DanInUticaTampa Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I think the biggest thing that killed the offense was that we abandoned the run game, and that forced Fitz to throw the ball a lot more than he should. If he were tom Brady or even a Joe flacco, I would say no problem. I like Fitz, but no way can he win for us without running the ball a lot Other than that, there were probably other factors like defenses catching on Edited August 28, 2012 by DanInUticaTampa
gumby Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 There's nothing to be done at this point. You're not going to find a guy out there right now that's going to make any real difference. The Bills are going to roll into the 2012 season with a back-up QB who just happens to be their starter because they don't have anyone better. There isn't anyone who's going to come in and supplant Fitzpatrick at this time. So I'm going to do what I do every year. Cheer wildly for the team. Be very happy when they win and not be upset when they don't.
BuffBill Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 If you want to know the real reason behind the struggles of the Bills then this sums it up perfectly. I found this on Rotoworld and it breaks down exactly what the issue is and why the Bills looked terrible the 2nd half of last season and early this pre-season. It is not because of injury, it is not the WR's (heck, we could have the best set of WR's in the league for all we know), not Gailey, etc, etc. It is our LIMITATION at QB. Notice I did not say "Bad" QB....it is that he is rather limited. As I have stated many times before, Fitz is the best backup QB in the league. If you don't agree with me or the other minority of vans on here that try to "tell it like it is" then maybe this will help convince.... Ryan Fitzpatrick has completed just 21-of-43 passes (48.8 percent) for 208 yards (4.8 YPA), one touchdown, and no interceptions through three preseason games. He's also taken six sacks, although five came in the opener against the Redskins. Fitzpatrick was much better in preseason last year, only to start hot and fade as the real games progressed. NFL Net's Mike Lombardi has suggested defenses have caught onto the Bills' offensive scheme, realizing they can't throw vertically and struggle to hold protection for long stretches. Fitzpatrick's arm-strength limitations mean the former probably isn't going to change. I agree Fitz is a problem, keeping this team from being elite, but he is far from the only weakness. To say the WR corps isn't a problem is a joke. Our best receiver, Stevie Johnson, drops more balls then any other receiver in the NFL. The rest of our receiving corps is undrafted with the exception of Graham who is a rookie and hasn't done anything yet. The O-Line is starting a rookie at the most important spot on the line protecting Fitz's blindside. This team is better probably then it has been in awhile, a long while on defense, but the offense as a whole is still easily in the bottom portion of the league, not just at the QB position.
Buftex Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) This. The Bills have talented players. Just because we have one good WR (Stevie) doesn't mean that the passing game is going to suffer. Jackson, Spiller, and now Graham can add things to the passing game. Spiller has lined up wide before and can essentially be a 3rd WR. Yeah, he's not a typical WR, but he can perform the duties well enough. The offense (IMO) should really be based around Freddie. Let the opposing defenses focus on him and have Spiller, Chandler, Jones, Stevie, and Graham work on winning their battles. Once that happens, the offense will open up more. Let's hope Chan remembers he has a first class RB in Fred, and a possible stud in CJ...he seems to lose sight of that sometimes... I think Chan's stubborn addiction to the passing game cost the Bills, realistically, solid chances to win two to four more games last year. I generally like his play calling, but, man, there were just times last year when the situation screamed "run", but we got pass instead...and, while I can't remember which games specifically, there were a few games where it seems the Bills were running the ball well in the first half, only to abandon the run in the second half. Chan would say "we just weren't moving the ball like I thought we needed to, on the ground"....it was head-scratching... Edited August 28, 2012 by Buftex
Punch Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I know you want to, but you can't compare the team that won the SB to a 6-10 team. Like I pointed out, the Giants have a better receiver corps! They also have a better QB, better O line (with pro bowlers on it) better scheme, better play caller, better HC, better defense, better everything. and clearly scoring doesn't equate to wins does it? If Fitz doesn't underthrow Stevie in that Giants' game then the Giants finish the season at 8-8 and the Bills are 7-9--- I only point this out to say that the margin for error between missing the playoffs and winning the Super Bowl is as razor thin as it had ever been. I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded--- if the Bills offense is capable of scoring then that's good in any regard, right? Scoring doesn't equate to wins alone obviously, which speaks all the more to the defense being the problem in 2011. They were able to score last year even after the injuries began piling up, but unfortunately they couldn't keep the other teams from rolling up points and yards. Edited August 28, 2012 by Punch
BuffaloBaumer Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Ryan Fitzpatrick is 21 of 42 (50.8%) for 208 yards Jay Cutler is 16 of 34 (47.1 %) for 218 yards Cam Newton is 16 of 31 (51.6%) for 196 yards Aaron Rodgers is 20 of 41 (48.8%) for 229 yards Tony Romo is 21 of 32 (65.6%) for 303 yards Mark Sanchez is 24 of 35 for (68.6%) for 203 yards Ryan Tannehill is 36 of 71(50.7%) for 379 yards Jake Locker is 22 of 44 (50%) for 235 yards Chase Daniel (NO) is 46 of 64 (71.9%) for 538 yards <-- I think I found our QB of the future. Now how many 1st round picks do we give for him? No price is too high for a franchise QB! VERY interesting......
thebandit27 Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I agree Fitz is a problem, keeping this team from being elite, but he is far from the only weakness. To say the WR corps isn't a problem is a joke. Our best receiver, Stevie Johnson, drops more balls then any other receiver in the NFL. The rest of our receiving corps is undrafted with the exception of Graham who is a rookie and hasn't done anything yet. The O-Line is starting a rookie at the most important spot on the line protecting Fitz's blindside. This team is better probably then it has been in awhile, a long while on defense, but the offense as a whole is still easily in the bottom portion of the league, not just at the QB position. Not even close...not even in the top 20 in drop rate: http://www.profootba...pping-the-ball/ I agree Fitz is a problem, keeping this team from being elite, but he is far from the only weakness. To say the WR corps isn't a problem is a joke. Our best receiver, Stevie Johnson, drops more balls then any other receiver in the NFL. The rest of our receiving corps is undrafted with the exception of Graham who is a rookie and hasn't done anything yet. The O-Line is starting a rookie at the most important spot on the line protecting Fitz's blindside. This team is better probably then it has been in awhile, a long while on defense, but the offense as a whole is still easily in the bottom portion of the league, not just at the QB position. And Brad Smith, who was a 4th round pick. And Derek Hagan, who was a third-round pick. I agree Fitz is a problem, keeping this team from being elite, but he is far from the only weakness. To say the WR corps isn't a problem is a joke. Our best receiver, Stevie Johnson, drops more balls then any other receiver in the NFL. The rest of our receiving corps is undrafted with the exception of Graham who is a rookie and hasn't done anything yet. The O-Line is starting a rookie at the most important spot on the line protecting Fitz's blindside. This team is better probably then it has been in awhile, a long while on defense, but the offense as a whole is still easily in the bottom portion of the league, not just at the QB position. The unit, to a man, has added more talent in several areas (WR, OT), and finished 14th in points scored last year while sustaining injuries to some of their best players (F. Jackson, Wood). I'm not trying to pick on you, but almost everything in your post is incorrect. Edited August 28, 2012 by thebandit27
hondo in seattle Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Chan Gailey thinks he is slick running all those 5 WR sets, and yet he is fooling only himself because defenses know to key on Johnson. You would think that Gailey would open his eyes and see the deficiencies in his current WR corps and bring in Plaxico Burris You really think you know more about offensive football than Chan Gailey? Really? You really think you have insights into the Bills offense that Chan hasn't seen for himself?
FleaMoulds80 Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 The Bills create a very difficult problem for opposing defensive coverage schemes with so many talented receivers on the roster....oh wait, I meant the Packers, the Patriots, the Giants, the Saints et al. The Bills pose no real threat in their offensive passing scheme because they only have one top receiver in Stevie Johnson. Chan Gailey thinks he is slick running all those 5 WR sets, and yet he is fooling only himself because defenses know to key on Johnson. To the OP, Lombardi made that same note about the Bills offense early last season. Stating that opposing teams would simply jam the receivers on the line and disrupt the quick timing passes, and that leaves Fitz very vulnerable to the rush Amen to that You would think that Gailey would open his eyes and see the deficiencies in his current WR corps and bring in Plaxico Burris First who is Burris? Secondly no...
Jauronimo Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 What we witnessed last year was an injury riddled and suspect line that couldn't pass protect for long; a depleted WR corps that couldn't get off the line, beat press coverage, or haul in the deep pass (D. Jones); and a QB with a questionable ability to connect on the deep ball and make defenses pay in the rare event that a Fitz has enough time for a deep route to develop. Combine that with a defense that made sure the Bills were always playing catch up and forced into obvious passing situations and you have a perfect storm of suck. It doesn't take a defensive genius to game plan against that. Our WRs are slightly improved. I believe our line is better and deeper now. Our defense is greatly improved. I still expect the Jets to come at us the same way they have for the last few years and jam WRs at the line, stack the box, go blitz happy and dare us to beat them over the top. If Fitz can make them pay that will buy our quick pass offense a lot more time and space. If not, it could be a long season on the offensive side of the ball.
jonramz Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 If anyone has noticed... there has been a concerted effort to throw deeper routes this preseason
hondo in seattle Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Lombardi on the NFL Network before the Steelers game indicated that NFL coaches caught on to the fact Fitz and the Bills preferred quick passes, often slants, in their pass game and that they have adjusted. I've notice recently how man quick slants to SJ have been batted down. Add to this the fact Stevie is a fantastic route runner but isn't a burner and has fair to good hands and the question becomes is the Bills offence extremely limited. Is the season going to hang on the ability of Fitz to find raw rookie Graham deep? I think Chan is sophisticated enough to create a passing game that isn't entirely dependent on the quick slant. People who say that defenses finally figured out the Bills at midseason last year are really simplifiying things. Lombardi acts like the Defensive Coordinators we faced in the first half of the year were idiots. They were not. They knew the Bills tendencies. Furthermore, Lombardi makes it seem like the Bills failure in the second half of the year were driven entirely by the decision-making of opposing Defensive Coordinators and not our own issues. We had a QB with cracked ribs and signifcant injuries to our offensive line and WR corps. There isn't one reason for the Bills demise, there are many. Gailey has had a nice career as an Offensive Coordinator. I think he can draw up more plays than the quick slant. I do think, however, that concerns about our lack of talent in the passing game are somewhat valid. And this limits what Gailey can do.
BuffOrange Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) i remember many times where the play called on 3rd and 6-8 consisted of a quick out to a receiver who was standing still within a yard of the LOS. I dont care if Fitzy, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, or Peyton manning is throwing the ball, this play has little chance of working more than once in a while. Fitz may not be a top 5 qb, but his chances of success are greatly diminished with play calls like this because it does nothing but bring the CBs in closer, faster. This is scary. This sounds exactly like the mid to late 2000s Dick Jauron offenses. And I've seen it too. Is it the play calling/offense, or the QB, or something else? It's either the QB, or Brady & Manning have been exceptionally lucky to never have one of these awful playcallers in their combined 23 years in the league. I think you probably should care who the QB is. Edited August 28, 2012 by BuffOrange
BillyBaroo Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Add to this the fact Stevie is a fantastic route runner but isn't a burner Agree with the 2nd part but as evidenced at least twice in Steeler game he is far from a fantastic route runner.
muffmonster Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 Agree with the 2nd part but as evidenced at least twice in Steeler game he is far from a fantastic route runner. Yeah, two miscues in a preseason game totally negate his career to date.
Lurker Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 I think the biggest thing that killed the offense was that we abandoned the run game, and that forced Fitz to throw the ball a lot more than he should. Despite the high YPC the RBs had last year, the O-line was not that great in the run game. A high percentage of FJ's yards came from his superior vision and cutting back against the grain, while CJ's relied on his speed (although he got much better using his blockers as the year went on). This is a pass-to-set-up-the-run offense, plain and simple. The arguments for run-first scheme fly only if the five starters can reliably knock defenders off the ball, which has yet to be proven IMO...
hondo in seattle Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 What we witnessed last year was an injury riddled and suspect line that couldn't pass protect for long; a depleted WR corps that couldn't get off the line, beat press coverage, or haul in the deep pass (D. Jones); and a QB with a questionable ability to connect on the deep ball and make defenses pay in the rare event that a Fitz has enough time for a deep route to develop. Combine that with a defense that made sure the Bills were always playing catch up and forced into obvious passing situations and you have a perfect storm of suck. It doesn't take a defensive genius to game plan against that. Our WRs are slightly improved. I believe our line is better and deeper now. Our defense is greatly improved. I still expect the Jets to come at us the same way they have for the last few years and jam WRs at the line, stack the box, go blitz happy and dare us to beat them over the top. If Fitz can make them pay that will buy our quick pass offense a lot more time and space. If not, it could be a long season on the offensive side of the ball. Yep.
Orton's Arm Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 This is my biggest concern with this team and I think it also has to do with why a lot of us were hoping for a WR early in the draft. Personally, I thought the difference between Michael Floyd and our second WR (call it Donald Jones) was a lot greater than the difference between Gilmore and Drayton Florence. However, I'm afraid that philosophical rigidity and an unwavering commitment to the horizontal passing game played a part in the Bills waiting on WR at the draft. Sure, they tried to bring in Meacham, but when that didn't work out, they didn't do much else to get better at WR. My fear is that the coaching staff does not see the need for a big bodied, physical, vertical passing threat in this offense. I'm really worried that Chan thinks that he can scheme around the talent deficiencies at WR and find quicker route runners to fit his scheme. But, I think that scheme only works to an extent. In the NFL there's too much talent for a single scheme to dominate for a long period of time as all teams will adjust. You have to have good players that can create mismatches. Right now, I see a very one-dimensional passing game, and I don't see the talent on the roster to adjust. Nix doesn't like to use first round picks on guys with major character question marks. That's one of the reasons he didn't draft Floyd. Maybe that strategy costs him a talented player here and there. But it also helps him avoid a lot of busts. With McGee and Florence getting on in years, and with little young talent to replace them, the Bills clearly needed a CB. Gilmore looks like he'll fill that hole admirably. I agree the Bills need more talent at WR. Nix hasn't had the early picks necessary to fill all this team's holes; and #2 and #3 WR are holes which haven't yet gotten filled. (Unless Graham becomes a good starter.) If you want to point to missed opportunities to draft good WRs in the first round, one which comes to mind is A.J. Green. Granted, taking Green would have meant passing up Dareus; and this board would have exploded had the Bills done that. On the other hand, Green made the Pro Bowl in his rookie year, and looks like he could end up in the Hall of Fame when all is said and done. If the Bills' WR corps consisted of a guy like that as the #1, Stevie Johnson as the #2, and a speed guy like Graham as #3, it would be feared by defensive coordinators around the league. But even if the Bills had done this, they would still need a quarterback. And they would need someone to take Dareus's place on the defensive line.
todd Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 VERY interesting...... Yes, He's clearly the best QB in the NFL and we should trade our 1st round pick for him.
JESSEFEFFER Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 New England had 31st ranked defense and Green Bay was last. Is defense that important if you have a QB? Just sayin. Ranking defenses by total yards allowed is a horrible, repeat horrible, way to do it.
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