CodeMonkey Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 obviously you're trying to be funny w/ you comment, but seriously go re-watch the games again and notice how Fitz is trying a lot more passes 10 yards + past the LOS than usual. Hence the low comp %. Ahhh. I guess if your definition of "deeper" starts at 10 yards then I'll take your word for it.
Glory Bound Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Fitz to Graham deep? You think that's ever gonna be "a thing"? Don't you guys get that FITZ DOESNT CHANGE! -He still has the same effed up throwing motion that leads to INT's and batted balls. He can't let it go. -Just like that stupid beard! Lee came in here and GAVE UP trying to show Fitz the correct way to throw a football. Instead he opted to focus on footwork. -Which IMO wasn't the problem. Now we've added poor Tavaris Jackson to this circus of incompetence, and failure. Fitz managed to save his buddy Thigpen from the axe. -Temporarily. But he won't be able to save himself or his enabling HC. What a nightmare. The offseason spending spree was all for nothing. Thank you for such a positive uplifting post! C'mon, be honest...did you even crack a little smile last year when we were 5 & 2 & ranked #2 in the NFL ?
KOKBILLS Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Combo of a lot of things hurt our deep passing game. 1- Fred Jackson went down, we run a lot of our offense around the guy. (Kept a lot more teams honest) 2- E.Wood and D.Bell injuries and the declining play of the offensive line. (Fitz couldn't get the protection he once had) 3- D.Jones and receiver injuries (D.Jones was making big plays with Fitz, he got hurt and other receivers got hurt too, what speed we had got hurt). 4- Teams adjusting to our offense (Defenses played things differently thanks to the above factors) 5- Fitz's injury (That likely didn't help things) It was a lot of things that led the offense to decline in the second half of last season. But a lot of it is health related, a healthy O-line and receiving core would go a long way for Fitz. But also its up to Chan and Fitz to adjust the offense. It's interesting...Not that I disagree with any of your individual points...But you left off the most obvious...Fitz has been an average, to slightly below average QB with an average, to below average arm since he's been in the NFL...He has improved under Gailey no question...But overall the improvement has been streaky at best...Fitz brings problems with him that Teams with elite QB's simply do not have to deal with... The #1 problem the Bills have on Offense is Fitz...Not that they can't win when Fitz is at his best...They can...But when he plays to his average it's rarely good enough...And that just is what it is...
BillyBaroo Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Yeah, two miscues in a preseason game totally negate his career to date. He said he was "an outstanding route runner". I don't think that has ever been true of Stevie - and he should know the playbook by now. I certainly don't want to negate his "lackluster" career either just criticize it.
Orton's Arm Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Thank you for such a positive uplifting post! C'mon, be honest...did you even crack a little smile last year when we were 5 & 2 & ranked #2 in the NFL ? I can't speak for #34 fan. But back when the Bills were around 5-2, I started a thread entitled "The Bills' method of winning is unsustainable." Which it was. As a Bills fan, I'm desperate for a Super Bowl win. But I have no interest in being fed false hope, year after year. If I'm going to give this team my hope and my optimism, it needs to be for something real. Not some flashy Terrell Owens signing, or some idiotic Donte Whitner draft pick defended by those who assume that the Bills' front office knows best. What have they seen over the last 10 - 15 years to make them reach that conclusion? I like many of the things Nix has done as a GM. But he still hasn't found a quarterback. If he tells us he has, then he's wrong.
gregkash Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 If Freddie and CJ are running the ball effectively Fitz is more than enough to get her done. If we're relying on Fitz to throw 300+ every week, we're in trouble. It's really as simple as that.
NoSaint Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Ahhh. I guess if your definition of "deeper" starts at 10 yards then I'll take your word for it. We had games last year with 1 completion over 10 yards downfield (Philly?). Like I said- less horizontal and more vertical spacing will be the test. Even in the 10-20 range will be very important
K-9 Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 I can't speak for #34 fan. But back when the Bills were around 5-2, I started a thread entitled "The Bills' method of winning is unsustainable." Which it was. As a Bills fan, I'm desperate for a Super Bowl win. But I have no interest in being fed false hope, year after year. If I'm going to give this team my hope and my optimism, it needs to be for something real. Not some flashy Terrell Owens signing, or some idiotic Donte Whitner draft pick defended by those who assume that the Bills' front office knows best. What have they seen over the last 10 - 15 years to make them reach that conclusion? I like many of the things Nix has done as a GM. But he still hasn't found a quarterback. If he tells us he has, then he's wrong. Buddy has never said he's found his QB. He's always maintained that if there's a "10-15 year guy" available when they pick, they'll take him. Obviously that hasn't happened yet. If you don't want to give them your hope for something not tangible, you need to rethink your position on investing any more emotional energy into the team until they find Fitz's replacement. Just save yourself the grief. GO BILLS!!!
OldTimer1960 Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Exactly. People forget we have more than 2 receivers capable of running routes/making catches. Also, to whomever posted about 3rd and 6-8 and guys catching passes short of the 1st down marker; you're taught in High School to stretch your routes to the marker on 3rd down pass plays, you'd think these guys could do the same. Ah but the defenses also know that. Is it a better strategy to run past the 1st down marker (straight into the teeth of the defense) and *hope* to catch the pass or is it better to stop short of the defense, make the catch and try to elude the defense for the first down? Neither is a winning strategy - the "run past the marker" argument is WAY too simplistic to hold much weight. The best strategy is to have 3rd and short or make first downs within the first two downs (of course, that ain't easy, either)
Orton's Arm Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Buddy has never said he's found his QB. He's always maintained that if there's a "10-15 year guy" available when they pick, they'll take him. Obviously that hasn't happened yet. If you don't want to give them your hope for something not tangible, you need to rethink your position on investing any more emotional energy into the team until they find Fitz's replacement. Just save yourself the grief. GO BILLS!!! I do remember Buddy saying that he'd draft a first round QB if the right one was there. On the other hand, Fitz's lucrative contract extension seems to indicate the front office has a greater level of faith in him than I have. Right now, I get the sense that Buddy would draft a QB if a good one was available when the Bills picked. That's good, but may not be good enough. I'd like to see Buddy trade up in the first round, if that's what it takes to get a franchise QB. I'm not sure he's quite prepared to do that just yet, but I'd like him to be. > If you don't want to give them your hope for something not tangible, you need to rethink your position on investing > any more emotional energy into the team until they find Fitz's replacement. I feel, strongly, that the Bills are highly unlikely to win a Super Bowl until they find their franchise QB. But in the meantime, there are still things about which we can get legitimately excited. I was an early fan of Fred Jackson and of Stevie Johnson. This year I'm excited about players like Gilmore and Glenn. A refusal to accept false hope is not the same thing as a refusal to see positive things which really do exist. I've found that seeing things as they actually are makes it easier to cope with being a Bills fan.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 New England had 31st ranked defense and Green Bay was last. Is defense that important if you have a QB? Just sayin. And how'd that work out for them post-season last year? GB went home early and NE lost the SB Just sayin
San-O Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 It's interesting...Not that I disagree with any of your individual points...But you left off the most obvious...Fitz has been an average, to slightly below average QB with an average, to below average arm since he's been in the NFL...He has improved under Gailey no question...But overall the improvement has been streaky at best...Fitz brings problems with him that Teams with elite QB's simply do not have to deal with... The #1 problem the Bills have on Offense is Fitz...Not that they can't win when Fitz is at his best...They can...But when he plays to his average it's rarely good enough...And that just is what it is... When the Bills throw the ball more than 20 x / game, the Bills lose. A lot of that is on Fitz.
CardinalScotts Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 yes pathetic D and we focus on the offense which was rated 14th overall and broke 20 points 11 times....how many games did we hold the opponent to 30 or below 7. But lets talk about the offense and Fitz and this and that. The D ? oh they were terrific
WhickedWilliams Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Fitz will answer every question we as fans have about him this season. perfectly put
Orton's Arm Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 yes pathetic D and we focus on the offense which was rated 14th overall and broke 20 points 11 times....how many games did we hold the opponent to 30 or below 7. But lets talk about the offense and Fitz and this and that. The D ? oh they were terrific The defense got addressed in a big way in the offseason. The Bills seem to have drafted two starting-quality CBs, signed two starting-quality DEs, and drafted additional talent at linebacker. Plus they upgraded their defensive coordinator. Let's at least wait and see how all those new additions do before assuming defense is still the problem. Let's say that there are a few things about the interior of your house which bug you. So you fix them. Making a few things better only serves to call attention to other flaws. Flaws which you might not have paid much attention to previously. On paper, the Bills have fixed most of their problems on defense, at LT, and at speed WR. Getting that other stuff taken care of only makes their problems at QB more obvious.
Wagon Circler Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Sometimes Fitz forgets this too. He targeted Stevie NINE times against the Steelers. Why? Last years offensive numbers were skewed by the first seven games. What was our ranking over the last nine? I wanted to blame injuries too but I don't think that's the case anymore.
thewildrabbit Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) The Bills' problems on offense are serious and deap-seated, and they start at the quarterback position. Unless or until that position is upgraded, the Bills are very unlikely to be able to keep up with the best offenses in the NFL. In Nix's first draft, there was no available QB worthy of being picked 9th overall. In his second draft, there was no available QB worthy of being picked 3rd overall. Etc. So the Bills haven't had many opportunities to upgrade the QB position. The time has come to fix that. If (for example) the Bills have the 10th overall pick in the upcoming draft, and if the best QB of the draft is expected to go 7th overall, then the Bills need to trade up to 6th overall or higher! If that means giving up a lot of players and/or draft picks, then you give them up. The Bills need a franchise QB; and they should be prepared to pay a high price to get one. In the long run, they'll be very happy they did. The Bills problems on offense are serious and deep seated, but they don't start at the QB position! They start with a head coach determined to have QB's molded to fit his style of high powered offensive scheme. Instead of building a scheme most any QB would be compatible in, a dominate run first offense like the one Martyball runs. So far only Fitz with his super gray cells have managed to assimilate Gaileys offense, 1 out of 6 so far. Instead of building an offense that supports and protects the QB, Gailey insists on mostly running a one back spread offense with 4-5 WR sets, with one top 20 WR in Stevie Johnson ranked #19, Donald Jones ranked #61 and the 3rd best WR ranked #167- Naaman Roosevelt #4 ranked 171- Derek Hagan, #5 ranked 177 Brad Smith. Which shows that a lot of those 4-5 WR sets had only one decent WR running routes and catching passes all last year. Shoot, I highly doubt Brady or Brees would have done as well as Fitz has done these last two years, with as little as he has had around him. If Gailey wants to run a high powered offense like the great teams have he needs at least one other top WR. Most of the top teams have 2 or more outstanding WR's. Stating that, the WR position should have been the highest priority in the draft. But Buddy Nix drafts on how the draft falls to him. So the Bills drafted yet another CB. While I agree that Fitz is not an elite QB, what he is tho... is a gunslinger, try and make a play, tough as nails Journeyman QB who can get the job done if he isn't running for his life or getting hit every play. The sad thing is Fitz will get all the blame when this offense fails to win games. I'm sure the offense / QB will put up some good numbers in many losing contests this year, even with a better defense. From what I've seen Chan Gailey knows how to get a QB to light it up. He did it in KC back in 08 with Thigpen running his pistol offense, 14 games, 2600 yards 18 TD's / 12 INT's and they went 2-14. I would hate to think what record the Bills would have had in 2010- 2011 if not for Fitz being able to get the ball out to the open receiver in under 3 seconds. Still awaiting the proverbial baby...to see the light of day. PS. It is rather perplexing as to why the Bills haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Jim Kelly (besides JP) considering they have been drafting one of the first 15 players for the last decade. Edited August 29, 2012 by Fear the Beard
ganesh Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 When the Bills throw the ball more than 20 x / game, the Bills lose. A lot of that is on Fitz. And that is a direct reflection on Fitz's biggest weakness....Consistency. !!
ganesh Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 PS. It is rather perplexing as to why the Bills haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Jim Kelly (besides JP) considering they have been drafting one of the first 15 players for the last decade. Year: QBs picked before Bills Pick : QBs picked after Bills pick (in 1st Round) 2012: Luck, Griffin Tannehill | Weeden 2011: Newton | Locker, Gabbert, Ponder 2010: Bradford, | Tebow 2009: Stafford, Sanchez | Freeman 2008: Ryan | Flacco 2007: Russell | Brady Quinn 2006: Young | Leinart, Cutler 2005: Smith | Rodgers, Campbell 2004: Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, | Losman I will stop here... The bottom line is the QBs that have been picked after the Bills pick in the 1st round have all been crap except for Flacco, Rodgers and Cutler...We definitely should have picked up Cutler when we had the chance, but that is the year Marv and Dick blew it up.. Of course, the situation was also that the Bills still hadn't given Losman a decent chance to start. The same with Rodgers. Rest of those years, the QBs that are franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, Ryan, Stafford and Newton were all long gone. Remember these players were also drafted in an era where besides doling out many draft picks, the team also had to sign them to 30-50M guaranteed contracts....The Bills were in no position to do that. The closest miss was not getting Rothelisberger....We were hoodwinked by the Steelers by fate...
thebandit27 Posted August 29, 2012 Posted August 29, 2012 Year: QBs picked before Bills Pick : QBs picked after Bills pick (in 1st Round) 2012: Luck, Griffin Tannehill | Weeden 2011: Newton | Locker, Gabbert, Ponder 2010: Bradford, | Tebow 2009: Stafford, Sanchez | Freeman 2008: Ryan | Flacco 2007: Russell | Brady Quinn 2006: Young | Leinart, Cutler 2005: Smith | Rodgers, Campbell 2004: Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, | Losman I will stop here... The bottom line is the QBs that have been picked after the Bills pick in the 1st round have all been crap except for Flacco, Rodgers and Cutler...We definitely should have picked up Cutler when we had the chance, but that is the year Marv and Dick blew it up.. Of course, the situation was also that the Bills still hadn't given Losman a decent chance to start. The same with Rodgers. Rest of those years, the QBs that are franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, Ryan, Stafford and Newton were all long gone. Remember these players were also drafted in an era where besides doling out many draft picks, the team also had to sign them to 30-50M guaranteed contracts....The Bills were in no position to do that. The closest miss was not getting Rothelisberger....We were hoodwinked by the Steelers by fate... The Bills did not have a 1st round pick in 2005, so they did not pass on Rodgers.
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