WorldTraveller Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) uh oh, he said "plain and simple", so I guess that settles it. Edited August 28, 2012 by WorldTraveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 uh oh, he said "plain and simple", so I guess that settles it. Yeah, I guess so. Geez, I guess someone should have said that earlier. Would have saved me some key strokes. NewBills: Appeal to popularity, appeal to authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Seriously you guys have complete amnesia when it comes to this stimulus and you are shaped by your party rhetoric designed to make the administration unpopular and demonize "stimulus"...when the truth is both parties would have passed stimulus and it would have been crazy in '08 not to do so. Exactly what the package looks like? Debatable. How much? Debatable (at the time when everyone had bad numbers about how bad things were) within the range of upper 400s - 900...but it would have gone down regardless of what party was in power. Standing on the sideline allowed them to pretend otherwise. Edited August 28, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Seriously you guys have complete amnesia when it comes to this stimulus and you are shaped by your party rhetoric designed to make the administration unpopular and demonize "stimulus"...when the truth is both parties would have passed stimulus and it would have been crazy in '08 not to do so. I am unimpressed by your fiat declarations about policy and even less so with your mischaracterization of my political leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I can't help that you have the memory of an old fart with alzheimers. We've had this discussion before, if you aren't capable of retaining the information from previous discussions, then I can't and won't help you by repeating it once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 In a time where the economy was shrinking at an unheard of 8.9% rate loosing 700,000ish jobs a month in a national freefall ...Cantor rallied the troops after a defeat and before Obama was even sworn in came up with the plan...not the plan to react to this economic crisis...but to react to their political defeat. If the new president is for it, we are against it...keep your fingerprints off everything deny him any bipartisan achievement and bet on the economy the fail b/c it's a good bet since it's truley ****ed...."what's the purpose of the minority party" ... simply put "to become the majority party" and nothing more. That's Cantor for you. Trolling again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldTraveller Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I don't believe he's "trolling", he honestly believes the narrative that has been propogated from the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I don't believe he's "trolling", he honestly believes the narrative that has been propogated from the left. Yeah, seems so. It was an honest question, then I read the rest of the thread. Were it not for the coherent sentence structure it could be the rantings of BF4E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Trolling again? That was literally the political strategy rolling off the '08 defeat. It's well documented in a number of interviews. The "what's the purpose of the minority party...to become the majority party" is straight off a powerpoint presentation Pete Sessions gave at a conference in January before Obama was even swore in. They became an "entrepreneurial insurgency" (Boehner's words). They united, easily done most moderates from competitive districts were booted in '08 and it left hard line conservatives in safe seats who formed the new strategy to restart of the party...and that's what it was. I don't know why you guys act like this offensive to hear for some reason. You should be proud, it worked. I think it's shity but I'm not in favor of this...you guys hate Obama and the GOP was effective as 2010 showed with this hardline attack strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 That was literally the political strategy rolling off the '08 defeat. It's well documented in a number of interviews. The "what's the purpose of the minority party...to become the majority party" is straight off a powerpoint presentation Pete Sessions gave at a conference in January before Obama was even swore in. They became an "entrepreneurial insurgency" (Boehner's words). They united, easily done most moderates from competitive districts were booted in '08 and it left hard line conservatives in safe seats who formed the new strategy to restart of the party...and that's what it was. I don't know why you guys act like this offensive to hear for some reason. You should be proud, it worked. I think it's shity but I'm not in favor of this...you guys hate Obama and the GOP was effective as 2010 showed with this hardline attack strategy. It's not that you are lying, it's just that you're giving a Michael Moore version of the truth. Obviously any party is vying to get back in power. Pointing that out is like exposing the well documented fact that water is wet. These "moderate" douche bag Republicans were the same ones who acted like Democrats through the Bush years making it virtually impossible to defend their fiscal policies & cost them dearly in 06 and 08. Where you really go off the tracks is assuming that the opposition to Obama had nothing to do with the content of his policies, as though any of these guys thought their opposition was somehow hindering recovery. This "obstructionist congress" is a convenient way for that Rock of a man, Obama, to shirk any responsibility for his failed policies. I would absolutely LOVE for someone to identify what specific legislation would have been the magic bullet if only they'd laid down & let Obama run the country as a de facto dictator. And claiming this bogus "stimulus" bill would have been universally accepted by people with economic recovery in mind is beyond absurd. Most rank-and-file fiscal conservatives knew the Bush "stimulus" was bull **** too - a temporary retroactive "tax cut" is more of a Keynesian measure than a Reaganesque supply-side strategy - & Obama's took the bull **** to a whole new level. At BEST Obama's is a pump priming measure that, as pump priming always does, failed. So while we'll all have our partisan glasses on to some extent, let's at least try to be honest, not only with each other, but also with ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Your refusal to believe just how partisan it all was is where you fall short. Obviously there are policy fights and were at the time within the parties...disputes about exactly what to do etc...nobody anywhere said do nothing not even Cantor and crew they had 2 separate proposals themselves that got large GOP support (which as I said early were very different from each other except neither was a democrat proposal). The chamber of commerce themselves supported the damn thing as did a lot of GOP governors, mayors, and local officials. The bottom line though is that the Cantor crew on the hill would control the narrative..."this is not bipartisan" (and nothing will be)...they would go on and on and say about how the Dems forced it down their throat when the strategy was laid out in January (before Obama was President but while the early stimulus was being kicked around) that they simply weren't going to play. If it worked they would keep their seats b/c the economy was good, if the economy stayed lackluster it was their ticket back to power. Literally no gain politically in cooperating on any package to help the situation at all...and so they didn't...and then when the Dems passed it anyway b/c the economy was falling of the cliff they acted like they were ignored when their plan was literally to just sit it out and B word about it in the media. Now as scripted they have people like you thinking everything would have been fine, the Democrats are the party of monopoly money (funny how that works out), and it's time to give the keys back to the adults. Edited August 28, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm still waiting to hear which proposals would have helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) I'm still waiting to hear which proposals would have helped. Which proposals would have helped that didn't go in the stimulus? You of all people are well aware there weren't too many democratic goodies that didn't make cut...and btw there were plenty of tax cuts and bags of money that most of the GOP governors took and secretly thanked God for. The point is we all know when either party is being political which is most of the time. That wasn't one of them. You don't pass 700+ billion dollar spending bill to gain popularity...even the Democrats don't do that...the Republicans know that of course and played their cards right for political gain and you seem to just think they were there operating according to the best interest of America as they hung out w/ reporters bitching and moaning and convincing America that all of the sudden in January of '09 after 30 years of deficit spending in the middle of economic collapse... stimulus was now a terrible idea to deal with large economic downturns. The prediction was it would save about 3% unemployment increase and studies say it did but it was spending, Obama is a terrible liberal, and stimulus doesn't work. And all that is political...but it's worked b/c here you are believing it to the day you die. Edited August 29, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm not going to sit here & speculate what portion of what might or might not have been politically motivated. You still haven't offered any examples of blocked legislation that would have helped. We've already discussed the Obama "stimulus" so we don't need to rehash that, but I'd say the characterization of 30 years of deficit spending was somehow an endorsement of deficit spending as a catalyst to growth is false. But back to the issue (and f-u for making me defend Cantor), what legislation that would have helped has been blocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'm not going to sit here & speculate what portion of what might or might not have been politically motivated. You still haven't offered any examples of blocked legislation that would have helped. We've already discussed the Obama "stimulus" so we don't need to rehash that, but I'd say the characterization of 30 years of deficit spending was somehow an endorsement of deficit spending as a catalyst to growth is false. But back to the issue (and f-u for making me defend Cantor), what legislation that would have helped has been blocked? You keep asking that there wasn't any it passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 You keep asking that there wasn't any it passed. So then, are you saying the Obama excuse that he couldn't save the economy because of Republican obstructionists in Congress is bull ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) So then, are you saying the Obama excuse that he couldn't save the economy because of Republican obstructionists in Congress is bull ****? Obama helped the economy w/ teh stimulus. Yes I know you believe we should have done nothing in '09. I think you are crazy but we operate of a different set of facts (more common these days than either of us should be comfortable with) so we'll leave it at that. What the GOP on the Hill did was, as much as you guys say Obama blames others, is refuse to play the game of doing anything in a time of crisis to keep their hands clean so they can now turn around and...balme...point at a ridiculous counter at their convention and pretend that if only we had done nothing and cut taxes we would be better off...when we did something that helped AND cut taxes more than ever at the same time. WE've been cutting taxes forever...clearly that's the answer. The entire position is political...and it's converting a new line of people to believe the smoke. I don't care if people hate Obama and vote Romney...but going trend is the most destructive political trend we've had in a while. It led to the recent incarnation of a do nothing congress oddly enough in 2012...we did nothing for 2 years and the economy still faltered so obviously doing nothing is a great idea..if only we had that Congress after 08....it led to things like the debt ceiling debacle...it led to pulling the GOP more right which I guess is a success to some...it led to congressional control of the house which people like I suppose...the point I'm making here is your conservative political stunts are reality to too many people...and it's taking us in a crazy direction. And btw my actual point (even though you can't help but get into the stimulus to talk about it) is just that Cantor is a political hack. So that's really what I started talking about and was ultimately talking about this discussion...though it got messy. Edited August 29, 2012 by TheNewBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Obama helped the economy w/ teh stimulus. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Obama helped the economy w/ teh stimulus. The U.S. economy is (and always has been) cyclical There was always going to be a recovery, the Obama administration's policies have slowed our recovery. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Prove it. It's the opinion of a lot of people...macro economic advisers, moddy's economy.com, IHS global insight, JP morgan chase and goldman sachs, the CBO itself...you prove it didn't. In any event though we can just pick up stimulus after lunch tomorrow let's get in the convention topic and talk about today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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