doesn't have the desire to do what it takes to reach out a Ross the aisle. These aren't my words, these are the words of these reporters who had access to the WH to write these books and articles. Reagan and Clinton would of never of let our country lose our AAA rating. Obama failed
dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Great leaders forge relationships with their political adversaries, they constantly work to cultivate those relationships, Why don't you send that to your guys...or does it work one way? It's well documented the GOP's stance on how to recover from the shellacking of 2008...sit on the sidelines and B word betting the economy to crash and keeping their finger prints off it (aka doing nothing in a time of crisis) so when it was time for the next election they could point a finger and also state exactly what you are doing now: "Obama is not bipartisan." You see..when cooperation is a campaign theme the other party can single handedly break it. All that is need to examine is what is known ("known" as in fact) about the strategy meeting in late December/Early January before Obama was sworn in...all that is necessary to show it was working in action is the events leading the recovery act. Buy your parties own trash, go right ahead. You are literally the product of a political strategy.
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 The last situation aside let's talk about this point. 1) Congress approves spending. 2?) Congress... authorizes to pay separately? We're not going to pay? There is no logic for the debt ceiling to not automatically increase. We don't even decide to spend when it's time to pay. It's other legislative action that gives rise to the future need to pay. By the time the debt ceiling is an issue, it's too late to avoid paying w/ out "bad things" happening. It's not rational or effective in controlling spending. The spending debate is real, but the debt ceiling debate is not. We've come to a point in our history where congress is no longer making the spending decisions by passing a budget. The debt ceiling increase is the defacto budget.
WorldTraveller Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 A golden opportunity was brought to us because of the tea party. They were elected on a mandate, a mandate to change the status quo, a mandate to try to rein in the deficit. They leveraged their mandate to where the leader of the house and Obama could have a golden opportunity to have a real substantive debt reduction. As they were hammering out the deal, boehner took hard hits from the tea party by producing 400 billion in revenues, the tea party was livid, but boehner delivered. But when Obama saw that the gang of six had been talking about possibly even more revenues, at least in their discussions, and Obama was hearing that he could be receiving lash back from his leftist extremist wing, he backed out of the deal and moved the goal posts. Effectively killing the deal. And as a result, we lost our AAA rating. That's not a vapid taking point, or my translation of what happened, but of what the detailed WAPO piece and Woodward excerpts said.
dayman Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 We've come to a point in our history where congress is no longer making the spending decisions by passing a budget. The debt ceiling increase is the defacto budget. Except it ... isn't the budget. It's whether we will..pay...for...the budget...after we...ordered the meal...
Taro T Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 I meant he's going back on his assertion that he should be a one-term president. Nah, he's just too humble to take the decision of whether he should be a 1 termer out of the hands of the American people. That wouldn't be right to take such an awesome responsibility from the people of this great nation. He is far too humble of a servant to make such a grand decision on his own. Should the American people decide that he was wrong, once again (for pretty much only the 2nd time ever and for the same reason), failing to communicate well enough to them, his only real failue - the inability to tell a good story properly; then he is willing to humbly do their bidding as the selfless public servant he truly is.
TakeYouToTasker Posted September 8, 2012 Posted September 8, 2012 Except it ... isn't the budget. It's whether we will..pay...for...the budget...after we...ordered the meal... We don't have a budget. We have spending. And I maintain that our ability to borrow cheaply in the future is healthy for our spending policy over the long term.
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